14 ms·

RIP Vile Rat, EVE Online Diplomat, IRL State Dept Rep Killed In Benghazi

539 points by HistoryInAction 14y ago

Gamefoo 14y ago
Aweful, just aweful. May he rest in peace.
malloreon 14y ago
SA mod too, all around nice guy.
- warmwaffles 14y ago
  I remember playing Eve with him three years go. Crazy this happened
- flomo 14y ago
  Didn't know him personally at all, but I thought he had done excellent work in what must be one of the hardest jobs on the internet; voluntarily moderating a political forum. Soar in the wild blue yonder, Vilerat.
- creamyhorror 14y ago
  I don't remember why anymore but I always had a good impression of Vile Rat through his forum posts (been a long time since I was in GF). His skills, attitude, and achievements, in both the realms of politics and hilarity, made an impression on me. It's a sad, sad day. RIP VR. Our memories will preserve your legacy. GF, keep shooting blues forever.
jeremyrwelch 14y ago
Strange times we live in. Blessed to be able to learn from and interact with amazing souls, no matter where they are in the physical world. RIP.
agpen 14y ago
Couldn't have happened to a nicer racist apologist for imperialism. RIP Viletat
- agpen 14y ago
  Africa would have been subjected to a bloodbath of proportions unseen in history if the white man hadn't destroyed their culture first. Examples I point to are as follows - The Zulu nation was happily destroying not only all of it's neighbors, but many of their own people as the leadership happened to be certifiably insane. Shaka for example had a small penis (actually historically accurate) and killed thousands of people because of it. The zulu empire was actually not the bad one as the Matabele under Mzilikali after his loss to the zulu, took his tribe and conducted a scorched earth campaign across the lower section of africa destroying all in his path. Lets not forget the laughable Xhosa girl Nongqawuse who said she saw visions that if everybody killed off their cattle and burned their fields the dead spirits of their ancestors would grant not only tenfold cattle in return, but destruction of the new white Anglo/Boer civilization in the southern cape. Needless to say after they slaughtered and burned everything no ancestors were forthcoming and 25 thousand of the Xhosa tribe died. The tribes of africa were largely barbaric and vicious groups of people who really only understood killing for the most part. There were exceptions to the rule as there always are, the hottentots, and various smaller tribes, but for the most part african culture was set up to destroy other cultures to begin with. I'm not going to say that they are better off having been colonized by the europeans, but the alternative was pretty vicious as well.
  - kyboren 14y ago
    I'm sorry, but this is largely irrelevant. There's a reason North Africa is usually included as the latter part of, "Middle East and North Africa".
  - paulerdos 14y ago
    Wow. Utter disbelief. A foreign more technologically advanced people came in with weapons and technologies that were basically magic to these hunter gather/pastoral people. These people took up a last ditch desperate idea rather than submitting to the holocaust by the Voortrekkers of the Dutch. "The tribes of africa were largely barbaric and vicious" The incoming Dutch tribes were vastly more barbaric and vicious despite having had a 400 year head start and education and technology. Tag on to that the subsequent Anglo-Boer war which Boers still describe as their holocaust and you can't distinguish between any of these tribes. Humans are just a nasty evil species when they agglomerate.
gitarr 14y ago
Religion is the root of all evil. There is no logic to acts like this. These are people riled up by their upbringings and brainwashing in religious circumstances. Whenever I hear people taking about their imaginary friends all the time I get very cautious around them. It's sad that they always have to bring down good people, who just want to live their lives in peace.
- sukuriant 14y ago
  In many cases, I suppose you might be correct; but, religion is often just a crutch or reason for people to get behind some very ... dedicated? evil? twisted? sociopathic? person's plans and do terrible things. I downvoted you because religion is not the root of all evil, it's just a visible source of some of the evils in this world. But not all. Rest in Peace, VileRat. You were called out of this world sooner than any of us expected or wanted...
  - gitarr 14y ago
    "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." --Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999
    - rosser 14y ago
      That's very pithy, but it's patently false. It doesn't take religion to make "good" people do "bad" things. It just takes an authority figure.
      - CamperBob2 14y ago
        It doesn't take religion to make "good" people do "bad" things. It just takes an authority figure. Exactly (see my other comment in response to yours). If you're a wannabe authority figure with grand ambitions but no sound arguments, what's your next step? You either invent a God, claim the favor of an existing one, or (in the case of the Communist personality cultists) become one yourself. When someone like me says that they "hate religion", what we are really saying is that we hate this process, and wish it would stop working so well.
ddfisher 14y ago
Terrible. RIP. :( What can we do to stop things like this from happening again? There's clearly no quick-fix overnight solution, but there should be some set of actions we can take to slowly reduce/eventually eliminate this kind of violence. Any ideas?
- bishnu 14y ago
  Build good schools. Send people to them.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
    - willvarfar 14y ago
      Come on, one-liners are fine. There is correlation between education and happiness and world well-being. Hans Rosling has plenty of great talks on TED about it. No-one can say his analysis is shallow. What is interesting though is that Egypt and especially Tunisia did invest heavily in education. The result is countries with highly-educated under-employed generation and, eventually, peaceful(ish) revolution. In a global Adam-Smith scheme of things, what can a country like Egypt or Tunisia export? Where can jobs come from?
