5 ms·

Every industry is an overcrowded airport lounge now

65 points by walterbell 1y ago

GianFabien 1y ago
Perhaps it would be better to look at this business dynamic from the point of view of the brilliant MBAs and executive suite McScrooges. It is all about maximizing shareholder value. The so called customer is a roadblock to directly lifting the money out of their wallet and into theirs.
- bigstrat2003 1y ago
  This is why, were I to start a business, I would never under any circumstances take it public. Once you become a slave to the next quarter results, it inevitably kills your ability to provide a quality product. As a society we should incentivize businesses to be in it for the long haul, not just to focus on immediate "number go up".
  - grafmax 1y ago
    It’s the financialization of our economy that has caused it to become poor at delivering value to consumers. Rentier capitalists profit by charging others for what they own rather than what they produce.
  - queenkjuul 1y ago
    Yeah it's not about "us" when the economy is designed from the ground up to require this behavior
nativeit 1y ago
This exact notion is why I named my business "Native I.T." back in 2015 when I became disillusioned with the state of I.T. subcontracting and the emerging "gig economy". I've always been better at service than sales, so here's hoping I can leverage my strength with this particular niche. I can certainly say that I share the sentiments, and find most everyone I know does as well.
- CoastalCoder 1y ago
  My friend, have I got a video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J0s10G0jk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J0s10G0jk
loloquwowndueo 1y ago
Hilarious and insufferable at the same time. Enjoyed it!
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
vrdev 1y ago
I recently travelled through both Chicago and Denver airports and was amazed to see lines of people queued up to enter the clubs. It seems like such a synthetic economy, like a theme park.
bigstrat2003 1y ago
I definitely agree with the author that there are opportunities out there for businesses which provide good service. I'm at a point in my life where I don't actually care that much about price any more. I will pay a premium for a) good quality products and b) good service. I love going to my local butcher shop, even though it's often 25-50% more than the supermarket near me. Why? Because they have great service. If I need some soup bones cut in half to roast, they're happy to take them back and run them through the saw. If I ask for 3" thick steaks, they will say "no problem, come back in a day or two and we will cut some that size for you". They'll break down whole chickens for me if I ask, etc etc. That's well worth the premium in price, and they have a very loyal customer base because of it. Service really does matter.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  It matters for the top 10% of customers (measuring ability and willingness to spend). For the other 90%, there is very little margin in the extra amount they are willing to pay for a material difference in service.
  - throwaway2037 1y ago
    This comment really hits the nail on the head. Never listen to Internet strangers (who will very likely fall into that 90% bucket) that "service really matters". Sure, but price matters more for normie consumers. Airlines are the ultimate expression of that. The only airlines left that offer amazing service are national airlines with strong state protections or support. In short, you are probably way overpaying for that service. If I had one dollar for each time an Internet rando said "I will never buy from that store or use that service again because such and such thing happened to me", I would be rich.
    - MrDunham 1y ago
      There was a great comedic bit on this: "Thank you for flying Delta? I'd fly a kite if it was $11 cheaper" I couldn't find the comedian, but the truth in it hits. Side note: if I recall correctly Delta listened to their customers a decade+ back, gave more leg room, then nearly went bankrupt because no one wanted to pay more for the service.
jedberg 1y ago
I'm the CEO of a small company. Our team is super customer service oriented, and I support and reward that, even though it costs us extra. I agree with the article. Provide great service and a product that works, and people will love you.
bofadeez 1y ago
[flagged]
paulgb 1y ago
Enjoyable read, but kind of ironic that it interrupts your reading half way down to nag you to subscribe. Everything is an overcrowded airport lounge, indeed.
- conorcleary 1y ago
  Gotta turn your monitor vertical ;)
SanjayMehta 1y ago
I’ve heard the “you can order the odd colour online” so many times I’ve started telling the sales people “if we all did that then you wouldn’t have a job.” I think most brands have adjusted to “showrooming,” where customers check out the fit and finish and then order online anyway, specifically for shoes. Some stores place the order for you. The extra charge for bags is mandated by many local governments (to “reduce waste”), businesses just tack on another few pennies of profit.
Proofread0592 1y ago
