6 ms·

Aren't these torrent clients bad for the swarm? Requesting chunks in sequence and probably not sticking around to seed. Do they at least seed while watching?

diggan 1y ago
> Do they at least seed while watching? Considering there is a file called "verify-no-uploads.js" ((https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d19747e1b050ea5cc1d12265d5e97f7d38d7/verify-no-uploads.js https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d1974...)) in the repository, which contains "This script monitors network activity to ensure zero uploads", it seems to me like they're actively trying to just be leechers.
- owjofwjeofm 1y ago
  Isn’t piracy itself a form of leeching
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - lawlessone 1y ago
    >Isn’t piracy itself a form of leeching Actually i'm just collecting data to train an AI
    - MurkyLabs 1y ago
      well officers I see nothing illegal being done here, case closed
  - craftkiller 1y ago
    In this context the word "leeching" has a specific meaning. In bittorrent, "leeching" is downloading, "seeding" is uploading. With a normal torrent client, every download has you starting as a leecher (downloader) and becoming a seeder (uploader), but this client skips that 2nd part.
    - swinglock 1y ago
      A seeder is a peer which is serving a complete a set of all files. Peers which are not seeds also uploads, and this is not called seeding.
      - craftkiller 1y ago
        Yes, I didn't think that extra nuance would help in this situation. The person I replied to wasn't familiar with bittorrent terminology so adding in the complexity of whether or not you have the complete set of files is unnecessary for this discussion. But yes, you are correct and my statement was technically wrong/incomplete.
- Seattle3503 1y ago
  Sometimes I think private trackers are too uptight about ratios and hit-and-run rules, then I see something like this.
  - TuringTest 1y ago
    Wouldn't an app like this stop working after a few uses? As I understand, the protocol penalizes users that don't contribute to the upstream, although I never checked the details. Or do this kind of app keep changing the identity to avoid getting downgraded? Does Stremio work like this too?
    - neckro23 1y ago
      Outside of a private tracker (which takes measures to keep random untracked peers from getting on the torrent), not really. Individual seeder clients can detect bad behavior like leeching and ban by IP, but each torrent is likely to have a different seeding pool. So the penalty is mostly just on individual torrents. Of course, trying to pull something like this on a private tracker would get you banned real fast...
      - delusional 1y ago
        I was under the impression that part of what made bittorent work was that the protocol tried to estimate how much each peer is uploading moment to moment and only provide it that much data to download.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        Oh definitely not, a limit that harsh would prevent most people from getting the whole file. Uploaders get priority. But if you show up to a torrent past the initial ramp of growth there will be plenty of bandwidth to go around and you'll experience a high speed download regardless of your ratio.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  If you're not uploading, you're not infringing/pirating (in some jurisdictions).
- zolland 1y ago
  Using "Seedbox" in the name is very misleading then... I would have been excited to see a Stremio style alternative that actually downloads and seeds content for an extended period of time.
  - throwaway93876 1y ago
    > I would have been excited to see a Stremio style alternative that actually downloads and seeds content for an extended period of time That's just a standard torrent client + media player combo, isn't it?
    - rand0mx1 1y ago
      Although a standard torrent client doesn't download any file sequentially.
      - thisislife2 1y ago
        Huh? Did I misunderstand you - many torrent clients today allow you to download a file sequentially?
        Charon77 1y ago
        Maybe they're talking about prioritizing earlier "Piece"
- dullcrisp 1y ago
  This looks like it's AI coded so I wouldn't take the presence of any file in the repository to indicate anything.
- littlestymaar 1y ago
  > a file called "verify-no-uploads.js" ((https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d19747e1b050ea5cc1d12265d5e97f7d38d7/verify-no-uploads.js https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d1974...)) What the duck did I just read? 100% this was vibecoded and the author doesn't understand what they are doing…
  - fp64 1y ago
    I think you are right. At least they should document that it only works if you have netstat installed and using it on a device called "en0"
    - diggan 1y ago
      They do that implicitly in the comment above the function: > // Function to monitor network activity (macOS specific) I'm guessing all macOS computers use exactly the same NIC name, and come with netstat preinstalled?
swinglock 1y ago
If a torrent is already well seeded then downloading in random order isn't really a problem because there are already multiple complete copies out there. If it isn't, then the streaming client will likely receive less data from non-streaming peers due to the data it can offer being less rare and desirable, given several peers in the swarm downloads in sequence. That makes them all even less likely to be able to stream without pausing for buffering when there's not already a lot of capacity. So it probably works itself out alright.

