5 ms·

Better link: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Paypal-German-banks-apparently-blocked-payments-of-billions-of-euros-10622936.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Paypal

Better link: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Paypal-German-banks-apparently-blocked-payments-of-billions-of-euros-10622936.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Paypal-German-banks-apparently-...

chatmasta 1y ago
Maybe it’s a better link, but I can only read the content if I accept their sharing my data with 180 partners.
- SLWW 1y ago
  https://archive.is/6h2TN https://archive.is/6h2TN
- tharkun__ 1y ago
  Which is the same as many if not most of the other sites we regularly link to on HN. You just aren't told about it.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    If I have to accept it I think that's even worse than doing typical tracking behind my back. Also requiring acceptance from EU users would be a GDPR violation, I think? But it didn't ask me at all so I can't evaluate it well.
    - dod9er 1y ago
      I think it is great that they are forced to show whats going one. Otherwise we wouldnt even discuss, just no one would care.
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        Forced to show is better than going behind my back. But making me click an "accept" button is just dirty. I hate that.
        tharkun__ 1y ago
        Nobody is making you. You are given a choice. This company needs to get paid. For that it uses ads and other means, just like everyone else does. Their list of ads, tracking and other partners happens to be around 200. They tell you and you either choose to accept that, read their content for "free" (like you use other content/apps for "free") or actually choose to say "No, if "free" costs me this, then I don't want it". And some really aren't even to "sell your data" but just their own analytics to let their dev/SRE staff see what's going on. Nothing nefarious at all. Nobody forces you to accept this and read their content. Heck, your online banking/brokerage probably uses a bunch of trackers you probably aren't aware of, because they don't tell you. Go open the network tab in dev tools and check.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        Yeah I know I could leave. But if the site won't let me say no, then it shouldn't pretend to give me an option. If they're acting like the GDPR applies, these choices are invalid. If they're not extending that courtesy, then I'd rather be left alone about it. And they're allowed to have ads without getting consent. It's the tracking that's a problem. And there's no chance in hell that data isn't being sold when there are hundreds of partners.
        tinodb 1y ago
        No, the GDPR is making _them_. Gating content behind "consent" for tracking isn't allowed. They have the choice to then show content with generic trackers.
    - tomschwiha 1y ago
      You are not required to accept the tracking. You can pay to remove tracking with their "Pur-Abo".
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        That is definitely a GDPR violation (for users in the EU). And heise.de has already gotten in trouble for this before.
        indigo945 1y ago
        That is not a GDPR violation, no. Most German newspapers do this, and it has been tried in court - it's legal. The court only mandated that the subscription fee cannot be substantially higher than the value of the data that would have otherwise been sold.
        FeepingCreature 1y ago
        Yeah it is, if courts decided otherwise then courts decided wrong, the GDPR is very clear and explicit about this: > Consent is presumed not to be freely given if [...] the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is dependent on the consent despite such consent not being necessary for such performance.
        dathinab 1y ago
        exactly IMHO this whole thing being dragged out/tolerated for this many year needs to criminal investigation into corruption and bribes
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        Even under that idea, I very strongly doubt the subscription fee is in that range.
        Freak_NL 1y ago
        It's basically the status quo for German websites. This seems legally settled for now unless some appellate court strikes it down, and even that won't happen any time soon. As a user it's just odd to see German websites do this so differently from Dutch or British websites. What should be made illegal is how all those German popups do this really grating 3D animation effect upon closing. Do you know what I mean? Not the one at heise.de, but most of these forms seem to have this built in.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- raphman 1y ago
  Oh, valid point. I actually hate heise.de's approach to hard-require consent to ad-tracking (or payment). As my university has a subscription for heise.de, I was not shown the consent popup and forgot about that. Sorry.
- adornKey 1y ago
  South Park once had a good scene about just not accepting random things that pop up (in HumancentiPad). If you see something popping up on a website - maybe just delete the pop-up from the HTML. (Click on Inspect - Examine - Delete). Heise is a bit nasty with technology, and it's a bit harder to get rid of their thing, but I can read everything without accepting anything.
- pvtmert 1y ago
  I default to the Reader mode (Safari/Firefox) such a blessing to stop any/all videos, sounds, ads, and popups. Putting the "text" back into HTTP, hyper text transfer protocol.