      - Evbn 14y ago
        They could export microchips and software, like Israel does.
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  Fight religious extremism in all its forms. Let it be known that, as a civilized people, we will not tolerate the barbaric intrusions of emotionally and intellectually stunted children who can be whipped into a murderous frenzy by some priest or imam prattling on about God. Their "culture", such as it is, is simply incompatible with ours, and ours must win. This is why the isolationists and non-interventionists are so gravely mistaken, and why the homicidal infants have a leg up in this fight: the latter understand that this is a war of cultures, and that only one will survive. They've already infiltrated Europe and demanded their right to Sharia law, their right to blow up embassies because of cartoons or, as in this case, movies, their right to bomb subways. If we are to preserve the Enlightenment values that have raised humanity out of the dark ages and so improved our lot in life, if we are to continue to progress as a species, then we must be willing to fight for what we believe. We will not win this battle with diplomacy; our enemy has no desire for it. We must stamp out the medieval death cults that threaten us, and this will require force. We didn't start this fight, and let no liberal or pacifist tell you that the suicide bombings and attacks on liberty are the result of our foreign policy; they are not. They are the result of the inherent incompatibility of freedom and fundamentalism. Freedom isn't free, and if we aren't willing to fight to preserve our liberty, then we will deservedly lose it.
Zenst 14y ago
RIP Sean.
martindale 14y ago
There's a mass rename of a great number of "outposts" in the game to honor Vile Rat: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes
seagreen 14y ago
"If you play this stupid game, you may not realize it, but you play in a galaxy created in large part by Vile Rat’s talent as a diplomat. No one focused as relentlessly on using diplomacy as a strategic tool as VR. Mercenary Coalition flipped sides in the Great War in large part because of Vile Rat’s influence, and if that hadn’t happened GSF probably would have never taken out BoB." Sounds like a man who was good at his job. I feel a lot better about the State Department knowing they hire people like this. The comments say he had a family, I hope they're taken care of. RIP.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
timee 14y ago
I was on the other side of the war when Lokta Volterra was swept away and saw the carefully placed agents disrupt and cripple the defense and organization. Those events pretty much killed EVE for me as I lost everything in the game and had no desire to rebuild. Looking back 6 years later, it's fascinating how we touch each others lives through these communities. While I never knew VR, I can't help but to feel connected to this State Dept official in Libya. RIP.
krobertson 14y ago
RIP Vile Rat. I didn't know him, but as an Eve player I've felt the impact of his influences there. Didn't expect to see this on HN. Interesting the differences in comments between here and /r/eve.
jcurbo 14y ago
RIP Vile Rat. I didn't know him personally but I feel like I did, through being an SA forums member and playing Eve Online in Goonfleet for many years. He was a moderator on SA and well known for being a great, helpful guy. Truly a sad day.
- Ntrails 14y ago
  He was a bad mod, with an awful tattoo. He was exceptionally good at eve online diplomacy. The point is not that he was a unique and amazing human being without fault, but that he was our human being and he's gone. Over a shitty video that no one sane thinks is relevant or impressive. Rest in peace.
  - jarin 14y ago
    RIP Vile Tat. That tattoo was truly something awful.
jahmed 14y ago
Theres something missing from this all. (12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures This is Sept 11, 2012. This (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108...) article updated at 7:02(GMT?) reports the death. The video in that story was uploaded to youtube by Al Jazzera 9 hours ago which would be midnight Bengazhi time (EET) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcm_Ss0ExZg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcm_Ss0ExZg. So at some point roughly after 00:00 EET when the Al Jazeera footage was shot, where we see what is described as 1500 protesters and thousands of riot police, and 7:00 EET an American IT worker is shot and killed in a consulate. I don't see who gains from staging protests on a sensitive day and letting an American get killed. Of all the people who would be at a consulate the IT guy happens to be the unlucky one. I don't think this was a 'normal' protest.
- Steko 14y ago
  "I don't see who gains from staging protests on a sensitive day" Did you miss that the protests were a reaction to an incendiary anti-Islamic video?
  - HistoryInAction 14y ago
    Yet that video was released in July: http://www.newsy.com/videos/american-killed-in-libya-amid-protests-over-anti-islam-movie http://www.newsy.com/videos/american-killed-in-libya-amid-pr...
  - jahmed 14y ago
    Yeah so the NYT says an Israeli-American named Sam Bacile raises funds and directs an anti-Islam movie and posts the trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4&feature=youtu.be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4&feature=youtu...) on July 2. The first Arabic comments are from 2 months ago. 11k views and 2 months later protests erupt at the American embassy in Cairo and consulate in Benghazi. Edit: Video has been pulled from youtube but the account(http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4DjVszAn4GAyzgsjtkJONg http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4DjVszAn4GAyzgsjtkJONg) it was uploaded by links(ed) to this google+ account (https://plus.google.com/u/0/100558867757140477111/posts https://plus.google.com/u/0/100558867757140477111/posts) of Sam Bacile who has one person in his circle. This man (https://plus.google.com/u/0/110003734376972911289/posts https://plus.google.com/u/0/110003734376972911289/posts) Mohamed Hamed El-Sherbini according to his g+ works for something called the Arab Parliamentary newspaper and attended Mansoura University.
