6 ms·

What 'enemies'?

by ulfw 1y ago

What 'enemies'?

baq 1y ago
haven't been reading history much, have you?
- ulfw 1y ago
  I've read a lot of history, especially 1930s European history and see a ton of parallels to America in 2025. Is that the particular one you're referring to?
nikbackm 1y ago
Geopolitical rivals then if you prefer that.
Henchman21 1y ago
How about those folks actively engaging in behavior that damages the US?
- olivierduval 1y ago
  In that regard, US is obviously Europe's enemy, isn't it ? ;-) :-D
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    Certainly they’re the enemy of this administration.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
    Worth distinguishing between actively engaging in harmful behavior, and "failing to help". The Europeans have taken the US for granted for so long that when the US is only Ukraine's #1 donor country in absolute terms by far, their main response is to complain that even more help should be offered, and pretend the US is somehow hurting them. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s... Keep in mind that Ukraine is literally on the opposite side of the world from us. What's Brazil doing for Ukraine? What's Australia doing? As an American, I consistently argue that the US should not ally with Europe here on HN. But even I don't argue in favor of actively working to harm Europe. I just think we should cut Europe loose, because nothing we do for Europe will ever be enough, and Europe is a wealthy region that's plenty capable of providing for itself. And before you say anything about tariffs (which are paid by US companies btw), read this article: https://archive.is/MxUAa https://archive.is/MxUAa See also https://archive.is/WQQ45 https://archive.is/WQQ45
    - rswail 1y ago
      What's Australia doing? Around $1.5B (AUD) so far, Bushmasters, 50 M1A1s, M113s, training, etc. We didn't sign the Budapest Memorandum, neither are we part of NATO, but we do our part, as we did in Afghanistan, Iraq (after the lies about WMD), in the Red Sea and other international events. Oh and on the articles you quoted, some of the biggest fines were from the UK, which is not part of the EU. As for tariffs, the US upended 80 years of work on international trade, with Trump applying tariffs without any underlying criteria except his complete misunderstanding of the difference between a trade deficit and bad trade. The US has maintained its currency's dominance for all of the post WW2 era, which has allowed you to borrow and spend in a currency that everyone else has to support to be able to buy things like oil. As an American, you should realize that in the last 6 months, the US has decided to abdicate its leadership, and as oil becomes less important to world trade, the USD will start to lose its dominance over trade, which means that your debts will have to be paid back in other currencies while the tariffs do nothing but damage the US consumers and economy in general. Very dumb on your part.
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
        >Around $1.5B (AUD) so far, Bushmasters, 50 M1A1s, M113s, training, etc. As a fraction of GDP, Australia is an order of magnitude below the US. See map at the top here: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s... We literally gave almost 10x as much as you on a per-GDP basis, yet we're still the bad guy. This is why I'm an isolationist. Did you know that "Kevin", a common name in the US, is one of Europe's favorite insults? >We didn't sign the Budapest Memorandum The Budapest Memorandum is frequently misrepresented online. There's no promise to defend Ukraine in the text. Read it here: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/P... All the US promised in the Memorandum was to seek UN Security Council assistance if Ukraine was victimized. We went far beyond that. Think about it: why would Ukraine be so desperate for NATO membership, if the "defense promise" in the Memorandum was already broken? Because there was no meaningful defense promise in the Memorandum! That is simply a malicious lie about the US that's very widespread online. Again, this is why I'm an isolationist. I give up. Our "allies" will hate us no matter what we do. I've figured it out. I want to be Switzerland. We'll worry about our continent, and you worry about yours.
- buellerbueller 1y ago
  We have met they enemy and they are ours.
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    Indeed. People have forgotten the word traitor.
tkiolp4 1y ago
Exactly. If any, the US is one of those countries everybody else is afraid of. Americans may be proud of that, but that’s pure bullying.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
  >Americans may be proud of that, but that’s pure bullying. It's slightly weird to me how foreigners seem to look on the Trump era as personifying the US to a greater degree than e.g. the Biden or Obama eras. Trump is not especially popular right now: https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker
  - blackoil 1y ago
    What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". Trump isn't a surprise elected first time.
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
      >What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". I don't believe collective punishment or collective guilt was ever the point of democracy, sorry. What's the point of moral reasoning, if people can blame others for events they didn't cause, simply by saying the word "democracy"?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - troad 1y ago
    And for some reason Europe is always excused from that standard, despite Orban, Fico, Meloni, Wilders, Nawrocki, Erdogan, etc etc. We're meant to believe that the 49%-to-48% election of Trump is some deep window into the eternal American psyche, but Orban's fifteen-year drive into corrupt, racist autocracy, endorsed by the voters at every turn, is just some sort of very temporary oopsie that says nothing at all about Europe. When Meloni uses her pulpit as a popular Italian prime minister to attack gay families, you don't see anyone claiming this reflects the bullying nature of the Italian people, but that's par for the course for coverage of Americans and Trump. Swathes of Poland declaring themselves "gay free zones" is an aberration from European values, whereas anything that happens in deepest Alabama is the truest reflection of the American spirit. It's mere hypocrisy.

