4 ms·

Just opened Claude app on Mac and saw a popup asking me if it's ok to train on my chats. It's on by default. Unchecked it. I think Claude saw that OpenAI was r

Just opened Claude app on Mac and saw a popup asking me if it's ok to train on my chats. It's on by default. Unchecked it. I think Claude saw that OpenAI was reaping too much benefit from this so they decided to do it too.

demarq 1y ago
Also your chats will now be stored for 5 years.
- aurareturn 1y ago
  I used to not care about this stuff but with the way this administration is going about things, I suddenly care very much about it.
  - bayindirh 1y ago
    Trusting companies more than the government always feels strange. It's something I can't grasp.
    - demarq 1y ago
      One has next to no consequences or oversight
    - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
      Why not distrust both?! :-)
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - elzbardico 1y ago
      Trusting any of them is a luxury afforded in a short period of history in rich countries. That's why the usual ethos in places like HN of treating any doubt about government actions as lowbrow paranoid conspiracy theory stuff, is so exasperating, for those of us who came from either the former soviet bloc or third world nations.
      - 6510 1y ago
        Someone who use to live in a dictatorship told me there is one advantage to living under a dictator: No one believes what is said in the news or the official version of anything.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      How many companies can disappear me to El Salvador?
      - giraffe_lady 1y ago
        Well relatedly I think several of the tech billionaires considered this question and decided the answer was "not enough."
      - sillyfluke 1y ago
        "US Army appoints Palantir, Meta, OpenAI execs as Lt. Colonels" [0] Well, probably easier than you think. Given that it looks like Palantir is able to control the software and hardware of the new fangled detention centers with immunity, how difficult do you think it is for them to disappear someone without any accountability? It is precisely the blurring of the line between gov and private companies that aid in subverting the rule of law in many instances. [0] https://thegrayzone.com/2025/06/18/palantir-execs-appointed-colonels/ https://thegrayzone.com/2025/06/18/palantir-execs-appointed-...
        AlecSchueler 1y ago
        Oh I have no doubt those lines are becoming more and more blurred and that certain big companies in key positions are theoretically beyond accountability. But the question was "why trust a company and not the government?" So even now it's between: * A company who, if big enough and in a key position, could theoretically do this And * A government who we know for sure have grabbed multiple people off the streets, within the past month, and have trafficked them out of the country without any due process. So it's still "could maybe do harm" versus "already controls an army of masked men who are undeniably active in doing harm."
        sillyfluke 1y ago
        >But the question was "why trust a company and not the government?" The post you were replying to simply said the behavior of this administration made them care more about this issue, not that they trusted companies more than the government. That statement is not even implied in anyway in the comment you responded to? The fact is whereas in the past it would be expected that the government could regulate the brutal and illegal overreaches of private companies, giving military rank to private companies execs makes that even less likely. The original comment is alluding to a simpler point: A government that gives blank checks to private companies in military and security matters is much worse than one that doesn't.
    - slipperydippery 1y ago
      I don’t get drawing a distinction. If a company has it, there’s at least one government out there that either also already has it (some telecom companies just give them data portals, for example) or can any time they choose. Corporate surveillance is government surveillance. Always has been.
    - twoquestions 1y ago
      I 90% agree with you, though Apple did stand up to the FBI some years ago. The US gov't at least is much more restricted on what data it can collect and act on due to the 4th Amendment among other laws, and as another commenter said Apple can't blackbag me to El Salvador. Apple/FBI story in question: https://apnews.com/general-news-c8469b05ac1b4092b7690d36f3409a4a https://apnews.com/general-news-c8469b05ac1b4092b7690d36f340...
      - bayindirh 1y ago
        Apple is an exception, and even that is debatable because of the unencrypted backups they store. On the other hand, what Apple did is a tangible thing and is a result. This gives them better optics for now, but there is no law says that they can't change. Their business model is being an "accessible luxury brand with the privacy guarantee of Switzerland as the laws allow". So, as another argument, they have to do this.
    - sokoloff 1y ago
      The government has the direct power to imprison me or seize my property if cross them. It seems strange to not be able to grasp the difference in kind here.