sanswork 14y ago
I'm an Eve player. I'm a TEST member so for quite a while I've been an allie to the alliance he was a member of but thats not why I know him. I knew VR because he was one of the most well know and well respected diplomats in the complex and amazing game of eve. For those that don't play the game you have allies(who are called blues) and enemies(reds), and neutrals(greys) TEST(reddit) and Goons(SomethingAwful) always would joke about their ability to shoot blues(allies) for fun. But it would always require a trip to Vile Rat to sort it out. I didn't know the man personally but I have respected him for a long time in a game that I really enjoy and from that I honestly feel personally connected to him. I have a lot of friends in this game who actually are personally connected to him. Eve is fun, eve is empires with consequences, eve is taking a risk and losing it all. Something I think the traditional HN crowd would enjoy. RIP Sean And condolences to your family and your many friends around the world and all the people that have seen your messages, watched your diplomacy and looked up to your lead. EDIT: for people up voting me for this. I appreciate the thought but I don't feel comfortable collecting virtual points for this. Instead of an up vote please just post a reply.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  EDIT: for people up voting me for this. I appreciate the thought but I don't feel comfortable collecting virtual points for this. Instead of an up vote please just post a reply. In addition to showing agreement or appreciation, people may be upvoting to push the flamewar threads further down the page.
  - sanswork 14y ago
    I am thankful that the first time reading this post I missed them. Vile Rat was a leader in an alliance in a game that was disliked by a lot of people. But even the alliances currently at war with his in game could take a minute to show appreciation for the man he was. He was a good man. Wars, religious freedoms, whatever don't matter. What matters is that a guy who volunteered to work in the conditions he did from a sweet(and safe) job in the Hague died today. While trying to help a country. I appreciate needless flamewars being buried. Since I can't stop the up votes I will give $10 for every one up to 3 that I receive to the family. And a further donation of $970 for everyone removing the distraction from this thread.
flexd 14y ago
A major norwegian newspaper just published a picture on their front page of someone being dragged out of there. I am not going to link it because nobody should have to see that. Especially not anybody who knew him. Every picture that could mean someone is identified is usually blurred out before being published, but not today apparently. Seeing the picture made me feel sick and disgusted with how the media operates. I did not know Sean but as an former EVE player I have heard of him. My thoughts go out to his family and loved ones, and to those of you that knew him. I am truly sorry for your loss. :( RIP Sean
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  Reports are that was the ambassador, who is now also reported as having been killed in the attack.
  - Udo 14y ago
    Comparing the stock photo of the ambassador with the picture of the man being evacuated from the burning building suggests that it was indeed Christopher Stevens, who later died of smoke inhalation.
    - waterlesscloud 14y ago
      You think the photo is of someone trying to help him? Hmmm. Could be. Hadn't seen it that way at first.
      - Udo 14y ago
        I think so, yes. They really don't look like an angry chanting mob to me. Besides, it's also a good default assumption before jumping to any conclusions.
dbcooper 14y ago
And now the US ambassador to Libya has been killed. Another successful foreign intervention ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19570254 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19570254
Gilly_LDN 14y ago
RIP Fella. Saw it on the news and thought it was a dick-move by the Libyans to burn the Consulate.
Udo 14y ago
He was also a moderator at SomethingAwful.com. Here's the thread about his passing: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506424&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=350... Corresponding Middle East thread (go to last page for coverage of the incident): http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3390388 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=339... There is an article in Eurogamer about him: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-12-us-official-killed-in-syria-was-a-senior-eve-online-player http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-12-us-official-kil...
batista 14y ago
I was saying back in the day in another HN post that the so called Libyan "protesters" were a bunch of crooks and mercenaries picked up and supported to topple Khadaffi. The Libyan case had nothing like the _real_ popular protest in Algeria, Egypt etc. Why? Because Libya was stable under Khadaffi (as stable as those kind of places get) and people had it relatively very good. And yet he was portrayed like some Dr. Evil plotting to takeover the world, so that the western masses will cheer when he got toppled and foreign interests get the oil and natural resources. And the very thing was hailed as a "triumph of democracy" etc (what a democracy, when foreign leaders cheer when an adversary is beaten to a pulp -- gone are the days when even Nazi generals were treated with respect by the western officers when captured). Well, it didn't last long, now, as predicted, Libya will get to be another unstable, civil-war, dogmatic islam nightmarish country.