Better link: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Paypal-German-banks-apparently-blocked-payments-of-billions-of-euros-10622936.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Paypal-German-banks-apparently-...

chatmasta 1y ago

Maybe it’s a better link, but I can only read the content if I accept their sharing my data with 180 partners.

SLWW 1y ago
https://archive.is/6h2TN https://archive.is/6h2TN
tharkun__ 1y ago
Which is the same as many if not most of the other sites we regularly link to on HN. You just aren't told about it.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  If I have to accept it I think that's even worse than doing typical tracking behind my back. Also requiring acceptance from EU users would be a GDPR violation, I think? But it didn't ask me at all so I can't evaluate it well.
  - dod9er 1y ago
    I think it is great that they are forced to show whats going one. Otherwise we wouldnt even discuss, just no one would care.
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      Forced to show is better than going behind my back. But making me click an "accept" button is just dirty. I hate that.
      - tharkun__ 1y ago
        Nobody is making you. You are given a choice. This company needs to get paid. For that it uses ads and other means, just like everyone else does. Their list of ads, tracking and other partners happens to be around 200. They tell you and you either choose to accept that, read their content for "free" (like you use other content/apps for "free") or actually choose to say "No, if "free" costs me this, then I don't want it". And some really aren't even to "sell your data" but just their own analytics to let their dev/SRE staff see what's going on. Nothing nefarious at all. Nobody forces you to accept this and read their content. Heck, your online banking/brokerage probably uses a bunch of trackers you probably aren't aware of, because they don't tell you. Go open the network tab in dev tools and check.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        Yeah I know I could leave. But if the site won't let me say no, then it shouldn't pretend to give me an option. If they're acting like the GDPR applies, these choices are invalid. If they're not extending that courtesy, then I'd rather be left alone about it. And they're allowed to have ads without getting consent. It's the tracking that's a problem. And there's no chance in hell that data isn't being sold when there are hundreds of partners.
        tinodb 1y ago
        No, the GDPR is making _them_. Gating content behind "consent" for tracking isn't allowed. They have the choice to then show content with generic trackers.
  - tomschwiha 1y ago
    You are not required to accept the tracking. You can pay to remove tracking with their "Pur-Abo".
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      That is definitely a GDPR violation (for users in the EU). And heise.de has already gotten in trouble for this before.
      - indigo945 1y ago
        That is not a GDPR violation, no. Most German newspapers do this, and it has been tried in court - it's legal. The court only mandated that the subscription fee cannot be substantially higher than the value of the data that would have otherwise been sold.
        FeepingCreature 1y ago
        Yeah it is, if courts decided otherwise then courts decided wrong, the GDPR is very clear and explicit about this: > Consent is presumed not to be freely given if [...] the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is dependent on the consent despite such consent not being necessary for such performance.
        dathinab 1y ago
        exactly IMHO this whole thing being dragged out/tolerated for this many year needs to criminal investigation into corruption and bribes
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        Even under that idea, I very strongly doubt the subscription fee is in that range.
        Freak_NL 1y ago
        It's basically the status quo for German websites. This seems legally settled for now unless some appellate court strikes it down, and even that won't happen any time soon. As a user it's just odd to see German websites do this so differently from Dutch or British websites. What should be made illegal is how all those German popups do this really grating 3D animation effect upon closing. Do you know what I mean? Not the one at heise.de, but most of these forms seem to have this built in.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
raphman 1y ago
Oh, valid point. I actually hate heise.de's approach to hard-require consent to ad-tracking (or payment). As my university has a subscription for heise.de, I was not shown the consent popup and forgot about that. Sorry.
adornKey 1y ago
South Park once had a good scene about just not accepting random things that pop up (in HumancentiPad). If you see something popping up on a website - maybe just delete the pop-up from the HTML. (Click on Inspect - Examine - Delete). Heise is a bit nasty with technology, and it's a bit harder to get rid of their thing, but I can read everything without accepting anything.
pvtmert 1y ago
I default to the Reader mode (Safari/Firefox) such a blessing to stop any/all videos, sounds, ads, and popups. Putting the "text" back into HTTP, hyper text transfer protocol.