4 ms·

Exactly. If any, the US is one of those countries everybody else is afraid of. Americans may be proud of that, but that’s pure bullying.

0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
>Americans may be proud of that, but that’s pure bullying. It's slightly weird to me how foreigners seem to look on the Trump era as personifying the US to a greater degree than e.g. the Biden or Obama eras. Trump is not especially popular right now: https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker
- blackoil 1y ago
  What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". Trump isn't a surprise elected first time.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
    >What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". I don't believe collective punishment or collective guilt was ever the point of democracy, sorry. What's the point of moral reasoning, if people can blame others for events they didn't cause, simply by saying the word "democracy"?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- troad 1y ago
  And for some reason Europe is always excused from that standard, despite Orban, Fico, Meloni, Wilders, Nawrocki, Erdogan, etc etc. We're meant to believe that the 49%-to-48% election of Trump is some deep window into the eternal American psyche, but Orban's fifteen-year drive into corrupt, racist autocracy, endorsed by the voters at every turn, is just some sort of very temporary oopsie that says nothing at all about Europe. When Meloni uses her pulpit as a popular Italian prime minister to attack gay families, you don't see anyone claiming this reflects the bullying nature of the Italian people, but that's par for the course for coverage of Americans and Trump. Swathes of Poland declaring themselves "gay free zones" is an aberration from European values, whereas anything that happens in deepest Alabama is the truest reflection of the American spirit. It's mere hypocrisy.
  - buellerbueller 1y ago
    DeSantis says a lot about Florida, less so the USA. Pritzker says a lot about Illinois, less so the USA. Abbott says a lot about Texas, less so the USA. Newsom says a lot about California, less so the USA. Understand why your argument is a very poor one? If not, I have 46 more of these examples.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
    Don't forget France. The far-right party is most popular by far: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/france/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/france/ The majority of second-round polling has the far right winning the next presidency in France, potentially even by a landslide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2027_French_presidential_election#Second_round https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2027_F... For that reason, it's rather ironic to me when I see Europeans rally around Macron. France is poised to rug-pull Europe. Sorry guys. BTW, guess which party is most popular in the UK? It's not particularly close: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/ At least AfD is merely a very close #2 in Germany: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/ Europe is sleepwalking.
    - af78 1y ago
      I share your pessimism. Le Pen's far-right National Rally (RN) has had ties with the Kremlin for a long time. That alone should have discredited this party a long time ago, but no, it is ranking as high as ever, even after russia's overt invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Mélenchon's far-left "France Insoumise" party ranks very high too, and is similarly pro-russian, anti-EU, anti-NATO. In the town where I live, more than half the votes have gone to the RN these past elections. I often feel like a Cassandra.
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
        Don't worry, you'll have the pleasure of being blamed for the votes of your neighbors before much longer ;-)
- sofixa 1y ago
  > It's slightly weird to me how foreigners seem to look on the Trump era as personifying the US to a greater degree than e.g. the Biden or Obama eras. That's easy to explain. Trump is so much out there in being aggressively obnoxious, criminal, racist and senile. His platform was a list of nonsense combined blatant diminishing of rights and social progress. The fact that a majority of voting Americans chose him is irredeemable. Biden, Bush, Obama were normal candidates with pros and cons, where depending on your views, you could pick one or the other, and you could understand others who voted otherwise. Trump? I cannot understand anyone who voted for him. They were either extremely narrowly self-centred and thought they could make a buck at everyone else's expense, extremely misinformed and/or dumb, or just hate specific groups of people they know will get hurt. There's nothing redeemable in any of those. He and his voters are the personification of the "fuck you, I've got mine mindset".
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
    You say you cannot understand anyone who voted for Trump. Can you understand anyone who plans to vote for RN, the most popular political party in France by far, lead by a woman who said she shares Putin's global vision? Do I get to blame you if RN wins the presidency? Same country, after all.
    - sofixa 1y ago
      > Can you understand anyone who plans to vote for RN, the most popular political party in France by far, lead by a woman who said she shares Putin's global vision? "by far" only if you get stuck on political party; considering there has been a united left coalition for multiple years and rounds of elections, that seems purposefully omissive. United left and RN are pretty close, polls and election results wise, with the centre-right and traditional right trailing closely behind. Neither of them have anything resembling a majority though, as is reflected in the current parliament, where each block has a bit less than 30% each. And yes, I can understand them. RN's program contains points which cater to large amounts of French people, especially in rural disadvantaged areas. They're unrealistic or just fluff, mind you, but still sound good. RN is led by moderately charismatic people who have a good media presence - the party's head is Bardella, a young guy with a TikTok following who talks a decent talk. He's a nepo baby (son in law of Marine Le Pen), and mostly a grifter, but he can link a couple of phrases together and sound semi-convincing. Also, while Le Pen is a convicted criminal, it's "just" for stealing government and EU money, which a lot of people don't actually mind, and Bardella isn't. Comparing to a delusional and senile old man who is literally convicted of rape, and there is plenty of credible evidence, out in the open, is also a pedophile. With a shit program with little concrete other than fucking up groups of people. After seeing his "work" his first term. Yeah, I can understand, and probably have a discussion with an RN voter. (Those of the "black/brown people bad" variety mostly vote even further to the right, like Zemmour, those are the people I don't understand and wouldn't be able to talk with). A Trump voter? Something is seriously wrong with you to either like that, or pick your potential personal benefit over everything else.