- Shivetya 14y ago
  The unfortunate truth is that some of these dictators and their military was all that was keeping their countries from turning into bastions of religious intolerance. To a zealot anything is an offense and any offense is an excuse. Egypt isn't exactly improving, if anything they are moving backwards at the hands of religious zealots. Algeria is in a better state as its government is still in place.
  - mcantelon 14y ago
    Yeah, Libya under Qadafi had the highest human development index rating in Africa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... Iran ended up going Islamist after a monarchy installed by the US and Britain, unseating a democratically elected government, failed. Hopefully Libya won't go that way, but wouldn't be that surprising.
- mladenkovacevic 14y ago
  What I find hardest to accept is how readily the US and its NATO pets, with all their intel, will accept and propagate the "popular uprising turned freedom fighters" narrative. Also how fervently and without a shred of doubt our news sources will drill that narrative into its viewers so that in your own social circles you're damn near proclaimed a heretic if you cast some doubt on the plot. The whole thing stinks to high heavens.
Pongo_the_Great 14y ago
As an aside ~ I find it an interesting convergence of 'our future' that the man used social engineering / diplomacy / subterfuge to excel in the most cut-throat and blood-thirsty game on the market, where sociopathic tendencies are often required to 'win'. Oh, and he played EvE well, apparently. [He "worked IT" for an embassy in a war zone, and modelled complex 'interpersonal' relations in a vast virtual world. We've come a long way from Pong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loren_Carpenter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loren_Carpenter]
- Pongo_the_Great 14y ago
 For reference for the negative score ~ " . " is a common mark of respect, denoting a loss. I see it was removed / formatted out. (Original comment started with " . " one line). Are we to Ignore the fact that it's commonly known that the higher levels of playing EvE are notorious for ruthless / sociopathic behaviours, and that praising his on-line skills might have irony to it? I'm not sure being remembered as "that total bastard from GoonSquad" is expressing quite what you all intend. [Out of Thread] [.]
lflux 14y ago
Statement from Secretary of State: http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/09/197630.htm http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/09/197630.htm
activedecay 14y ago
A massive number of stations are changing their names in memorandum - http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes
rdl 14y ago
This is really sad (I remember trying to play EVE from Baghdad, but the latency made combat really painful, so instead I just read kindle books...). I wish DoS had more "continuous" force protection levels; they seem to go from ~nothing (relying on host nation) to absurd overkill, with nothing in between, unlike DoD and others who have multiple levels.
- ak217 14y ago
  >I wish DoS had more "continuous" force protection levels I imagine they will, now. I think State's head of diplomatic security hasn't been doing his job very well...
  - rdl 14y ago
    What happened was they never had staffing appropriate to the mission, so they switched to using contractors for PSD (far more than DoD ever did; for DoD, contractors were support and logistics and low-level on base security). The triple worldwide security contract (Blackwater, DynCorp, Triple Canopy) seemed ok, but then there were political/PR issues with Blackwater.
- toyg 14y ago
  Considering the new US embassy in London (special relationship! BFF!) will have a frigging moat, I think they try too hard most of the time. It's actually ridiculous how they got caught out so badly in such an unstable country. Surely you wouldn't rely on "New Libya" military to buy you a packet of crisps...
  - rdl 14y ago
    They try too hard in places which are permissive, and have no real idea how to operate in non-permissive environments (Libya!). Semi-permissive they also don't do well (if you built a 30 year building, Yemen was semi-permissive back in the day, but is now someplace I'd define as non-permissive for US forces). If London ever gets to the point of needing a moat to defend the US embassy, we're pretty screwed overall. Part of this is hiding CIA crap in the embassy, but a lot of it is just ego and committee rule (no one gets fired for adding security features...)
adamgray 14y ago
RIP Sean I had the joy of talking with him often in EVE / on Jabber and will never forget the fun we had together.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- ck2 14y ago
  You really think those people are representative of all their country? Or rather a tiny extreme minority? It's more like the bigoted rednecks of the USA vs the bigoted rednecks of the middle-east, taking potshots at each other, making victims of us all.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
    - knowtheory 14y ago
      Come off of it. If you want to blame someone for something, blame the US for not having adequately protected their diplomats. That there are armed groups looking to cause trouble, or that the police there are too cowardly to do their duty is not Obama's or the US's fault.
- krschultz 14y ago
  Politics like this has no place on HN. Some politics can get through, but it has to have at least some point to it.
Evbn 14y ago
Translat title to English, please.
- iy56 14y ago
  Rest in peace, "Vile Rat", a virtual diplomat in the game EVE Online, and in real life, a State Department representative killed in Benghazi
rbanffy 14y ago
Positive violence feedback loop. Nothing good will ever come out of one.
gdc 14y ago
Former player here. A huge loss for everyone, in game and out. Religion poisons everything.