What 'enemies'?

by ulfw 1y ago

What 'enemies'?

baq 1y ago

haven't been reading history much, have you?

ulfw 1y ago
I've read a lot of history, especially 1930s European history and see a ton of parallels to America in 2025. Is that the particular one you're referring to?

nikbackm 1y ago

Geopolitical rivals then if you prefer that.

Henchman21 1y ago

How about those folks actively engaging in behavior that damages the US?

olivierduval 1y ago
In that regard, US is obviously Europe's enemy, isn't it ? ;-) :-D
- Henchman21 1y ago
  Certainly they’re the enemy of this administration.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
  Worth distinguishing between actively engaging in harmful behavior, and "failing to help". The Europeans have taken the US for granted for so long that when the US is only Ukraine's #1 donor country in absolute terms by far, their main response is to complain that even more help should be offered, and pretend the US is somehow hurting them. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s... Keep in mind that Ukraine is literally on the opposite side of the world from us. What's Brazil doing for Ukraine? What's Australia doing? As an American, I consistently argue that the US should not ally with Europe here on HN. But even I don't argue in favor of actively working to harm Europe. I just think we should cut Europe loose, because nothing we do for Europe will ever be enough, and Europe is a wealthy region that's plenty capable of providing for itself. And before you say anything about tariffs (which are paid by US companies btw), read this article: https://archive.is/MxUAa https://archive.is/MxUAa See also https://archive.is/WQQ45 https://archive.is/WQQ45
  - rswail 1y ago
    What's Australia doing? Around $1.5B (AUD) so far, Bushmasters, 50 M1A1s, M113s, training, etc. We didn't sign the Budapest Memorandum, neither are we part of NATO, but we do our part, as we did in Afghanistan, Iraq (after the lies about WMD), in the Red Sea and other international events. Oh and on the articles you quoted, some of the biggest fines were from the UK, which is not part of the EU. As for tariffs, the US upended 80 years of work on international trade, with Trump applying tariffs without any underlying criteria except his complete misunderstanding of the difference between a trade deficit and bad trade. The US has maintained its currency's dominance for all of the post WW2 era, which has allowed you to borrow and spend in a currency that everyone else has to support to be able to buy things like oil. As an American, you should realize that in the last 6 months, the US has decided to abdicate its leadership, and as oil becomes less important to world trade, the USD will start to lose its dominance over trade, which means that your debts will have to be paid back in other currencies while the tariffs do nothing but damage the US consumers and economy in general. Very dumb on your part.
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
      >Around $1.5B (AUD) so far, Bushmasters, 50 M1A1s, M113s, training, etc. As a fraction of GDP, Australia is an order of magnitude below the US. See map at the top here: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s... We literally gave almost 10x as much as you on a per-GDP basis, yet we're still the bad guy. This is why I'm an isolationist. Did you know that "Kevin", a common name in the US, is one of Europe's favorite insults? >We didn't sign the Budapest Memorandum The Budapest Memorandum is frequently misrepresented online. There's no promise to defend Ukraine in the text. Read it here: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/P... All the US promised in the Memorandum was to seek UN Security Council assistance if Ukraine was victimized. We went far beyond that. Think about it: why would Ukraine be so desperate for NATO membership, if the "defense promise" in the Memorandum was already broken? Because there was no meaningful defense promise in the Memorandum! That is simply a malicious lie about the US that's very widespread online. Again, this is why I'm an isolationist. I give up. Our "allies" will hate us no matter what we do. I've figured it out. I want to be Switzerland. We'll worry about our continent, and you worry about yours.
buellerbueller 1y ago
We have met they enemy and they are ours.
- Henchman21 1y ago
  Indeed. People have forgotten the word traitor.

tkiolp4 1y ago

Exactly. If any, the US is one of those countries everybody else is afraid of. Americans may be proud of that, but that’s pure bullying.

0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
>Americans may be proud of that, but that’s pure bullying. It's slightly weird to me how foreigners seem to look on the Trump era as personifying the US to a greater degree than e.g. the Biden or Obama eras. Trump is not especially popular right now: https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker
- blackoil 1y ago
  What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". Trump isn't a surprise elected first time.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 1y ago
    >What's the point of democracy if people are absolved by simply claiming "not my president". I don't believe collective punishment or collective guilt was ever the point of democracy, sorry. What's the point of moral reasoning, if people can blame others for events they didn't cause, simply by saying the word "democracy"?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- troad 1y ago
  And for some reason Europe is always excused from that standard, despite Orban, Fico, Meloni, Wilders, Nawrocki, Erdogan, etc etc. We're meant to believe that the 49%-to-48% election of Trump is some deep window into the eternal American psyche, but Orban's fifteen-year drive into corrupt, racist autocracy, endorsed by the voters at every turn, is just some sort of very temporary oopsie that says nothing at all about Europe. When Meloni uses her pulpit as a popular Italian prime minister to attack gay families, you don't see anyone claiming this reflects the bullying nature of the Italian people, but that's par for the course for coverage of Americans and Trump. Swathes of Poland declaring themselves "gay free zones" is an aberration from European values, whereas anything that happens in deepest Alabama is the truest reflection of the American spirit. It's mere hypocrisy.