      - bayindirh 1y ago
        What happens if your Google account is locked out because you shared your son's pictures to his M.D. because of an ongoing treatment? What happens the same company locks all your book drafts because an algorithm deemed that you're plotting something against someone? Both are real events, BTW.
        sokoloff 1y ago
        I think I missed the part where Google imprisoned someone. The government forces me to do business with them; if I don't pay them tens (and others hundreds) of thousands of dollars every year they will send people with guns to imprison me and eventually other people with guns to seize my property. Me willingly giving Google some data and them capriciously deciding to not always give it back doesn't seem anything like the same to me. (It doesn't mean I like what Google's doing, but they have nowhere near the power of the group that legally owns and uses tanks.)
        bayindirh 1y ago
        Their life effectively stopped since they are locked out of everything, forever. Not forgetting that the first guy's son's pictures are ended in a CSAM database and he lost his account permanently, and Google didn't give his account back [0]. A company "applied what the law said", and refused that they made a mistake and overreached. Which is generally attributed to governments. So, I you missed the effects of this little binary flag on their life. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google-csam-account-blocked https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google-cs...
        sokoloff 1y ago
        > Their life effectively stopped since they are locked out of everything What?! Google locked them out of Google. I'm sure they can still get search, email, and cloud services from many other providers. The government can lock you away in a way that is far more impactful and much closer to "life stopped; locked out of everything" than "you can't have the data you gave us back".
  - demarq 1y ago
    It’s more that five years worth of peoples most personal conversations is an absolute treasure trove and makes their systems much more inviting for hackers and yes governments. The part that irks me is that this includes people who are literally paying for the service.
- OtherShrezzing 1y ago
  And there's no way to opt-out of the training, without agreeing to the 5 year retention. Anthropic has slipped so far and fast from its objective of being the ethical AI company.
  - smca 1y ago
    > If you do not choose to provide your data for model training, you’ll continue with our existing 30-day data retention period. https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms
staticman2 1y ago
Given how competitive Claude has been with ChatGPT models without training on users I'm curious how useful OpenAI could have found it.
echelon 1y ago
We should be able to train on foundation model outputs. These bastard companies pirated the world's data, then they train on our personal data. But they have the gall to say we can't save their model's inputs and outputs and distill their models.
- jacooper 1y ago
  You can, they might not like it but there's no legal basis saying you can't.
  - datadrivenangel 1y ago
    violating terms and conditions can be sufficient to be at least charged with computer abuse and fraud.
    - echelon 1y ago
      That's disgusting. We need a Galoob vs. Nintendo [1], Sony vs. Universal [2], or whatever that TiVo case was (I don't think it was TiVo vs. EchoStar). A case that establishes anyone can scrape and distill models. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_America,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nin.... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Unive....
    - jacooper 1y ago
      Scrapping is fair use.
- elzbardico 1y ago
  I am pretty sure they try to do it all the time between themselves. Most of the real sauce in AI coding comes from reinforcement learning, usually done by armies of third world outsourced developers tediously doing all kinds of tasks with instructions to detail their reasoning behind each chance. Things like: "to run this python test in a docker container with the python image we need to install the python package xyz, but then, as it has some native code, we also need to install build-essential..." While those developers are not well paid (usually around 30/40 USD hour, no benefits), you need a lot of then, so, it is a big temptation to create also as much synthetic data sets from your more capable competitor. Given the fact that AI companies have this Jihad zeal to achieve their goals no matter what (like, fuck copyright, fuck the environment, etc, etc), it would be naive to believe they don't at least try to do it. And even if they don't do it directly, their outsourced developers will do it indirectly by using AI to help with their tasks.
fusslo 1y ago
My work just signed to an enterprise agreement with anthropic. I just checked, and "Your data will not be trained on or used to improve the product. Code is stored to personalize your experience. Applies to all team members."
cowboylowrez 1y ago
I hope they didn't vibe code the popup, that could be bad if it didn't actually work.