Gamefoo 14y ago

Aweful, just aweful. May he rest in peace.

malloreon 14y ago

SA mod too, all around nice guy.

warmwaffles 14y ago
I remember playing Eve with him three years go. Crazy this happened
flomo 14y ago
Didn't know him personally at all, but I thought he had done excellent work in what must be one of the hardest jobs on the internet; voluntarily moderating a political forum. Soar in the wild blue yonder, Vilerat.
creamyhorror 14y ago
I don't remember why anymore but I always had a good impression of Vile Rat through his forum posts (been a long time since I was in GF). His skills, attitude, and achievements, in both the realms of politics and hilarity, made an impression on me. It's a sad, sad day. RIP VR. Our memories will preserve your legacy. GF, keep shooting blues forever.

jeremyrwelch 14y ago

Strange times we live in. Blessed to be able to learn from and interact with amazing souls, no matter where they are in the physical world. RIP.

agpen 14y ago

Couldn't have happened to a nicer racist apologist for imperialism. RIP Viletat

agpen 14y ago
Africa would have been subjected to a bloodbath of proportions unseen in history if the white man hadn't destroyed their culture first. Examples I point to are as follows - The Zulu nation was happily destroying not only all of it's neighbors, but many of their own people as the leadership happened to be certifiably insane. Shaka for example had a small penis (actually historically accurate) and killed thousands of people because of it. The zulu empire was actually not the bad one as the Matabele under Mzilikali after his loss to the zulu, took his tribe and conducted a scorched earth campaign across the lower section of africa destroying all in his path. Lets not forget the laughable Xhosa girl Nongqawuse who said she saw visions that if everybody killed off their cattle and burned their fields the dead spirits of their ancestors would grant not only tenfold cattle in return, but destruction of the new white Anglo/Boer civilization in the southern cape. Needless to say after they slaughtered and burned everything no ancestors were forthcoming and 25 thousand of the Xhosa tribe died. The tribes of africa were largely barbaric and vicious groups of people who really only understood killing for the most part. There were exceptions to the rule as there always are, the hottentots, and various smaller tribes, but for the most part african culture was set up to destroy other cultures to begin with. I'm not going to say that they are better off having been colonized by the europeans, but the alternative was pretty vicious as well.
- kyboren 14y ago
  I'm sorry, but this is largely irrelevant. There's a reason North Africa is usually included as the latter part of, "Middle East and North Africa".
- paulerdos 14y ago
  Wow. Utter disbelief. A foreign more technologically advanced people came in with weapons and technologies that were basically magic to these hunter gather/pastoral people. These people took up a last ditch desperate idea rather than submitting to the holocaust by the Voortrekkers of the Dutch. "The tribes of africa were largely barbaric and vicious" The incoming Dutch tribes were vastly more barbaric and vicious despite having had a 400 year head start and education and technology. Tag on to that the subsequent Anglo-Boer war which Boers still describe as their holocaust and you can't distinguish between any of these tribes. Humans are just a nasty evil species when they agglomerate.

gitarr 14y ago

Religion is the root of all evil. There is no logic to acts like this. These are people riled up by their upbringings and brainwashing in religious circumstances. Whenever I hear people taking about their imaginary friends all the time I get very cautious around them. It's sad that they always have to bring down good people, who just want to live their lives in peace.

sukuriant 14y ago
In many cases, I suppose you might be correct; but, religion is often just a crutch or reason for people to get behind some very ... dedicated? evil? twisted? sociopathic? person's plans and do terrible things. I downvoted you because religion is not the root of all evil, it's just a visible source of some of the evils in this world. But not all. Rest in Peace, VileRat. You were called out of this world sooner than any of us expected or wanted...
- gitarr 14y ago
  "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." --Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999
  - rosser 14y ago
    That's very pithy, but it's patently false. It doesn't take religion to make "good" people do "bad" things. It just takes an authority figure.
    - CamperBob2 14y ago
      It doesn't take religion to make "good" people do "bad" things. It just takes an authority figure. Exactly (see my other comment in response to yours). If you're a wannabe authority figure with grand ambitions but no sound arguments, what's your next step? You either invent a God, claim the favor of an existing one, or (in the case of the Communist personality cultists) become one yourself. When someone like me says that they "hate religion", what we are really saying is that we hate this process, and wish it would stop working so well.

ddfisher 14y ago

Terrible. RIP. :( What can we do to stop things like this from happening again? There's clearly no quick-fix overnight solution, but there should be some set of actions we can take to slowly reduce/eventually eliminate this kind of violence. Any ideas?

