3 ms·

Directional what? When Chicago replaces pipes, they dig the street up, put in pipes, and lay down a new street. I’ve literally seen them do this, then one month

Directional what? When Chicago replaces pipes, they dig the street up, put in pipes, and lay down a new street. I’ve literally seen them do this, then one month later tear up the same street for a natural gas pipe project . These Chicago pipes are end of life and need replaced. They have been working on it for at least 20 years. *in theory they claim to be working hard to better coordinate this between agencies.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
https://youtu.be/jFTzwGv1sUg https://youtu.be/jFTzwGv1sUg https://youtu.be/t3hTQDfZrfk https://youtu.be/t3hTQDfZrfk https://youtu.be/BKGizzPJIqE https://youtu.be/BKGizzPJIqE https://www.leadsafechicago.org/lead-service-line-replacement https://www.leadsafechicago.org/lead-service-line-replacemen... > Replacing a lead service line with a new copper service means running the new line from the water main in the street all the way into the house. There are two ways that can be done. With open trench replacements, a trench is dug from the home through the parkway to install the new service and access the water main. Trenchless construction runs the new service to the main underground, causing less disturbance to the surrounding area. The type of procedure performed will depend on several factors specific to each replacement. https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/water/general/Engineering/WMdesignStd/CDWM_WaterSection_Standard_Notes_Info.pdf https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/water/general...
- bluGill 1y ago
  Meanwhile everyone else has moved to plastic pipes which will last longer, are cheaper, and leach no metals (microplastics don't seem to come from water lines frome what I can tell, but I'm looking for confirmation)
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Copper lasts ~20 years longer than plastic, making copper a superior choice for the longevity needed for the use case. Also, copper has anti microbial properties and rarely leaches in material quantities unless the water has a low pH.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      https://www.teppfa.eu/media/industry-studies/meta-study-100-years-of-lifetime-of-plastic-pipes/ https://www.teppfa.eu/media/industry-studies/meta-study-100-... plastic is often rated at less but that is because they don't bother to test any longer, when properly installed and used plastic should last longer than copper.
    - SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
      But has the tradeoff of using lead solder at every joint
      - frosted-flakes 1y ago
        Lead solder hasn't been used in the US since 1986, when it was banned by the Safe Drinking Water Act.
        Scoundreller 1y ago
        “Lead free” isn’t zero lead. > In 1986, Congress amended the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA), prohibiting the use of lead in pipes, and solder and flux on products used in public water systems that provide water for human consumption. Lead-free was defined as solder and flux with no more than 0.2% lead and pipes with no more than 8%. > In 2011, Congress passed the RLDWA, which revised the definition of lead free and took effect in 2013. Lead free was now defined as the lead content of the wetted surfaces of plumbing products as a weighted average of no greater than 0.25% for products that contact water intended for consumption, and 0.2% for solder and flux. https://www.workingpressuremag.com/epa-final-lead-free-ruling/ https://www.workingpressuremag.com/epa-final-lead-free-rulin... A lot of municipal water systems have done more recent (but by no means required) improvements to the water itself to “coat” the lead in supply lines. Beyond just pH control, like orthophosphate. Most just in the last decade or so. For Chicago, it’s an active project > Polyphosphate is being removed because recent studies have shown that it may negatively impact lead corrosion control. > Polyphosphate was initially added with the orthophosphate to mask discoloration of the water from metals such as iron or manganese. https://villageofalsip.org/Chicago%20Department%20of%20Water%20Management%20Treatment%20Changes%20FAQ.pdf https://villageofalsip.org/Chicago%20Department%20of%20Water...
  - coryrc 1y ago
    Contaminants can migrate from soil through plastic, which is a problem in the rust belt, but can be dealt with an aluminum barrier layer. What is harder to avoid is endocrine-disrupting plasticizers, because of regulatory capture. https://www.pe100plus.com/PE-Pipes/Technical-guidance/model/Design/water-pipe/Can-contaminants-in-the-soil-permeate-through-PE-pipe-i251.html https://www.pe100plus.com/PE-Pipes/Technical-guidance/model/...
stockresearcher 1y ago
> in theory they claim to be working hard to better coordinate this between agencies. This is true. For the private sector, it works pretty well. Road digging permits are posted on their webpage 6+ months in advance. If you see one on a section of street you planned to do work on, you are allowed to piggyback on the project and share the cost. If you don’t, you pay the entire cost. So there is huge incentive to coordinate. But city agencies? Not quite so incentivized.
- Spooky23 1y ago
  There’s lots of exceptions. The lead pipe hysteria and low pressure gas replacement is exempt from all of that. Some states are more schizophrenic than others. New York is simultaneously mandating replacement with high pressure gas mains that require biannual inspection and banning gas lines. Lead pipes are an engineering and chemistry issue. Pipes that are functioning properly don’t need replacement.
pengaru 1y ago
The Chicagoland area is constantly rebuilding the roads regardless of what the pipes are doing... when it's warm enough anyways.
quickthrowman 1y ago
They aren’t trenching through yards from the street to the house to replace water service lines, they’re digging a pit where the water main is and directional boring from the street to the house and installing a new service line in the borehole. ‘Horizontal directional drilling’ is the more technical term, directional boring is more of a trade name.

