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Why is it weird? You install software on your computer. You install software from your app repository. You install software with your package manager. You insta

Why is it weird? You install software on your computer. You install software from your app repository. You install software with your package manager. You install software on your server. You install software on the computers you administrate. "Sideload" was always the weird, Orwellian term. (editted to add repository and package manager points)

blfr 1y ago
It's weird because "sideloading" accurately captures that you're doing something ad hoc outside of the main channel. You install software with your package manager, from the app repository, and you sideload it with `curl | bash` or manually moving an .exe/.msi/.apk. This is a fine distinction. And it will happen and should happen because there are always gaps. Without a way to fill them, you're left with a subpar experience. And while many people are fine with it on their iPhones, I can't really imagine not having ReVanced apps, Molly, or a dozen other little fixes.
- gr4vityWall 1y ago
  > "sideloading" accurately captures that you're doing something ad hoc outside of the main channel. Who gets to decide what the main channel is? For a lot of people here, F-Droid is their main way of installing programs on phones.
- superkuh 1y ago
  It's not a fine distinction. It's orwellian propaganda. Installation is the normal thing that is the status quo. Having a locked down corporation controlled system that only lets you install things they approve should be called some new word. But the only thing coming to mind personally is "dumb" or "willeventuallybackfireonyoustallation".
AJ007 1y ago
This is what bothers me about the whole "App Store" stuff with the EU. This entire fight about Apple being required to allow third party "App Stores" -- how about simply the user can load whatever software they want to on the device which they are the owner of? The amount of legalism that's been brought in by both sides, Apple/Google and the regulators, layered in lies (we need to approve the software, register the developers, to protect the user from software), is divorced from the reality of the hardware-software relationship. This has led us down a path where everyone is debating the topics that Google, Apple, and revolving door regulators choose rather than the underlying reality. There is a simple solution to all of this: Google and Apple should no longer be allowed to operate any sort of "App Store" or software distribution channel.
- kcplate 1y ago
  > There is a simple solution to all of this: Google and Apple should no longer be allowed to operate any sort of "App Store" or software distribution channel. “Simple” solutions can produce unintended outcomes. You want to take a device that is targeted for “everyone” and not just tech savvy people and provide no control or standard to what can be loaded on it? The very idea of it is horrifying to me. You have apparently never sat down on an elderly persons PC in the early ‘00s and tried to sort out all manner of shopping toolbars, coupon widgets, and crapware that has caused their pc to slow to a crawl. It’s literally bad enough with the poor performing apps in app stores but it could be so much worse without it No thanks.
  - jjani 1y ago
    Having to caveat it with "in the early '00s" already invalidates your thesis; it means we've managed to largely fix this issue on PC without resorting to giving away device ownership.
    - bartread 1y ago
      I don’t think it invalidates the argument at all. I think it’s more a reflection that people mostly use other devices, like phones and tablets, for tasks they might have used a PC for 20 years ago - at least outside an office environment. That’s not to say the PC experience hasn’t improved - certainly Windows is at least more secure - but that it’s not the only factor, and I don’t think it’s the biggest factor either. One data point for you: the last company I worked for, when I joined in 2017, already >50% of external users were accessing our service via mobile devices.
      - pharrington 1y ago
        The formfactor is the biggest, possibly only, factor. The handheld formfactor works way better for most people than a huge (or even small) stationary brick, or even a laptop.
    - kcplate 1y ago
Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago
On windows, you mostly download apps from websites and sideload them. And windows is by far the most common OS
isaacremuant 1y ago
Politician and corporations want you to not have ownership or control over your devices. Either for money or control, but they absolutely would love for things like Linux to not be possible or illegal so they can force you to watch ads and pay their next version of enshitified shit, not consume the wrong kind of news and absolutely not assemble in political opposition to their corruption. If you don't see the patterns of absolutely pathetic authoritianism, which most people cheered on during covid policies times, you're not going be very effective at opposing this crap.

blfr 1y ago

It's weird because "sideloading" accurately captures that you're doing something ad hoc outside of the main channel. You install software with your package manager, from the app repository, and you sideload it with `curl | bash` or manually moving an .exe/.msi/.apk. This is a fine distinction. And it will happen and should happen because there are always gaps. Without a way to fill them, you're left with a subpar experience. And while many people are fine with it on their iPhones, I can't really imagine not having ReVanced apps, Molly, or a dozen other little fixes.

gr4vityWall 1y ago
> "sideloading" accurately captures that you're doing something ad hoc outside of the main channel. Who gets to decide what the main channel is? For a lot of people here, F-Droid is their main way of installing programs on phones.
superkuh 1y ago
It's not a fine distinction. It's orwellian propaganda. Installation is the normal thing that is the status quo. Having a locked down corporation controlled system that only lets you install things they approve should be called some new word. But the only thing coming to mind personally is "dumb" or "willeventuallybackfireonyoustallation".

AJ007 1y ago

This is what bothers me about the whole "App Store" stuff with the EU. This entire fight about Apple being required to allow third party "App Stores" -- how about simply the user can load whatever software they want to on the device which they are the owner of? The amount of legalism that's been brought in by both sides, Apple/Google and the regulators, layered in lies (we need to approve the software, register the developers, to protect the user from software), is divorced from the reality of the hardware-software relationship. This has led us down a path where everyone is debating the topics that Google, Apple, and revolving door regulators choose rather than the underlying reality. There is a simple solution to all of this: Google and Apple should no longer be allowed to operate any sort of "App Store" or software distribution channel.

kcplate 1y ago
> There is a simple solution to all of this: Google and Apple should no longer be allowed to operate any sort of "App Store" or software distribution channel. “Simple” solutions can produce unintended outcomes. You want to take a device that is targeted for “everyone” and not just tech savvy people and provide no control or standard to what can be loaded on it? The very idea of it is horrifying to me. You have apparently never sat down on an elderly persons PC in the early ‘00s and tried to sort out all manner of shopping toolbars, coupon widgets, and crapware that has caused their pc to slow to a crawl. It’s literally bad enough with the poor performing apps in app stores but it could be so much worse without it No thanks.
- jjani 1y ago
  Having to caveat it with "in the early '00s" already invalidates your thesis; it means we've managed to largely fix this issue on PC without resorting to giving away device ownership.
  - bartread 1y ago
    I don’t think it invalidates the argument at all. I think it’s more a reflection that people mostly use other devices, like phones and tablets, for tasks they might have used a PC for 20 years ago - at least outside an office environment. That’s not to say the PC experience hasn’t improved - certainly Windows is at least more secure - but that it’s not the only factor, and I don’t think it’s the biggest factor either. One data point for you: the last company I worked for, when I joined in 2017, already >50% of external users were accessing our service via mobile devices.
    - pharrington 1y ago
      The formfactor is the biggest, possibly only, factor. The handheld formfactor works way better for most people than a huge (or even small) stationary brick, or even a laptop.
  - kcplate 1y ago

Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago

On windows, you mostly download apps from websites and sideload them. And windows is by far the most common OS

isaacremuant 1y ago

Politician and corporations want you to not have ownership or control over your devices. Either for money or control, but they absolutely would love for things like Linux to not be possible or illegal so they can force you to watch ads and pay their next version of enshitified shit, not consume the wrong kind of news and absolutely not assemble in political opposition to their corruption. If you don't see the patterns of absolutely pathetic authoritianism, which most people cheered on during covid policies times, you're not going be very effective at opposing this crap.