bishnu 14y ago
Build good schools. Send people to them.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - willvarfar 14y ago
    Come on, one-liners are fine. There is correlation between education and happiness and world well-being. Hans Rosling has plenty of great talks on TED about it. No-one can say his analysis is shallow. What is interesting though is that Egypt and especially Tunisia did invest heavily in education. The result is countries with highly-educated under-employed generation and, eventually, peaceful(ish) revolution. In a global Adam-Smith scheme of things, what can a country like Egypt or Tunisia export? Where can jobs come from?
    - Evbn 14y ago
      They could export microchips and software, like Israel does.
redthrowaway 14y ago
Fight religious extremism in all its forms. Let it be known that, as a civilized people, we will not tolerate the barbaric intrusions of emotionally and intellectually stunted children who can be whipped into a murderous frenzy by some priest or imam prattling on about God. Their "culture", such as it is, is simply incompatible with ours, and ours must win. This is why the isolationists and non-interventionists are so gravely mistaken, and why the homicidal infants have a leg up in this fight: the latter understand that this is a war of cultures, and that only one will survive. They've already infiltrated Europe and demanded their right to Sharia law, their right to blow up embassies because of cartoons or, as in this case, movies, their right to bomb subways. If we are to preserve the Enlightenment values that have raised humanity out of the dark ages and so improved our lot in life, if we are to continue to progress as a species, then we must be willing to fight for what we believe. We will not win this battle with diplomacy; our enemy has no desire for it. We must stamp out the medieval death cults that threaten us, and this will require force. We didn't start this fight, and let no liberal or pacifist tell you that the suicide bombings and attacks on liberty are the result of our foreign policy; they are not. They are the result of the inherent incompatibility of freedom and fundamentalism. Freedom isn't free, and if we aren't willing to fight to preserve our liberty, then we will deservedly lose it.

Zenst 14y ago

RIP Sean.

martindale 14y ago

There's a mass rename of a great number of "outposts" in the game to honor Vile Rat: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes

seagreen 14y ago

"If you play this stupid game, you may not realize it, but you play in a galaxy created in large part by Vile Rat’s talent as a diplomat. No one focused as relentlessly on using diplomacy as a strategic tool as VR. Mercenary Coalition flipped sides in the Great War in large part because of Vile Rat’s influence, and if that hadn’t happened GSF probably would have never taken out BoB." Sounds like a man who was good at his job. I feel a lot better about the State Department knowing they hire people like this. The comments say he had a family, I hope they're taken care of. RIP.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

timee 14y ago

I was on the other side of the war when Lokta Volterra was swept away and saw the carefully placed agents disrupt and cripple the defense and organization. Those events pretty much killed EVE for me as I lost everything in the game and had no desire to rebuild. Looking back 6 years later, it's fascinating how we touch each others lives through these communities. While I never knew VR, I can't help but to feel connected to this State Dept official in Libya. RIP.

krobertson 14y ago

RIP Vile Rat. I didn't know him, but as an Eve player I've felt the impact of his influences there. Didn't expect to see this on HN. Interesting the differences in comments between here and /r/eve.

jcurbo 14y ago

RIP Vile Rat. I didn't know him personally but I feel like I did, through being an SA forums member and playing Eve Online in Goonfleet for many years. He was a moderator on SA and well known for being a great, helpful guy. Truly a sad day.

Ntrails 14y ago
He was a bad mod, with an awful tattoo. He was exceptionally good at eve online diplomacy. The point is not that he was a unique and amazing human being without fault, but that he was our human being and he's gone. Over a shitty video that no one sane thinks is relevant or impressive. Rest in peace.
- jarin 14y ago
  RIP Vile Tat. That tattoo was truly something awful.

jahmed 14y ago

Theres something missing from this all. (12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures This is Sept 11, 2012. This (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108...) article updated at 7:02(GMT?) reports the death. The video in that story was uploaded to youtube by Al Jazzera 9 hours ago which would be midnight Bengazhi time (EET) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcm_Ss0ExZg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcm_Ss0ExZg. So at some point roughly after 00:00 EET when the Al Jazeera footage was shot, where we see what is described as 1500 protesters and thousands of riot police, and 7:00 EET an American IT worker is shot and killed in a consulate. I don't see who gains from staging protests on a sensitive day and letting an American get killed. Of all the people who would be at a consulate the IT guy happens to be the unlucky one. I don't think this was a 'normal' protest.