This person feels entitled to quality customer service. Maybe 30 years ago that was an expectation. Nowadays, if you want good customer service, you need to pick business that deliberately prioritize it, which often means paying more. Consumer Cellular is a great example of a company that prioritizes customer service and costs a bit more. Compare their cellular service to a company like Mint, which gives you basically the exact same product, but for half the price due to having literally zero customer service. For running shoes to use one of their examples, REI is a great store to get a human to show you where things are and to give their opinion on what the right shoe for you would be. If you go into a Macy's or a WalMart you'll pay a lot less, but you won't have anyone there to help you. Every self checkout I've been at has always had an employee willing to help, in fact more often than not the person manning the self checkouts at Costco just ends up gunning all my items when they see I have an infant strapped to me, and I typically don't have to lift a finger. Of course, you can't get into Costco without purchasing an annual membership and you can't get out of Costco without spending at least $100. You can get cheap stuff, and you can get less cheap stuff with good customer service. Peoples' time and energy is not free, and you should be willing to pay for it if you expect it. Feeling entitled to good customer service when you purchase bargain-barrel products lacks a certain awareness of how much an employee deserves to be paid.
- BeFlatXIII 1y ago
  It also depends on the industry whether they have the margins to give better service with lowered profits or if they'd have to raise prices to avoid losing money.
abnercoimbre 1y ago
> Because here’s the ugly truth: service is dead. The only thing still alive is the endless, humiliating upsell and self-service. As I shouted "hear, hear" the author's substack blocked me from further reading with a giant Subscribe Now pop-up.
- chupchap 1y ago
  The author is making a point with that live example :)
slipperydippery 1y ago
I think the author needs to shop at "richer" places for the treatment they want. Service is rich-people shit, and they're evidently not spending rich-people money. Inflation may recently have fucked up their expectations. It's been rough, I get it, I feel like I've dropped a "class" or so, too, just as I was clawing my way into upper-middle. $300 full-retail for two pairs of sneakers in the downtown of a major city is not rich people money anymore, the goddamn trash-tier sneakers for my kids at Kohls often cost like $50+ a pair—on clearance. That's dead-center middle-class spending now, and the middle class has had shit service a long time. I get it. $100 sneakers should be premium. $150? Pft! If you're somewhere that stocks those, it's gotta be nice, right? I mean damn. But not so much any more. I suspect there's something similar going on with the rest of what they're seeing. Though yes, I agree that the middle class once again receiving any amount of actual service instead of constant attempts to fuck them over and nickel-and-dime them would be rad.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  > I think the author needs to shop at "richer" places for the treatment they want. I think this is the mentality that’s killing the service industry. When I order a $5 coffee that’s basically just a person pouring some coffee in a cup, they expect 30% tip for the service. The swinging the obnoxious iPad with the ridiculous tip amounts for basically doing your job is what is wrong with everything right now. It may not be the worker’s fault but it is what is wrong from a customer experience. Like you could order a cheeseburger and it’s missing the fries that come with it, and you’d be the asshole to point out that they’re missing in your to go bag after paying $30 for it.
  - bigstrat2003 1y ago
    I will not tip for just facilitating a transaction. There has to be some actual service for me to tip. No offense to the employees at Crumbl Cookies, but putting the cookies I asked for into a box is not tip-worthy.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Yep. There's a clothing store here in town that has top-notch service. Salespeople who can measure you, find the right size or arrange alterations, know everything they sell. But the cheapest shirt they sell is probably close to $200.
BeFlatXIII 1y ago
> First, I can’t make it two blocks to the store without being ambushed by clipboard warriors trying to rope me into saving the whales, curing baldness, or whatever today’s cause-of-the-day is. Preach it! Get the hell out of my way.
- euroderf 1y ago
  The scene in Airplane with the Hari Krishna was an absolutely incredible hit with audiences.
thomassmith65 1y ago
The essay the author begins with also appeared on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44780015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44780015
jimmytucson 1y ago
That’s because every business is “scaled” to the point that the edge employees —- ie the people who interact with paying customers —- don’t own anything, and are 12 levels of management away from anyone who does. My grandparents owned a grocery store. Their name was on the sign. If you brought home spoiled meat, that was their name and you as a member of their community that were put out. When my mom brings home spoiled meat from Stop & Shop, she goes back there not just to exchange it, but to complain to someone about how it messed up her barbecue plans, etc. And I’m like seriously, why would anyone working at Stop & Shop give a rat’s ass about your family gathering? Stop & Shop is owned by a Dutch multinational “food retail” company. But that’s not the capitalism she grew up with. She actually thinks capitalism is great because it allowed her parents to come over on a boat as teenagers and make lives for themselves, and have extra to send back home. But she hates it when she calls her cable company and ends up chatting with a girl in Singapore. Go figure.
- BeFlatXIII 1y ago
  > why would anyone working at Stop & Shop give a rat’s ass about your family gathering? That's pretty much the split between the generations. Boomers want the appearance of giving a rat’s ass, but Millennials and younger have been the apathetic employee and don't expect otherwise.