diggan 1y ago

> Do they at least seed while watching? Considering there is a file called "verify-no-uploads.js" ((https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d19747e1b050ea5cc1d12265d5e97f7d38d7/verify-no-uploads.js https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d1974...)) in the repository, which contains "This script monitors network activity to ensure zero uploads", it seems to me like they're actively trying to just be leechers.

owjofwjeofm 1y ago
Isn’t piracy itself a form of leeching
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- lawlessone 1y ago
  >Isn’t piracy itself a form of leeching Actually i'm just collecting data to train an AI
  - MurkyLabs 1y ago
    well officers I see nothing illegal being done here, case closed
- craftkiller 1y ago
  In this context the word "leeching" has a specific meaning. In bittorrent, "leeching" is downloading, "seeding" is uploading. With a normal torrent client, every download has you starting as a leecher (downloader) and becoming a seeder (uploader), but this client skips that 2nd part.
  - swinglock 1y ago
    A seeder is a peer which is serving a complete a set of all files. Peers which are not seeds also uploads, and this is not called seeding.
    - craftkiller 1y ago
      Yes, I didn't think that extra nuance would help in this situation. The person I replied to wasn't familiar with bittorrent terminology so adding in the complexity of whether or not you have the complete set of files is unnecessary for this discussion. But yes, you are correct and my statement was technically wrong/incomplete.
Seattle3503 1y ago
Sometimes I think private trackers are too uptight about ratios and hit-and-run rules, then I see something like this.
- TuringTest 1y ago
  Wouldn't an app like this stop working after a few uses? As I understand, the protocol penalizes users that don't contribute to the upstream, although I never checked the details. Or do this kind of app keep changing the identity to avoid getting downgraded? Does Stremio work like this too?
  - neckro23 1y ago
    Outside of a private tracker (which takes measures to keep random untracked peers from getting on the torrent), not really. Individual seeder clients can detect bad behavior like leeching and ban by IP, but each torrent is likely to have a different seeding pool. So the penalty is mostly just on individual torrents. Of course, trying to pull something like this on a private tracker would get you banned real fast...
    - delusional 1y ago
      I was under the impression that part of what made bittorent work was that the protocol tried to estimate how much each peer is uploading moment to moment and only provide it that much data to download.
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        Oh definitely not, a limit that harsh would prevent most people from getting the whole file. Uploaders get priority. But if you show up to a torrent past the initial ramp of growth there will be plenty of bandwidth to go around and you'll experience a high speed download regardless of your ratio.
toomuchtodo 1y ago
If you're not uploading, you're not infringing/pirating (in some jurisdictions).
zolland 1y ago
Using "Seedbox" in the name is very misleading then... I would have been excited to see a Stremio style alternative that actually downloads and seeds content for an extended period of time.
- throwaway93876 1y ago
  > I would have been excited to see a Stremio style alternative that actually downloads and seeds content for an extended period of time That's just a standard torrent client + media player combo, isn't it?
  - rand0mx1 1y ago
    Although a standard torrent client doesn't download any file sequentially.
    - thisislife2 1y ago
      Huh? Did I misunderstand you - many torrent clients today allow you to download a file sequentially?
      - Charon77 1y ago
        Maybe they're talking about prioritizing earlier "Piece"
dullcrisp 1y ago
This looks like it's AI coded so I wouldn't take the presence of any file in the repository to indicate anything.
littlestymaar 1y ago
> a file called "verify-no-uploads.js" ((https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d19747e1b050ea5cc1d12265d5e97f7d38d7/verify-no-uploads.js https://github.com/hotheadhacker/seedbox-lite/blob/6a89d1974...)) What the duck did I just read? 100% this was vibecoded and the author doesn't understand what they are doing…
- fp64 1y ago
  I think you are right. At least they should document that it only works if you have netstat installed and using it on a device called "en0"
  - diggan 1y ago
    They do that implicitly in the comment above the function: > // Function to monitor network activity (macOS specific) I'm guessing all macOS computers use exactly the same NIC name, and come with netstat preinstalled?

swinglock 1y ago

If a torrent is already well seeded then downloading in random order isn't really a problem because there are already multiple complete copies out there. If it isn't, then the streaming client will likely receive less data from non-streaming peers due to the data it can offer being less rare and desirable, given several peers in the swarm downloads in sequence. That makes them all even less likely to be able to stream without pausing for buffering when there's not already a lot of capacity. So it probably works itself out alright.