Steko 14y ago
"I don't see who gains from staging protests on a sensitive day" Did you miss that the protests were a reaction to an incendiary anti-Islamic video?
- HistoryInAction 14y ago
  Yet that video was released in July: http://www.newsy.com/videos/american-killed-in-libya-amid-protests-over-anti-islam-movie http://www.newsy.com/videos/american-killed-in-libya-amid-pr...
- jahmed 14y ago
  Yeah so the NYT says an Israeli-American named Sam Bacile raises funds and directs an anti-Islam movie and posts the trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4&feature=youtu.be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4&feature=youtu...) on July 2. The first Arabic comments are from 2 months ago. 11k views and 2 months later protests erupt at the American embassy in Cairo and consulate in Benghazi. Edit: Video has been pulled from youtube but the account(http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4DjVszAn4GAyzgsjtkJONg http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4DjVszAn4GAyzgsjtkJONg) it was uploaded by links(ed) to this google+ account (https://plus.google.com/u/0/100558867757140477111/posts https://plus.google.com/u/0/100558867757140477111/posts) of Sam Bacile who has one person in his circle. This man (https://plus.google.com/u/0/110003734376972911289/posts https://plus.google.com/u/0/110003734376972911289/posts) Mohamed Hamed El-Sherbini according to his g+ works for something called the Arab Parliamentary newspaper and attended Mansoura University.

sanswork 14y ago

I'm an Eve player. I'm a TEST member so for quite a while I've been an allie to the alliance he was a member of but thats not why I know him. I knew VR because he was one of the most well know and well respected diplomats in the complex and amazing game of eve. For those that don't play the game you have allies(who are called blues) and enemies(reds), and neutrals(greys) TEST(reddit) and Goons(SomethingAwful) always would joke about their ability to shoot blues(allies) for fun. But it would always require a trip to Vile Rat to sort it out. I didn't know the man personally but I have respected him for a long time in a game that I really enjoy and from that I honestly feel personally connected to him. I have a lot of friends in this game who actually are personally connected to him. Eve is fun, eve is empires with consequences, eve is taking a risk and losing it all. Something I think the traditional HN crowd would enjoy. RIP Sean And condolences to your family and your many friends around the world and all the people that have seen your messages, watched your diplomacy and looked up to your lead. EDIT: for people up voting me for this. I appreciate the thought but I don't feel comfortable collecting virtual points for this. Instead of an up vote please just post a reply.

nitrogen 14y ago
EDIT: for people up voting me for this. I appreciate the thought but I don't feel comfortable collecting virtual points for this. Instead of an up vote please just post a reply. In addition to showing agreement or appreciation, people may be upvoting to push the flamewar threads further down the page.
- sanswork 14y ago
  I am thankful that the first time reading this post I missed them. Vile Rat was a leader in an alliance in a game that was disliked by a lot of people. But even the alliances currently at war with his in game could take a minute to show appreciation for the man he was. He was a good man. Wars, religious freedoms, whatever don't matter. What matters is that a guy who volunteered to work in the conditions he did from a sweet(and safe) job in the Hague died today. While trying to help a country. I appreciate needless flamewars being buried. Since I can't stop the up votes I will give $10 for every one up to 3 that I receive to the family. And a further donation of $970 for everyone removing the distraction from this thread.

flexd 14y ago

A major norwegian newspaper just published a picture on their front page of someone being dragged out of there. I am not going to link it because nobody should have to see that. Especially not anybody who knew him. Every picture that could mean someone is identified is usually blurred out before being published, but not today apparently. Seeing the picture made me feel sick and disgusted with how the media operates. I did not know Sean but as an former EVE player I have heard of him. My thoughts go out to his family and loved ones, and to those of you that knew him. I am truly sorry for your loss. :( RIP Sean

waterlesscloud 14y ago
Reports are that was the ambassador, who is now also reported as having been killed in the attack.
- Udo 14y ago
  Comparing the stock photo of the ambassador with the picture of the man being evacuated from the burning building suggests that it was indeed Christopher Stevens, who later died of smoke inhalation.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    You think the photo is of someone trying to help him? Hmmm. Could be. Hadn't seen it that way at first.
    - Udo 14y ago
      I think so, yes. They really don't look like an angry chanting mob to me. Besides, it's also a good default assumption before jumping to any conclusions.

dbcooper 14y ago

And now the US ambassador to Libya has been killed. Another successful foreign intervention ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19570254 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19570254

Gilly_LDN 14y ago

RIP Fella. Saw it on the news and thought it was a dick-move by the Libyans to burn the Consulate.

Udo 14y ago

He was also a moderator at SomethingAwful.com. Here's the thread about his passing: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506424&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=350... Corresponding Middle East thread (go to last page for coverage of the incident): http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3390388 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=339... There is an article in Eurogamer about him: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-12-us-official-killed-in-syria-was-a-senior-eve-online-player http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-12-us-official-kil...

batista 14y ago

I was saying back in the day in another HN post that the so called Libyan "protesters" were a bunch of crooks and mercenaries picked up and supported to topple Khadaffi. The Libyan case had nothing like the _real_ popular protest in Algeria, Egypt etc. Why? Because Libya was stable under Khadaffi (as stable as those kind of places get) and people had it relatively very good. And yet he was portrayed like some Dr. Evil plotting to takeover the world, so that the western masses will cheer when he got toppled and foreign interests get the oil and natural resources. And the very thing was hailed as a "triumph of democracy" etc (what a democracy, when foreign leaders cheer when an adversary is beaten to a pulp -- gone are the days when even Nazi generals were treated with respect by the western officers when captured). Well, it didn't last long, now, as predicted, Libya will get to be another unstable, civil-war, dogmatic islam nightmarish country.