  - gyomu 1y ago
    Well, millenials and younger saw their parents kill themselves at the job when giving a rat's ass, and still saw them get laid off/their bodies destroyed by the toll of a lifetime of manual work/a whole life of hustle leading to a meager retirement, and they realized none of it was worth it.
  - Spivak 1y ago
    Genuinely this. Every time an older employee gives me a "And thank you for shopping at <business>" I just feel sad for them. The company neither pays them enough nor gives even a single fuck to warrant that kind of behavior. I approach customer service as the total opposite from the OP. I treat anyone I interact with like they're doing me a favor by providing me service—and honestly, they are. I mean they're working this absolutely thankless job that I think I would choose the mines before considering, and they owe their employer nothing other than the bare fucking minimum. We're all just trying to get by and they're in the trenches.
gyomu 1y ago
The rise of premium mediocre[0]. Everyone wants to feel VIP, and there's lots of money to be made in making people think they're going to get the VIP experience, so we get a flood of shitty VIP experiences like airport lounges. If you don't like this state of affairs, you basically have two choices: 1) hustle and try to make enough money so that you're an actual VIP with access to actual VIP experiences (OP in the article says "Charge me a premium, I don’t care.". Buddy, if you could afford the premium, you wouldn't be writing this article) 2) drop out, and don't patronize those experiences in the first place. Question why you are in a fake VIP airport lounge waiting to head to your fake VIP Disney/Vegas/Venice/whatever vacation in the first place. [0] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/08/17/the-premium-mediocre-life-of-maya-millennial/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/08/17/the-premium-mediocre-l...
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  Hat tip for that blog post! I read it many years ago and laughed very hard reading it. Here is the HN discussion on it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15199709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15199709 > Buddy, if you could afford the premium, you wouldn't be writing this article I agree. I think if we are so curious about airport lounges we should ask: Why are there so many of them now? More than twenty years ago, you were really a player if you frequented airport lounges. None of this miles upgrade nonsense. You were a regular business class flyer. Airlines really wanted to improve your experience to keep you spending. The number of business class (and above) seats has not meaningfully changed since then, yet there are far more people using airport lounges. I am willing to bet that the author is a member of the premium mediocre American class that is not a regular flyer in business class, nor was a regular user of airport lounges twenty-plus years ago.
dudeWithAMood 1y ago
I heard on npr, can't remember which radio show, that customers these days do a really poor job of punishing poor companies. They cited the statistic that the most pissed off customer is only 2% less likely to use a service/product than the most loyal customer.
- anonymars 1y ago
  Often the competition isn't there, probably because we snoozed on antitrust for decades Or they all do the same thing. "Let me vote with my wallet against the bullshit of forced arbitration!" Looks around...
system7rocks 1y ago
I will say this - I've been an Apple fan for a long time, through some really dark times. And I have my issues with who Apple has become. One of the nice things about the Apple Store though was not just realizing that no one else was going to sell their differently designed products better than they were and the need for well-organized, spacious, inviting stores that were a fun attraction on a visit to the mall -- they really improved their customer service process. It's nice to be able to schedule an appointment and talk to someone who walks you through options. I'm sure there is no 100% satisfaction, but I took my iPhone 13 Pro Max in for a battery replacement... and ultimately, they ended up giving me a new iPhone 13 Pro Max because the camera sensor didn't work after battery replacement. They were nice, apologetic, and communicated well throughout the whole process. I even ran into the customer service rep at a local pub and nearly bought him a beer because he was so helpful. But with that said, I agree with this post - sometimes, there is simply satisfaction in doing things well, treating people with dignity and respect, even if it doesn't pad your bottom line. How do we get there? No idea. Perhaps by having these kinds of conversations?
p3rls 1y ago
My niche is more like an indian bus stop after three years of google deciding that's what Korean news needed. Consider yourself lucky.
jamesbrock 1y ago
This essay is a treatler manifesto, full of treatler clichés like “customer service simply no longer exists.” https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/treatler-treatlerite https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/treatler-treatlerite Note that the author does not ask for universal manners and courtesy, the foundation of a pleasant society. Instead he demands “customer service” in which dignity and respect flow in only one direction. Does the author really want new shoes, or does he mostly want to feel like a very special boy in the shoe store? It is the latter. I suspect he would choose to burn down the world rather than live in a world in which his superior social position as a Customer is unrecognized. Soon the bond markets will neutralize the status conferred by this man’s credit card and we will see which he, and the millions like him, choose.
