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Ok: your kid which has parental control can now do everything he wants with the phone. What's next?
by Almondsetat 1y ago
Ok: your kid which has parental control can now do everything he wants with the phone. What's next?
- hu3 1y agoWhy would a kid be able to bypass parental control?
- Almondsetat 1y agoThe phone is theirs, is it not?
- dns_snek 1y agoNo? In virtually all cases it was purchased by the parents who also pay the bill, so it's only theirs to use. Even if they somehow bought it with their own money, parents ultimately have the final say over how they're allowed to use it until they're 18.
- Almondsetat 1y agoSo you are saying that every teen under 18 who has had their phone bought by their parents doesn't consider it theirs?
- dns_snek 1y agoNobody is saying that. They can (and do) consider it theirs but their parents ultimately have the final say about how they're allowed to use it. Stronger protections would simply bar OEMs from imposing restrictions over how we're allowed to use our own devices. You made the argument claiming that freedom of choice and strong ownership rights will inherently allow kids to bypass parental controls when that's obviously not the case. A device can always be locked down by its legal owner or by someone's legal guardian who has a duty of care for that person. This sort of bad faith concern trolling has gotten out of hand.
- Zak 1y agoParents get to override their kids' ownership rights in other contexts, so it would reasonably be the same in this one.
- Almondsetat 1y agoBut here is the problem: just like with cryptography it's an all-or-nothing game. You can either have E2EE all of the time or none of the time. There is absolutely no mechanism that would allow your child to truly own his phone but magically allow you to take complete control of it when necessary.
- Zak 1y agoCorrect. The parent can truly own the phone and allow the child restricted access. It's reasonable for this to be true in a technical sense even if the child owns the phone in a legal sense.
- Almondsetat 1y ago>It's reasonable for this to be true in a technical sense even if the child owns the phone in a legal sense. By the same metric, it's reasonable for a consenting adult to own their phone in a legal sense while the true owner is Apple (which they willfully paid for this). So in this case yes, iPhone owners are real owners even if it's a complete walled garden.
- Zak 1y agoWhat I find unreasonable is a situation where the owner of the hardware can't back out of the arrangement (while continuing to use the hardware). Someone might initially want Apple as their sysadmin, then learn that Apple is making decisions they don't like.
- Cpoll 1y agoNot relevant; a child consenting (or "consenting") to a parental lock on their (or "their") phone isn't the same as Apple locking down their OS. Ditto an employee using a company device.
- Almondsetat 1y agoI consent to Apple controlling my device for security reasons. Again, now what?
- lentil_soup 1y agoGreat, you can have it. No need to force it on every one else
- dylan604 1y agoWhy is it that your stance isn't the wrong one? Apple sells a device that is locked down. You buy it. You then complain that it was locked down, yet you knew this from the off. They do not sell it as a general purpose compute device. It is sold as a thing that runs apps. We don't complain when Playstations will not play Xbox or Switch games. If you want to hack a device and get it do something other than what it was designed for, then that's the hacker spirit so go for it. But why does that mean we* all have to accept your way when we just want to run apps. *royal we. i do not use apps as i don't trust any of you app developers to not be shady.
- theshrike79 1y agoExactly. Everyone is so gung ho about running whatever they want on the very custom hardware Apple is selling. But then complete silence about the PS5 and Xbox, which are 99% plain old PC hardware with a custom OS. Why?
- dylan604 1y agoPS3 orig allowed yellow dog linux, and there was only a slight murmur when that feature was removed. to me that's worse as it is obvious it is possible, but only now not possible because vendor took it away compared to never allowing it from the start.
- ezfe 1y agoYou presumably own the device, not your kid
- lawlessone 1y agosure, if they buy their own phone.
- Almondsetat 1y agowhat difference does it make to have a phone between your hands and having paid for it vs. not having paid for it? does the circuitry inside somehow know you are the "rightful" owner?
- lawlessone 1y agowell presumably as the responsible parent you believe you are , you would know to set up the parental controls before giving the phone to your child. But then again you seem to be confusing parental controls with Apple controlling who can make apps for a a 3rd party store
- eikenberry 1y agoYou give your kid a smart phone when you trust them with one? The standard parental control, money. They can't afford the phone or the cellular plan on their own.