Shivetya 14y ago
The unfortunate truth is that some of these dictators and their military was all that was keeping their countries from turning into bastions of religious intolerance. To a zealot anything is an offense and any offense is an excuse. Egypt isn't exactly improving, if anything they are moving backwards at the hands of religious zealots. Algeria is in a better state as its government is still in place.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  Yeah, Libya under Qadafi had the highest human development index rating in Africa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... Iran ended up going Islamist after a monarchy installed by the US and Britain, unseating a democratically elected government, failed. Hopefully Libya won't go that way, but wouldn't be that surprising.
mladenkovacevic 14y ago
What I find hardest to accept is how readily the US and its NATO pets, with all their intel, will accept and propagate the "popular uprising turned freedom fighters" narrative. Also how fervently and without a shred of doubt our news sources will drill that narrative into its viewers so that in your own social circles you're damn near proclaimed a heretic if you cast some doubt on the plot. The whole thing stinks to high heavens.

Pongo_the_Great 14y ago

As an aside ~ I find it an interesting convergence of 'our future' that the man used social engineering / diplomacy / subterfuge to excel in the most cut-throat and blood-thirsty game on the market, where sociopathic tendencies are often required to 'win'. Oh, and he played EvE well, apparently. [He "worked IT" for an embassy in a war zone, and modelled complex 'interpersonal' relations in a vast virtual world. We've come a long way from Pong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loren_Carpenter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loren_Carpenter]

Pongo_the_Great 14y ago
For reference for the negative score ~ " . " is a common mark of respect, denoting a loss. I see it was removed / formatted out. (Original comment started with " . " one line). Are we to Ignore the fact that it's commonly known that the higher levels of playing EvE are notorious for ruthless / sociopathic behaviours, and that praising his on-line skills might have irony to it? I'm not sure being remembered as "that total bastard from GoonSquad" is expressing quite what you all intend. [Out of Thread] [.]

lflux 14y ago

Statement from Secretary of State: http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/09/197630.htm http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/09/197630.htm

activedecay 14y ago

A massive number of stations are changing their names in memorandum - http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes

rdl 14y ago

This is really sad (I remember trying to play EVE from Baghdad, but the latency made combat really painful, so instead I just read kindle books...). I wish DoS had more "continuous" force protection levels; they seem to go from ~nothing (relying on host nation) to absurd overkill, with nothing in between, unlike DoD and others who have multiple levels.

ak217 14y ago
>I wish DoS had more "continuous" force protection levels I imagine they will, now. I think State's head of diplomatic security hasn't been doing his job very well...
- rdl 14y ago
  What happened was they never had staffing appropriate to the mission, so they switched to using contractors for PSD (far more than DoD ever did; for DoD, contractors were support and logistics and low-level on base security). The triple worldwide security contract (Blackwater, DynCorp, Triple Canopy) seemed ok, but then there were political/PR issues with Blackwater.
toyg 14y ago
Considering the new US embassy in London (special relationship! BFF!) will have a frigging moat, I think they try too hard most of the time. It's actually ridiculous how they got caught out so badly in such an unstable country. Surely you wouldn't rely on "New Libya" military to buy you a packet of crisps...
- rdl 14y ago
  They try too hard in places which are permissive, and have no real idea how to operate in non-permissive environments (Libya!). Semi-permissive they also don't do well (if you built a 30 year building, Yemen was semi-permissive back in the day, but is now someplace I'd define as non-permissive for US forces). If London ever gets to the point of needing a moat to defend the US embassy, we're pretty screwed overall. Part of this is hiding CIA crap in the embassy, but a lot of it is just ego and committee rule (no one gets fired for adding security features...)

adamgray 14y ago

RIP Sean I had the joy of talking with him often in EVE / on Jabber and will never forget the fun we had together.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ck2 14y ago
You really think those people are representative of all their country? Or rather a tiny extreme minority? It's more like the bigoted rednecks of the USA vs the bigoted rednecks of the middle-east, taking potshots at each other, making victims of us all.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - knowtheory 14y ago
    Come off of it. If you want to blame someone for something, blame the US for not having adequately protected their diplomats. That there are armed groups looking to cause trouble, or that the police there are too cowardly to do their duty is not Obama's or the US's fault.
krschultz 14y ago
Politics like this has no place on HN. Some politics can get through, but it has to have at least some point to it.

Evbn 14y ago

Translat title to English, please.

iy56 14y ago
Rest in peace, "Vile Rat", a virtual diplomat in the game EVE Online, and in real life, a State Department representative killed in Benghazi

rbanffy 14y ago

Positive violence feedback loop. Nothing good will ever come out of one.

gdc 14y ago

Former player here. A huge loss for everyone, in game and out. Religion poisons everything.