throwaway2037 1y ago
This article reads like a chapter from the Boomer Bible. Not getting a free bag for your purchase? That is mostly controlled by local city rules about reducing plastic. Mostly highly developed places now try to reduce the amount of "free bags" given when shopping. This includes many high-end department stores and grocery stores. I don't think the author realises how much it would cost to have a native-level English speaker available at a call center. Wages are probably 20 USD per hour (unless you use Philippines or India, but I am sure the author would object).
os2warpman 1y ago
> Lounges used to feel special, a perk reserved for business travelers. Now they’re overcrowded, uninspired, yet somehow more coveted than ever—thanks to social media flexes and pricey credit card perks. I think one of the author's main issues is that they want to feel special, and that feeling can only come through external validation like the exclusion of others. Also, they seem to take the easy and lazy way out by seething instead of acting. Also, they lie a lot. Nobody has hassled people with clipboards to save the whales for 26 years. > The only thing still alive is the endless, humiliating upsell and self-service. The drugstore, the bank, the dentist Yeah. Lazy way out. When I had a bad experience at a chain pharmacy 10-ish years ago I spent less than an hour, googled "independent pharmacies" and found the National Community Pharmacists Association. They have a locator for locally-owned independent pharmacies and I switched to one of those. Now I know my pharmacist's name (not the tech, the actual pharmacist, though I know the techs too) and I don't even have any pressing or complicated medical issues. The only thing they've ever tried to upsell me is a self-published book on local lore and history written by a woman who lives in my neighborhood that was in a stack next to the register. Yes I bought it. I'm a hoe for that shit. Same with shoes. My feet are large and weird and shoe buying sucked, not to mention the clueless staff. Often a store would have one pair in my size so I would have to take what I could get. So I took a little time, did some research, and found that specialty running shoe stores exist, staffed by experts, locally owned and operated. You can do this with many things. Banks (though I prefer credit unions, mine is so small that nearly every member can fit in a large ballroom for our annual meeting and we have an App and digital wallet and everything), doctors, dentists, clothing retailers, anything. But instead of acting, the author chooses to seethe. And before you say "there's no other option" you're wrong, unless you live in a deep rural area where the nearest store is 20 minutes away and is a Dollar General, you are wrong. You just don't care enough to do anything about it, which is a goal with most businesses: plotting the pain/rejection envelope and operating as close to it as possible, to appease the shareholders. You may have to travel a little farther or spend a little more but like I said: pain/rejection envelope-- "how shitty can we be because we're in the main shopping center and the independent guy is on the edge of town?" An easy way to avoid the race to the bottom is to exit the race. Don't seethe. Act. It isn't hard.
- slipperydippery 1y ago
sshine 1y ago
> Why can’t stores just build the damn bag into the price In the EU, they're legally required to charge you for it to incentivize lowering plastic waste.
- staringback 1y ago
  This is also the case in Washington State.
aryehof 1y ago
> Every industry is an overcrowded airport lounge now … in some countries. I’ve recently moved to a small European country and can speak to a person for everything and they are helpful! From electricity to cellular provider to government departments to stores to doctors to making a reservation, I can’t believe the quality of life this brings. Some places simply have intangibles that make for a higher quality of life.
- bschwindHN 1y ago
  What country is this, if you don't mind me asking? It's similar in Japan where I can easily get ahold of a human, though it's not always the case that they're helpful.
  - Gud 1y ago
    This is my experience in Zürich. When I first moved there, the lady who helped me get things sorted in the community office(after rolling her eyes aggressively due to all the paperwork errors I’d made while moving) scribbled her direct number in case I needed further assistance. When things are kept local and decentralised, things get a lot easier.
sltr 1y ago
When I go to a retail store, my primary emotion is empathy for the workers: I think, "sorry you have to stand here for 8 hours and listen to entitled upper middle class customers". Sometimes at the grocery store, if there's no bagger I'll start bagging my own groceries instead standing there waiting for the cashier to do it. Gets me out of there quicker, and they're often surprised in a grateful way. Love your neighbor as yourself.
jmclnx 1y ago
Yes he has a point, we are unpaid employees these days. And this is spilling over to Gov. services too,
rsynnott 1y ago
> The only thing still alive is the endless, humiliating upsell and self-service. The drugstore, the bank, the dentist Generally I feel like this article is mostly whiny nonsense ("why aren't airport lounges for special people like me special enough anymore?!", get a grip), but I must say I do find the ideal of dental self-service a little alarming.

