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> any authoritarian can sail a ship in calm sea "any democratic gov can sail a ship in calm sea" As we see in europe and the usa, when democracy lasts too lon

> any authoritarian can sail a ship in calm sea "any democratic gov can sail a ship in calm sea" As we see in europe and the usa, when democracy lasts too long, people get too relaxed and free and turn unhappy with random things that annoy them. They used to be at work too much to worry about them, but now they can stare at their neighbour and wonder why this 'migrant' has more than them etc. Or whatever happens to annoy them. And consequently start voting for ultimately authoritarian 'leaders', which will make everything worse for them and most others.

omnimus 1y ago
In europe it is exactly because people are less relaxed that they start to looking for someone to blame. Not the other way around. They are less relaxed because power over time concentrated so much that the top is managing to kill the middle class and generally squeeze everyone. The same top is running huge marketing campaigns of blaming everything but them and as solution they offer authoritarianism and even more power concentration. The public is too busy working to be able to analyze the issue correctly. Plus political education has disappeared from schools and has been methodologically deleted by the top.
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  > They are less relaxed because power over time concentrated so much that the top is managing to kill the middle class and generally squeeze everyone. which happened because we all were very relaxed for decades; most gave away all power because it was all going well so why fight instead of going to the beach? It is still too relaxed; people are still not actually doing anything to change it. > The public is too busy working to be able to analyze the issue correctly. Plus political education has disappeared from schools and has been methodologically deleted by the top. what country? in the countries in the EU I hang out in, people seem to all be on some perpetual vacation. They have busy social agenda's, but work not so much.
  - omnimus 1y ago
    Perpetual vacation? Wow that would be great that is surely aim of every society. Unfortunately afaik majority people in europe are employed (75.8% of population) and thus have maybe 5 weeks (4 weeks minimum) of vacation. In USA the employment ratio is 59.6% so you could say that there are less people working in USA. But we all know its probably just misleading statistics because every company in US is trying not employ people but have them on some zero hour contract. This fantasy of people not working just doesn't work. Who do you think stocks your supermarket, delivers your packages, bakes your bread, fixes your car? Are you saying it's bad that these people still manage have some social life and some fun? Should they be closed in their tiny increasingly overpriced flats so they don't polute the streets? You have to be living in different tier of society but around me everybody taking second/odd jobs because their salaries froze 5 years ago didn't even keep up with inflation. Only people i know that are doing well are over 45 who became landlords by buying flats when it was possible.
    - anonzzzies 1y ago
      > This fantasy of people not working just doesn't work. Who do you think stocks your supermarket, delivers your packages, bakes your bread, fixes your car? Are you saying it's bad that these people still manage have some social life and some fun? Should they be closed in their tiny increasingly overpriced flats so they don't polute the streets? I'm not saying that at all mate. I'm saying that the people who sweep the streets, stock the supermarkets, sit in the banks etc here have a lot of fun and free days. 34 hour work weeks, many vacation days (bank holidays + free days which you can plan together for large stretches). I was not saying people should not have that ; they should. Not having to work at all is also fine. I was responding to you who said people are not relaxed. I don't see that, but then again, you didn't answer; > but around me everybody taking second/odd jobs because their salaries froze 5 years ago Where? And it sure can be that I see other things than you see, it's gonna be different per country and region of the country. I know many people who whine how bad it is (which was part of my start point), but they go on vacation 4-6x / year; then it cannot be that bad right? But I'm not saying you are not seeing something different, I'm saying what I see around me, in, for instance, NL.
sumedh 1y ago
> why this 'migrant' has more than them etc Instead of framing it as “why does this migrant have more than others”, maybe it’s worth looking at the real issue: why is my job being outsourced to someone overseas? Democracy took away that person's job and now those voters want someone authoritarian who will bring it back.
- akimbostrawman 1y ago
  Or why do migrant do over proportional amount of crime or why do they get millions in government taxes while there are natives struggling.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    People in more extreme situations or with trauma backgrounds are more likely to commit crime, we don't have to wonder about that. Maybe if we actually thought about it we would consider that offering support instead of destabilisation directly in places like Syria would save us more headaches long-term than receiving those populations after their societies have collapsed.
    - akimbostrawman 1y ago
      If that is your framing leaving out the part where they are also that way at home for literal millenia, why import known traumatised and violent people that are cultural incompatible? The current plan seems to be using the meddling in the middle east in the name of the greatest ally as an excuse to effectively replace the current population of europe. One has to wonder if the "crazy people" from 10 years ago maybe had a point with the thing they said would happen, when they are being proven right again and again but that can't be because that would be [bad-ism] like the news told us.
      - AlecSchueler 1y ago
        > they are also that way at home for literal millenia We going to pretend the crusades didn't happen? > why import known traumatised and violent people that are cultural incompatible? Who is "importing" anyone? We accept people who are fleeing because we aren't heartless. But maybe we should export Europeans who are culturally incompatible? We tried it in the past though, and it worked out to be easier just to gas them. You want to skip onto that step or do you want to talk about other solutions? People want to come to Europe for a better life because things aren't working where they were born. You can build the walls higher and higher but you're just building more and more resentment, a resentment that will inevitably lead to those walls being broken down, and violently so. It's a much wiser idea to think about how to improve the situation outside of Europe so that both the strain and the comfort can be spread out. Or is sharing your good fortune and caring about your neighbours' lot in life is culturally incompatible with your European ideals?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

omnimus 1y ago

In europe it is exactly because people are less relaxed that they start to looking for someone to blame. Not the other way around. They are less relaxed because power over time concentrated so much that the top is managing to kill the middle class and generally squeeze everyone. The same top is running huge marketing campaigns of blaming everything but them and as solution they offer authoritarianism and even more power concentration. The public is too busy working to be able to analyze the issue correctly. Plus political education has disappeared from schools and has been methodologically deleted by the top.