demarq 1y ago

Also your chats will now be stored for 5 years.

aurareturn 1y ago
I used to not care about this stuff but with the way this administration is going about things, I suddenly care very much about it.
- bayindirh 1y ago
  Trusting companies more than the government always feels strange. It's something I can't grasp.
  - demarq 1y ago
    One has next to no consequences or oversight
  - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
    Why not distrust both?! :-)
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - elzbardico 1y ago
    Trusting any of them is a luxury afforded in a short period of history in rich countries. That's why the usual ethos in places like HN of treating any doubt about government actions as lowbrow paranoid conspiracy theory stuff, is so exasperating, for those of us who came from either the former soviet bloc or third world nations.
    - 6510 1y ago
      Someone who use to live in a dictatorship told me there is one advantage to living under a dictator: No one believes what is said in the news or the official version of anything.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    How many companies can disappear me to El Salvador?
    - giraffe_lady 1y ago
      Well relatedly I think several of the tech billionaires considered this question and decided the answer was "not enough."
    - sillyfluke 1y ago
      "US Army appoints Palantir, Meta, OpenAI execs as Lt. Colonels" [0] Well, probably easier than you think. Given that it looks like Palantir is able to control the software and hardware of the new fangled detention centers with immunity, how difficult do you think it is for them to disappear someone without any accountability? It is precisely the blurring of the line between gov and private companies that aid in subverting the rule of law in many instances. [0] https://thegrayzone.com/2025/06/18/palantir-execs-appointed-colonels/ https://thegrayzone.com/2025/06/18/palantir-execs-appointed-...
      - AlecSchueler 1y ago
        Oh I have no doubt those lines are becoming more and more blurred and that certain big companies in key positions are theoretically beyond accountability. But the question was "why trust a company and not the government?" So even now it's between: * A company who, if big enough and in a key position, could theoretically do this And * A government who we know for sure have grabbed multiple people off the streets, within the past month, and have trafficked them out of the country without any due process. So it's still "could maybe do harm" versus "already controls an army of masked men who are undeniably active in doing harm."
        sillyfluke 1y ago
        >But the question was "why trust a company and not the government?" The post you were replying to simply said the behavior of this administration made them care more about this issue, not that they trusted companies more than the government. That statement is not even implied in anyway in the comment you responded to? The fact is whereas in the past it would be expected that the government could regulate the brutal and illegal overreaches of private companies, giving military rank to private companies execs makes that even less likely. The original comment is alluding to a simpler point: A government that gives blank checks to private companies in military and security matters is much worse than one that doesn't.
  - slipperydippery 1y ago
    I don’t get drawing a distinction. If a company has it, there’s at least one government out there that either also already has it (some telecom companies just give them data portals, for example) or can any time they choose. Corporate surveillance is government surveillance. Always has been.
  - twoquestions 1y ago
    I 90% agree with you, though Apple did stand up to the FBI some years ago. The US gov't at least is much more restricted on what data it can collect and act on due to the 4th Amendment among other laws, and as another commenter said Apple can't blackbag me to El Salvador. Apple/FBI story in question: https://apnews.com/general-news-c8469b05ac1b4092b7690d36f3409a4a https://apnews.com/general-news-c8469b05ac1b4092b7690d36f340...
    - bayindirh 1y ago
      Apple is an exception, and even that is debatable because of the unencrypted backups they store. On the other hand, what Apple did is a tangible thing and is a result. This gives them better optics for now, but there is no law says that they can't change. Their business model is being an "accessible luxury brand with the privacy guarantee of Switzerland as the laws allow". So, as another argument, they have to do this.
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    The government has the direct power to imprison me or seize my property if cross them. It seems strange to not be able to grasp the difference in kind here.
    - bayindirh 1y ago
      What happens if your Google account is locked out because you shared your son's pictures to his M.D. because of an ongoing treatment? What happens the same company locks all your book drafts because an algorithm deemed that you're plotting something against someone? Both are real events, BTW.
      - sokoloff 1y ago
        I think I missed the part where Google imprisoned someone. The government forces me to do business with them; if I don't pay them tens (and others hundreds) of thousands of dollars every year they will send people with guns to imprison me and eventually other people with guns to seize my property. Me willingly giving Google some data and them capriciously deciding to not always give it back doesn't seem anything like the same to me. (It doesn't mean I like what Google's doing, but they have nowhere near the power of the group that legally owns and uses tanks.)
        bayindirh 1y ago
        Their life effectively stopped since they are locked out of everything, forever. Not forgetting that the first guy's son's pictures are ended in a CSAM database and he lost his account permanently, and Google didn't give his account back [0]. A company "applied what the law said", and refused that they made a mistake and overreached. Which is generally attributed to governments. So, I you missed the effects of this little binary flag on their life. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google-csam-account-blocked https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google-cs...
        sokoloff 1y ago
        > Their life effectively stopped since they are locked out of everything What?! Google locked them out of Google. I'm sure they can still get search, email, and cloud services from many other providers. The government can lock you away in a way that is far more impactful and much closer to "life stopped; locked out of everything" than "you can't have the data you gave us back".
- demarq 1y ago
  It’s more that five years worth of peoples most personal conversations is an absolute treasure trove and makes their systems much more inviting for hackers and yes governments. The part that irks me is that this includes people who are literally paying for the service.
OtherShrezzing 1y ago
And there's no way to opt-out of the training, without agreeing to the 5 year retention. Anthropic has slipped so far and fast from its objective of being the ethical AI company.
- smca 1y ago
  > If you do not choose to provide your data for model training, you’ll continue with our existing 30-day data retention period. https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms

staticman2 1y ago

Given how competitive Claude has been with ChatGPT models without training on users I'm curious how useful OpenAI could have found it.

echelon 1y ago

We should be able to train on foundation model outputs. These bastard companies pirated the world's data, then they train on our personal data. But they have the gall to say we can't save their model's inputs and outputs and distill their models.

jacooper 1y ago
You can, they might not like it but there's no legal basis saying you can't.
- datadrivenangel 1y ago
  violating terms and conditions can be sufficient to be at least charged with computer abuse and fraud.
  - echelon 1y ago
    That's disgusting. We need a Galoob vs. Nintendo [1], Sony vs. Universal [2], or whatever that TiVo case was (I don't think it was TiVo vs. EchoStar). A case that establishes anyone can scrape and distill models. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_America,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nin.... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Unive....
  - jacooper 1y ago
    Scrapping is fair use.
elzbardico 1y ago
I am pretty sure they try to do it all the time between themselves. Most of the real sauce in AI coding comes from reinforcement learning, usually done by armies of third world outsourced developers tediously doing all kinds of tasks with instructions to detail their reasoning behind each chance. Things like: "to run this python test in a docker container with the python image we need to install the python package xyz, but then, as it has some native code, we also need to install build-essential..." While those developers are not well paid (usually around 30/40 USD hour, no benefits), you need a lot of then, so, it is a big temptation to create also as much synthetic data sets from your more capable competitor. Given the fact that AI companies have this Jihad zeal to achieve their goals no matter what (like, fuck copyright, fuck the environment, etc, etc), it would be naive to believe they don't at least try to do it. And even if they don't do it directly, their outsourced developers will do it indirectly by using AI to help with their tasks.

fusslo 1y ago

My work just signed to an enterprise agreement with anthropic. I just checked, and "Your data will not be trained on or used to improve the product. Code is stored to personalize your experience. Applies to all team members."

cowboylowrez 1y ago

I hope they didn't vibe code the popup, that could be bad if it didn't actually work.