65 points by walterbell 1y ago

Perhaps it would be better to look at this business dynamic from the point of view of the brilliant MBAs and executive suite McScrooges. It is all about maximizing shareholder value. The so called customer is a roadblock to directly lifting the money out of their wallet and into theirs.

bigstrat2003 1y ago
This is why, were I to start a business, I would never under any circumstances take it public. Once you become a slave to the next quarter results, it inevitably kills your ability to provide a quality product. As a society we should incentivize businesses to be in it for the long haul, not just to focus on immediate "number go up".
- grafmax 1y ago
  It’s the financialization of our economy that has caused it to become poor at delivering value to consumers. Rentier capitalists profit by charging others for what they own rather than what they produce.
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  Yeah it's not about "us" when the economy is designed from the ground up to require this behavior

nativeit 1y ago

This exact notion is why I named my business "Native I.T." back in 2015 when I became disillusioned with the state of I.T. subcontracting and the emerging "gig economy". I've always been better at service than sales, so here's hoping I can leverage my strength with this particular niche. I can certainly say that I share the sentiments, and find most everyone I know does as well.

CoastalCoder 1y ago
My friend, have I got a video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J0s10G0jk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J0s10G0jk

loloquwowndueo 1y ago

Hilarious and insufferable at the same time. Enjoyed it!

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

vrdev 1y ago

I recently travelled through both Chicago and Denver airports and was amazed to see lines of people queued up to enter the clubs. It seems like such a synthetic economy, like a theme park.

bigstrat2003 1y ago

I definitely agree with the author that there are opportunities out there for businesses which provide good service. I'm at a point in my life where I don't actually care that much about price any more. I will pay a premium for a) good quality products and b) good service. I love going to my local butcher shop, even though it's often 25-50% more than the supermarket near me. Why? Because they have great service. If I need some soup bones cut in half to roast, they're happy to take them back and run them through the saw. If I ask for 3" thick steaks, they will say "no problem, come back in a day or two and we will cut some that size for you". They'll break down whole chickens for me if I ask, etc etc. That's well worth the premium in price, and they have a very loyal customer base because of it. Service really does matter.

lotsofpulp 1y ago
It matters for the top 10% of customers (measuring ability and willingness to spend). For the other 90%, there is very little margin in the extra amount they are willing to pay for a material difference in service.
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  This comment really hits the nail on the head. Never listen to Internet strangers (who will very likely fall into that 90% bucket) that "service really matters". Sure, but price matters more for normie consumers. Airlines are the ultimate expression of that. The only airlines left that offer amazing service are national airlines with strong state protections or support. In short, you are probably way overpaying for that service. If I had one dollar for each time an Internet rando said "I will never buy from that store or use that service again because such and such thing happened to me", I would be rich.
  - MrDunham 1y ago
    There was a great comedic bit on this: "Thank you for flying Delta? I'd fly a kite if it was $11 cheaper" I couldn't find the comedian, but the truth in it hits. Side note: if I recall correctly Delta listened to their customers a decade+ back, gave more leg room, then nearly went bankrupt because no one wanted to pay more for the service.

jedberg 1y ago

I'm the CEO of a small company. Our team is super customer service oriented, and I support and reward that, even though it costs us extra. I agree with the article. Provide great service and a product that works, and people will love you.

bofadeez 1y ago

[flagged]

paulgb 1y ago

Enjoyable read, but kind of ironic that it interrupts your reading half way down to nag you to subscribe. Everything is an overcrowded airport lounge, indeed.

conorcleary 1y ago
Gotta turn your monitor vertical ;)

SanjayMehta 1y ago

I’ve heard the “you can order the odd colour online” so many times I’ve started telling the sales people “if we all did that then you wouldn’t have a job.” I think most brands have adjusted to “showrooming,” where customers check out the fit and finish and then order online anyway, specifically for shoes. Some stores place the order for you. The extra charge for bags is mandated by many local governments (to “reduce waste”), businesses just tack on another few pennies of profit.