anonzzzies 1y ago
> They are less relaxed because power over time concentrated so much that the top is managing to kill the middle class and generally squeeze everyone. which happened because we all were very relaxed for decades; most gave away all power because it was all going well so why fight instead of going to the beach? It is still too relaxed; people are still not actually doing anything to change it. > The public is too busy working to be able to analyze the issue correctly. Plus political education has disappeared from schools and has been methodologically deleted by the top. what country? in the countries in the EU I hang out in, people seem to all be on some perpetual vacation. They have busy social agenda's, but work not so much.
- omnimus 1y ago
  Perpetual vacation? Wow that would be great that is surely aim of every society. Unfortunately afaik majority people in europe are employed (75.8% of population) and thus have maybe 5 weeks (4 weeks minimum) of vacation. In USA the employment ratio is 59.6% so you could say that there are less people working in USA. But we all know its probably just misleading statistics because every company in US is trying not employ people but have them on some zero hour contract. This fantasy of people not working just doesn't work. Who do you think stocks your supermarket, delivers your packages, bakes your bread, fixes your car? Are you saying it's bad that these people still manage have some social life and some fun? Should they be closed in their tiny increasingly overpriced flats so they don't polute the streets? You have to be living in different tier of society but around me everybody taking second/odd jobs because their salaries froze 5 years ago didn't even keep up with inflation. Only people i know that are doing well are over 45 who became landlords by buying flats when it was possible.
  - anonzzzies 1y ago
    > This fantasy of people not working just doesn't work. Who do you think stocks your supermarket, delivers your packages, bakes your bread, fixes your car? Are you saying it's bad that these people still manage have some social life and some fun? Should they be closed in their tiny increasingly overpriced flats so they don't polute the streets? I'm not saying that at all mate. I'm saying that the people who sweep the streets, stock the supermarkets, sit in the banks etc here have a lot of fun and free days. 34 hour work weeks, many vacation days (bank holidays + free days which you can plan together for large stretches). I was not saying people should not have that ; they should. Not having to work at all is also fine. I was responding to you who said people are not relaxed. I don't see that, but then again, you didn't answer; > but around me everybody taking second/odd jobs because their salaries froze 5 years ago Where? And it sure can be that I see other things than you see, it's gonna be different per country and region of the country. I know many people who whine how bad it is (which was part of my start point), but they go on vacation 4-6x / year; then it cannot be that bad right? But I'm not saying you are not seeing something different, I'm saying what I see around me, in, for instance, NL.

sumedh 1y ago

> why this 'migrant' has more than them etc Instead of framing it as “why does this migrant have more than others”, maybe it’s worth looking at the real issue: why is my job being outsourced to someone overseas? Democracy took away that person's job and now those voters want someone authoritarian who will bring it back.

akimbostrawman 1y ago
Or why do migrant do over proportional amount of crime or why do they get millions in government taxes while there are natives struggling.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  People in more extreme situations or with trauma backgrounds are more likely to commit crime, we don't have to wonder about that. Maybe if we actually thought about it we would consider that offering support instead of destabilisation directly in places like Syria would save us more headaches long-term than receiving those populations after their societies have collapsed.
  - akimbostrawman 1y ago
    If that is your framing leaving out the part where they are also that way at home for literal millenia, why import known traumatised and violent people that are cultural incompatible? The current plan seems to be using the meddling in the middle east in the name of the greatest ally as an excuse to effectively replace the current population of europe. One has to wonder if the "crazy people" from 10 years ago maybe had a point with the thing they said would happen, when they are being proven right again and again but that can't be because that would be [bad-ism] like the news told us.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      > they are also that way at home for literal millenia We going to pretend the crusades didn't happen? > why import known traumatised and violent people that are cultural incompatible? Who is "importing" anyone? We accept people who are fleeing because we aren't heartless. But maybe we should export Europeans who are culturally incompatible? We tried it in the past though, and it worked out to be easier just to gas them. You want to skip onto that step or do you want to talk about other solutions? People want to come to Europe for a better life because things aren't working where they were born. You can build the walls higher and higher but you're just building more and more resentment, a resentment that will inevitably lead to those walls being broken down, and violently so. It's a much wiser idea to think about how to improve the situation outside of Europe so that both the strain and the comfort can be spread out. Or is sharing your good fortune and caring about your neighbours' lot in life is culturally incompatible with your European ideals?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]