0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago

>Americans may be proud of that, but that’s pure bullying. It's slightly weird to me how foreigners seem to look on the Trump era as personifying the US to a greater degree than e.g. the Biden or Obama eras. Trump is not especially popular right now: https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker

blackoil 1y ago
What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". Trump isn't a surprise elected first time.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
  >What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". I don't believe collective punishment or collective guilt was ever the point of democracy, sorry. What's the point of moral reasoning, if people can blame others for events they didn't cause, simply by saying the word "democracy"?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
troad 1y ago
And for some reason Europe is always excused from that standard, despite Orban, Fico, Meloni, Wilders, Nawrocki, Erdogan, etc etc. We're meant to believe that the 49%-to-48% election of Trump is some deep window into the eternal American psyche, but Orban's fifteen-year drive into corrupt, racist autocracy, endorsed by the voters at every turn, is just some sort of very temporary oopsie that says nothing at all about Europe. When Meloni uses her pulpit as a popular Italian prime minister to attack gay families, you don't see anyone claiming this reflects the bullying nature of the Italian people, but that's par for the course for coverage of Americans and Trump. Swathes of Poland declaring themselves "gay free zones" is an aberration from European values, whereas anything that happens in deepest Alabama is the truest reflection of the American spirit. It's mere hypocrisy.
- buellerbueller 1y ago
  DeSantis says a lot about Florida, less so the USA. Pritzker says a lot about Illinois, less so the USA. Abbott says a lot about Texas, less so the USA. Newsom says a lot about California, less so the USA. Understand why your argument is a very poor one? If not, I have 46 more of these examples.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
  Don't forget France. The far-right party is most popular by far: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/france/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/france/ The majority of second-round polling has the far right winning the next presidency in France, potentially even by a landslide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2027_French_presidential_election#Second_round https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2027_F... For that reason, it's rather ironic to me when I see Europeans rally around Macron. France is poised to rug-pull Europe. Sorry guys. BTW, guess which party is most popular in the UK? It's not particularly close: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/ At least AfD is merely a very close #2 in Germany: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/ Europe is sleepwalking.
  - af78 1y ago
    I share your pessimism. Le Pen's far-right National Rally (RN) has had ties with the Kremlin for a long time. That alone should have discredited this party a long time ago, but no, it is ranking as high as ever, even after russia's overt invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Mélenchon's far-left "France Insoumise" party ranks very high too, and is similarly pro-russian, anti-EU, anti-NATO. In the town where I live, more than half the votes have gone to the RN these past elections. I often feel like a Cassandra.
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
      Don't worry, you'll have the pleasure of being blamed for the votes of your neighbors before much longer ;-)
sofixa 1y ago
> It's slightly weird to me how foreigners seem to look on the Trump era as personifying the US to a greater degree than e.g. the Biden or Obama eras. That's easy to explain. Trump is so much out there in being aggressively obnoxious, criminal, racist and senile. His platform was a list of nonsense combined blatant diminishing of rights and social progress. The fact that a majority of voting Americans chose him is irredeemable. Biden, Bush, Obama were normal candidates with pros and cons, where depending on your views, you could pick one or the other, and you could understand others who voted otherwise. Trump? I cannot understand anyone who voted for him. They were either extremely narrowly self-centred and thought they could make a buck at everyone else's expense, extremely misinformed and/or dumb, or just hate specific groups of people they know will get hurt. There's nothing redeemable in any of those. He and his voters are the personification of the "fuck you, I've got mine mindset".
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
  You say you cannot understand anyone who voted for Trump. Can you understand anyone who plans to vote for RN, the most popular political party in France by far, lead by a woman who said she shares Putin's global vision? Do I get to blame you if RN wins the presidency? Same country, after all.
  - sofixa 1y ago
    > Can you understand anyone who plans to vote for RN, the most popular political party in France by far, lead by a woman who said she shares Putin's global vision? "by far" only if you get stuck on political party; considering there has been a united left coalition for multiple years and rounds of elections, that seems purposefully omissive. United left and RN are pretty close, polls and election results wise, with the centre-right and traditional right trailing closely behind. Neither of them have anything resembling a majority though, as is reflected in the current parliament, where each block has a bit less than 30% each. And yes, I can understand them. RN's program contains points which cater to large amounts of French people, especially in rural disadvantaged areas. They're unrealistic or just fluff, mind you, but still sound good. RN is led by moderately charismatic people who have a good media presence - the party's head is Bardella, a young guy with a TikTok following who talks a decent talk. He's a nepo baby (son in law of Marine Le Pen), and mostly a grifter, but he can link a couple of phrases together and sound semi-convincing. Also, while Le Pen is a convicted criminal, it's "just" for stealing government and EU money, which a lot of people don't actually mind, and Bardella isn't. Comparing to a delusional and senile old man who is literally convicted of rape, and there is plenty of credible evidence, out in the open, is also a pedophile. With a shit program with little concrete other than fucking up groups of people. After seeing his "work" his first term. Yeah, I can understand, and probably have a discussion with an RN voter. (Those of the "black/brown people bad" variety mostly vote even further to the right, like Zemmour, those are the people I don't understand and wouldn't be able to talk with). A Trump voter? Something is seriously wrong with you to either like that, or pick your potential personal benefit over everything else.