Proofread0592 1y ago

This person feels entitled to quality customer service. Maybe 30 years ago that was an expectation. Nowadays, if you want good customer service, you need to pick business that deliberately prioritize it, which often means paying more. Consumer Cellular is a great example of a company that prioritizes customer service and costs a bit more. Compare their cellular service to a company like Mint, which gives you basically the exact same product, but for half the price due to having literally zero customer service. For running shoes to use one of their examples, REI is a great store to get a human to show you where things are and to give their opinion on what the right shoe for you would be. If you go into a Macy's or a WalMart you'll pay a lot less, but you won't have anyone there to help you. Every self checkout I've been at has always had an employee willing to help, in fact more often than not the person manning the self checkouts at Costco just ends up gunning all my items when they see I have an infant strapped to me, and I typically don't have to lift a finger. Of course, you can't get into Costco without purchasing an annual membership and you can't get out of Costco without spending at least $100. You can get cheap stuff, and you can get less cheap stuff with good customer service. Peoples' time and energy is not free, and you should be willing to pay for it if you expect it. Feeling entitled to good customer service when you purchase bargain-barrel products lacks a certain awareness of how much an employee deserves to be paid.

BeFlatXIII 1y ago
It also depends on the industry whether they have the margins to give better service with lowered profits or if they'd have to raise prices to avoid losing money.

abnercoimbre 1y ago

> Because here’s the ugly truth: service is dead. The only thing still alive is the endless, humiliating upsell and self-service. As I shouted "hear, hear" the author's substack blocked me from further reading with a giant Subscribe Now pop-up.

chupchap 1y ago
The author is making a point with that live example :)

slipperydippery 1y ago

I think the author needs to shop at "richer" places for the treatment they want. Service is rich-people shit, and they're evidently not spending rich-people money. Inflation may recently have fucked up their expectations. It's been rough, I get it, I feel like I've dropped a "class" or so, too, just as I was clawing my way into upper-middle. $300 full-retail for two pairs of sneakers in the downtown of a major city is not rich people money anymore, the goddamn trash-tier sneakers for my kids at Kohls often cost like $50+ a pair—on clearance. That's dead-center middle-class spending now, and the middle class has had shit service a long time. I get it. $100 sneakers should be premium. $150? Pft! If you're somewhere that stocks those, it's gotta be nice, right? I mean damn. But not so much any more. I suspect there's something similar going on with the rest of what they're seeing. Though yes, I agree that the middle class once again receiving any amount of actual service instead of constant attempts to fuck them over and nickel-and-dime them would be rad.

darth_avocado 1y ago
> I think the author needs to shop at "richer" places for the treatment they want. I think this is the mentality that’s killing the service industry. When I order a $5 coffee that’s basically just a person pouring some coffee in a cup, they expect 30% tip for the service. The swinging the obnoxious iPad with the ridiculous tip amounts for basically doing your job is what is wrong with everything right now. It may not be the worker’s fault but it is what is wrong from a customer experience. Like you could order a cheeseburger and it’s missing the fries that come with it, and you’d be the asshole to point out that they’re missing in your to go bag after paying $30 for it.
- bigstrat2003 1y ago
  I will not tip for just facilitating a transaction. There has to be some actual service for me to tip. No offense to the employees at Crumbl Cookies, but putting the cookies I asked for into a box is not tip-worthy.
SoftTalker 1y ago
Yep. There's a clothing store here in town that has top-notch service. Salespeople who can measure you, find the right size or arrange alterations, know everything they sell. But the cheapest shirt they sell is probably close to $200.

BeFlatXIII 1y ago

> First, I can’t make it two blocks to the store without being ambushed by clipboard warriors trying to rope me into saving the whales, curing baldness, or whatever today’s cause-of-the-day is. Preach it! Get the hell out of my way.

euroderf 1y ago
The scene in Airplane with the Hari Krishna was an absolutely incredible hit with audiences.

thomassmith65 1y ago

The essay the author begins with also appeared on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44780015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44780015

jimmytucson 1y ago

That’s because every business is “scaled” to the point that the edge employees —- ie the people who interact with paying customers —- don’t own anything, and are 12 levels of management away from anyone who does. My grandparents owned a grocery store. Their name was on the sign. If you brought home spoiled meat, that was their name and you as a member of their community that were put out. When my mom brings home spoiled meat from Stop & Shop, she goes back there not just to exchange it, but to complain to someone about how it messed up her barbecue plans, etc. And I’m like seriously, why would anyone working at Stop & Shop give a rat’s ass about your family gathering? Stop & Shop is owned by a Dutch multinational “food retail” company. But that’s not the capitalism she grew up with. She actually thinks capitalism is great because it allowed her parents to come over on a boat as teenagers and make lives for themselves, and have extra to send back home. But she hates it when she calls her cable company and ends up chatting with a girl in Singapore. Go figure.