toomuchtodo 1y ago

https://youtu.be/jFTzwGv1sUg https://youtu.be/jFTzwGv1sUg https://youtu.be/t3hTQDfZrfk https://youtu.be/t3hTQDfZrfk https://youtu.be/BKGizzPJIqE https://youtu.be/BKGizzPJIqE https://www.leadsafechicago.org/lead-service-line-replacement https://www.leadsafechicago.org/lead-service-line-replacemen... > Replacing a lead service line with a new copper service means running the new line from the water main in the street all the way into the house. There are two ways that can be done. With open trench replacements, a trench is dug from the home through the parkway to install the new service and access the water main. Trenchless construction runs the new service to the main underground, causing less disturbance to the surrounding area. The type of procedure performed will depend on several factors specific to each replacement. https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/water/general/Engineering/WMdesignStd/CDWM_WaterSection_Standard_Notes_Info.pdf https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/water/general...

bluGill 1y ago
Meanwhile everyone else has moved to plastic pipes which will last longer, are cheaper, and leach no metals (microplastics don't seem to come from water lines frome what I can tell, but I'm looking for confirmation)
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Copper lasts ~20 years longer than plastic, making copper a superior choice for the longevity needed for the use case. Also, copper has anti microbial properties and rarely leaches in material quantities unless the water has a low pH.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    https://www.teppfa.eu/media/industry-studies/meta-study-100-years-of-lifetime-of-plastic-pipes/ https://www.teppfa.eu/media/industry-studies/meta-study-100-... plastic is often rated at less but that is because they don't bother to test any longer, when properly installed and used plastic should last longer than copper.
  - SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
    But has the tradeoff of using lead solder at every joint
    - frosted-flakes 1y ago
      Lead solder hasn't been used in the US since 1986, when it was banned by the Safe Drinking Water Act.
      - Scoundreller 1y ago
        “Lead free” isn’t zero lead. > In 1986, Congress amended the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA), prohibiting the use of lead in pipes, and solder and flux on products used in public water systems that provide water for human consumption. Lead-free was defined as solder and flux with no more than 0.2% lead and pipes with no more than 8%. > In 2011, Congress passed the RLDWA, which revised the definition of lead free and took effect in 2013. Lead free was now defined as the lead content of the wetted surfaces of plumbing products as a weighted average of no greater than 0.25% for products that contact water intended for consumption, and 0.2% for solder and flux. https://www.workingpressuremag.com/epa-final-lead-free-ruling/ https://www.workingpressuremag.com/epa-final-lead-free-rulin... A lot of municipal water systems have done more recent (but by no means required) improvements to the water itself to “coat” the lead in supply lines. Beyond just pH control, like orthophosphate. Most just in the last decade or so. For Chicago, it’s an active project > Polyphosphate is being removed because recent studies have shown that it may negatively impact lead corrosion control. > Polyphosphate was initially added with the orthophosphate to mask discoloration of the water from metals such as iron or manganese. https://villageofalsip.org/Chicago%20Department%20of%20Water%20Management%20Treatment%20Changes%20FAQ.pdf https://villageofalsip.org/Chicago%20Department%20of%20Water...
- coryrc 1y ago
  Contaminants can migrate from soil through plastic, which is a problem in the rust belt, but can be dealt with an aluminum barrier layer. What is harder to avoid is endocrine-disrupting plasticizers, because of regulatory capture. https://www.pe100plus.com/PE-Pipes/Technical-guidance/model/Design/water-pipe/Can-contaminants-in-the-soil-permeate-through-PE-pipe-i251.html https://www.pe100plus.com/PE-Pipes/Technical-guidance/model/...

stockresearcher 1y ago

> in theory they claim to be working hard to better coordinate this between agencies. This is true. For the private sector, it works pretty well. Road digging permits are posted on their webpage 6+ months in advance. If you see one on a section of street you planned to do work on, you are allowed to piggyback on the project and share the cost. If you don’t, you pay the entire cost. So there is huge incentive to coordinate. But city agencies? Not quite so incentivized.

Spooky23 1y ago
There’s lots of exceptions. The lead pipe hysteria and low pressure gas replacement is exempt from all of that. Some states are more schizophrenic than others. New York is simultaneously mandating replacement with high pressure gas mains that require biannual inspection and banning gas lines. Lead pipes are an engineering and chemistry issue. Pipes that are functioning properly don’t need replacement.

pengaru 1y ago

The Chicagoland area is constantly rebuilding the roads regardless of what the pipes are doing... when it's warm enough anyways.

quickthrowman 1y ago

They aren’t trenching through yards from the street to the house to replace water service lines, they’re digging a pit where the water main is and directional boring from the street to the house and installing a new service line in the borehole. ‘Horizontal directional drilling’ is the more technical term, directional boring is more of a trade name.