BeFlatXIII 1y ago
> why would anyone working at Stop & Shop give a rat’s ass about your family gathering? That's pretty much the split between the generations. Boomers want the appearance of giving a rat’s ass, but Millennials and younger have been the apathetic employee and don't expect otherwise.
- gyomu 1y ago
  Well, millenials and younger saw their parents kill themselves at the job when giving a rat's ass, and still saw them get laid off/their bodies destroyed by the toll of a lifetime of manual work/a whole life of hustle leading to a meager retirement, and they realized none of it was worth it.
- Spivak 1y ago
  Genuinely this. Every time an older employee gives me a "And thank you for shopping at <business>" I just feel sad for them. The company neither pays them enough nor gives even a single fuck to warrant that kind of behavior. I approach customer service as the total opposite from the OP. I treat anyone I interact with like they're doing me a favor by providing me service—and honestly, they are. I mean they're working this absolutely thankless job that I think I would choose the mines before considering, and they owe their employer nothing other than the bare fucking minimum. We're all just trying to get by and they're in the trenches.

gyomu 1y ago

The rise of premium mediocre[0]. Everyone wants to feel VIP, and there's lots of money to be made in making people think they're going to get the VIP experience, so we get a flood of shitty VIP experiences like airport lounges. If you don't like this state of affairs, you basically have two choices: 1) hustle and try to make enough money so that you're an actual VIP with access to actual VIP experiences (OP in the article says "Charge me a premium, I don’t care.". Buddy, if you could afford the premium, you wouldn't be writing this article) 2) drop out, and don't patronize those experiences in the first place. Question why you are in a fake VIP airport lounge waiting to head to your fake VIP Disney/Vegas/Venice/whatever vacation in the first place. [0] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/08/17/the-premium-mediocre-life-of-maya-millennial/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/08/17/the-premium-mediocre-l...

throwaway2037 1y ago
Hat tip for that blog post! I read it many years ago and laughed very hard reading it. Here is the HN discussion on it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15199709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15199709 > Buddy, if you could afford the premium, you wouldn't be writing this article I agree. I think if we are so curious about airport lounges we should ask: Why are there so many of them now? More than twenty years ago, you were really a player if you frequented airport lounges. None of this miles upgrade nonsense. You were a regular business class flyer. Airlines really wanted to improve your experience to keep you spending. The number of business class (and above) seats has not meaningfully changed since then, yet there are far more people using airport lounges. I am willing to bet that the author is a member of the premium mediocre American class that is not a regular flyer in business class, nor was a regular user of airport lounges twenty-plus years ago.

dudeWithAMood 1y ago

I heard on npr, can't remember which radio show, that customers these days do a really poor job of punishing poor companies. They cited the statistic that the most pissed off customer is only 2% less likely to use a service/product than the most loyal customer.

anonymars 1y ago
Often the competition isn't there, probably because we snoozed on antitrust for decades Or they all do the same thing. "Let me vote with my wallet against the bullshit of forced arbitration!" Looks around...

system7rocks 1y ago

I will say this - I've been an Apple fan for a long time, through some really dark times. And I have my issues with who Apple has become. One of the nice things about the Apple Store though was not just realizing that no one else was going to sell their differently designed products better than they were and the need for well-organized, spacious, inviting stores that were a fun attraction on a visit to the mall -- they really improved their customer service process. It's nice to be able to schedule an appointment and talk to someone who walks you through options. I'm sure there is no 100% satisfaction, but I took my iPhone 13 Pro Max in for a battery replacement... and ultimately, they ended up giving me a new iPhone 13 Pro Max because the camera sensor didn't work after battery replacement. They were nice, apologetic, and communicated well throughout the whole process. I even ran into the customer service rep at a local pub and nearly bought him a beer because he was so helpful. But with that said, I agree with this post - sometimes, there is simply satisfaction in doing things well, treating people with dignity and respect, even if it doesn't pad your bottom line. How do we get there? No idea. Perhaps by having these kinds of conversations?

p3rls 1y ago

My niche is more like an indian bus stop after three years of google deciding that's what Korean news needed. Consider yourself lucky.

jamesbrock 1y ago

This essay is a treatler manifesto, full of treatler clichés like “customer service simply no longer exists.” https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/treatler-treatlerite https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/treatler-treatlerite Note that the author does not ask for universal manners and courtesy, the foundation of a pleasant society. Instead he demands “customer service” in which dignity and respect flow in only one direction. Does the author really want new shoes, or does he mostly want to feel like a very special boy in the shoe store? It is the latter. I suspect he would choose to burn down the world rather than live in a world in which his superior social position as a Customer is unrecognized. Soon the bond markets will neutralize the status conferred by this man’s credit card and we will see which he, and the millions like him, choose.

throwaway2037 1y ago

This article reads like a chapter from the Boomer Bible. Not getting a free bag for your purchase? That is mostly controlled by local city rules about reducing plastic. Mostly highly developed places now try to reduce the amount of "free bags" given when shopping. This includes many high-end department stores and grocery stores. I don't think the author realises how much it would cost to have a native-level English speaker available at a call center. Wages are probably 20 USD per hour (unless you use Philippines or India, but I am sure the author would object).

os2warpman 1y ago

> Lounges used to feel special, a perk reserved for business travelers. Now they’re overcrowded, uninspired, yet somehow more coveted than ever—thanks to social media flexes and pricey credit card perks. I think one of the author's main issues is that they want to feel special, and that feeling can only come through external validation like the exclusion of others. Also, they seem to take the easy and lazy way out by seething instead of acting. Also, they lie a lot. Nobody has hassled people with clipboards to save the whales for 26 years. > The only thing still alive is the endless, humiliating upsell and self-service. The drugstore, the bank, the dentist Yeah. Lazy way out. When I had a bad experience at a chain pharmacy 10-ish years ago I spent less than an hour, googled "independent pharmacies" and found the National Community Pharmacists Association. They have a locator for locally-owned independent pharmacies and I switched to one of those. Now I know my pharmacist's name (not the tech, the actual pharmacist, though I know the techs too) and I don't even have any pressing or complicated medical issues. The only thing they've ever tried to upsell me is a self-published book on local lore and history written by a woman who lives in my neighborhood that was in a stack next to the register. Yes I bought it. I'm a hoe for that shit. Same with shoes. My feet are large and weird and shoe buying sucked, not to mention the clueless staff. Often a store would have one pair in my size so I would have to take what I could get. So I took a little time, did some research, and found that specialty running shoe stores exist, staffed by experts, locally owned and operated. You can do this with many things. Banks (though I prefer credit unions, mine is so small that nearly every member can fit in a large ballroom for our annual meeting and we have an App and digital wallet and everything), doctors, dentists, clothing retailers, anything. But instead of acting, the author chooses to seethe. And before you say "there's no other option" you're wrong, unless you live in a deep rural area where the nearest store is 20 minutes away and is a Dollar General, you are wrong. You just don't care enough to do anything about it, which is a goal with most businesses: plotting the pain/rejection envelope and operating as close to it as possible, to appease the shareholders. You may have to travel a little farther or spend a little more but like I said: pain/rejection envelope-- "how shitty can we be because we're in the main shopping center and the independent guy is on the edge of town?" An easy way to avoid the race to the bottom is to exit the race. Don't seethe. Act. It isn't hard.

slipperydippery 1y ago

sshine 1y ago

> Why can’t stores just build the damn bag into the price In the EU, they're legally required to charge you for it to incentivize lowering plastic waste.

staringback 1y ago
This is also the case in Washington State.

aryehof 1y ago

> Every industry is an overcrowded airport lounge now … in some countries. I’ve recently moved to a small European country and can speak to a person for everything and they are helpful! From electricity to cellular provider to government departments to stores to doctors to making a reservation, I can’t believe the quality of life this brings. Some places simply have intangibles that make for a higher quality of life.

bschwindHN 1y ago
What country is this, if you don't mind me asking? It's similar in Japan where I can easily get ahold of a human, though it's not always the case that they're helpful.
- Gud 1y ago
  This is my experience in Zürich. When I first moved there, the lady who helped me get things sorted in the community office(after rolling her eyes aggressively due to all the paperwork errors I’d made while moving) scribbled her direct number in case I needed further assistance. When things are kept local and decentralised, things get a lot easier.

sltr 1y ago

When I go to a retail store, my primary emotion is empathy for the workers: I think, "sorry you have to stand here for 8 hours and listen to entitled upper middle class customers". Sometimes at the grocery store, if there's no bagger I'll start bagging my own groceries instead standing there waiting for the cashier to do it. Gets me out of there quicker, and they're often surprised in a grateful way. Love your neighbor as yourself.

jmclnx 1y ago

Yes he has a point, we are unpaid employees these days. And this is spilling over to Gov. services too,

rsynnott 1y ago

> The only thing still alive is the endless, humiliating upsell and self-service. The drugstore, the bank, the dentist Generally I feel like this article is mostly whiny nonsense ("why aren't airport lounges for special people like me special enough anymore?!", get a grip), but I must say I do find the ideal of dental self-service a little alarming.