5 ms·

Tariffs are essentially just a sneaky way to tax the consumer who ends up paying for this.

by shmerl 1y ago

randunel 1y ago
Sony actually made Europeans and Australians pay for US consumers' tariffs. They raised prices everywhere else to keep US prices unchanged.
- kjkjadksj 1y ago
  They were very recently announced to go up for the US PS5 as well.
  - esalman 1y ago
    Yes, as soon as the inventory runs out.
- senectus1 1y ago
  lol.. hampering the sales globally so that you can look good to the man-child emperor. Remember future contenders... bribery is legal now.
  - Guthur 1y ago
    It has been legal for quite some time, why do you think companies and high worth individuals provide so much money to the political elites, and quite often to both sides. It's just that Trump is quite vulgar and has thrown out any pretense, but they were all quite guilty.
- shmerl 1y ago
  It ends up working like the sales tax. Officially it's the seller who is obligated to pay it, but it's the buyer who ends up paying it anyway.
- Congeec 1y ago
  Not true for camera gears in the US https://petapixel.com/2025/05/19/those-rumored-sony-price-increases-appear-to-be-real/ https://petapixel.com/2025/05/19/those-rumored-sony-price-in... Also, lo, PS5 https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1my6t3o/sony_discounts_the_ps5_in_china_after_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1my6t3o/sony_discounts...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- esalman 1y ago
  That's cute, so are they eating the tariff costs yet?
hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
Are they really that sneaky? Literally every economist who's not trying to give Trump a handy says this is the obvious outcome of tariffs (heck, the entire way that tariffs protect native jobs is by making foreign goods more expensive so native goods, which are more expensive to produce due to higher labor costs/lower productivity, are competitive). Saying stuff like "China will pay the tariffs" was always bloviating fantasy to anyone who can stitch 2 brain cells together to make a coherent thought.
- shmerl 1y ago
  Sneaky in the sense that it was sold to the masses as not being being a tax on them, while it very practically is. You'd think this is obvious, but you'd think people wouldn't vote for such ones either in the first place.
- rayiner 1y ago
  The Obama folks were correct about demographics being destiny: https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2012/07/demographics-are-destiny-129300 https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2012/07/demographi.... Mass immigration killed the Mccain/Romney GOP. What they overlooked is that, the vacuum would be filled by a right wing party that looks more like the right wing parties you see in the rest of the world. Trump, with his lying and outright vote buying (No Taxes on Tips) is the kind of right wing candidate that can win enough immigrants to be nationally viable. Blue Rose research estimates Trump tied with naturalized citizens. Little Bangladesh in Queens swung 50 points to the right from 2020. Populist rhetoric unrooted in facts is really popular among third world voters.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    A lot of Muslims voted for Trump as a protest against Biden’s support for Israel. They just didn’t realize that Trump’s solution to the Gaza conflict would be to turn Gaza into a resort without Gazans.
    - rayiner 1y ago
rayiner 1y ago
The economic incidence of tariffs (like any tax) depends on elasticity. But yes, in general, some portion of the tax will be passed onto consumers. So what? Economists agree that taxing consumption is better than taxing income or capital gains: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/19/157047211/six-policies-economists-love-and-politicians-hate https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/19/157047211/six-... (points 3 and 4). A tariff is a consumption tax that’s less than 100% passed onto consumers, which has the effect of discouraging imports. All good things.
- shmerl 1y ago
  It's not about so what, it's about how many are brainwashed not to understand the obvious thinking they'll get tax reductions, while they are getting tax increases in practice. Same ones elected these people in the first place.
- hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
  It's a giant pet peeve of mine when people post a link that very superficially backs their argument, but then when you go and read it, it directly contradicts their point. Critical sentence from point 4: "Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households." Tariffs are the exact opposite of that, they're highly regressive.
  - shmerl 1y ago
    Exactly. Unlike income tax, tariffs don't depend on income.
  - JKCalhoun 1y ago
    How do you design a progressive consumption tax? Tax only private jets and yachts? Wondering why raising higher-bracket income tax is such a problem.
    - hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
      > How do you design a progressive consumption tax? Tax only private jets and yachts? There are lots of ways to design a progressive consumption tax, but yes, one way is to tax luxury goods at a higher rate than essentials. This is already done in many states, for example, where groceries (or at least "basic" groceries like bread, milk and produce but not prepared foods) are exempt from sales tax. Another way is a sales tax rebate, e.g. where everyone can file for a rebate of sales tax of, say, the first $10000 of goods in a year. So poorer people with lower expenditures end up having a much lower effective tax rate.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
So regressive…

Tariffs are essentially just a sneaky way to tax the consumer who ends up paying for this.

by shmerl 1y ago

Tariffs are essentially just a sneaky way to tax the consumer who ends up paying for this.

Sony actually made Europeans and Australians pay for US consumers' tariffs. They raised prices everywhere else to keep US prices unchanged.

kjkjadksj 1y ago
They were very recently announced to go up for the US PS5 as well.
- esalman 1y ago
  Yes, as soon as the inventory runs out.
senectus1 1y ago
lol.. hampering the sales globally so that you can look good to the man-child emperor. Remember future contenders... bribery is legal now.
- Guthur 1y ago
  It has been legal for quite some time, why do you think companies and high worth individuals provide so much money to the political elites, and quite often to both sides. It's just that Trump is quite vulgar and has thrown out any pretense, but they were all quite guilty.
shmerl 1y ago
It ends up working like the sales tax. Officially it's the seller who is obligated to pay it, but it's the buyer who ends up paying it anyway.
Congeec 1y ago
Not true for camera gears in the US https://petapixel.com/2025/05/19/those-rumored-sony-price-increases-appear-to-be-real/ https://petapixel.com/2025/05/19/those-rumored-sony-price-in... Also, lo, PS5 https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1my6t3o/sony_discounts_the_ps5_in_china_after_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1my6t3o/sony_discounts...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
esalman 1y ago
That's cute, so are they eating the tariff costs yet?

hn_throwaway_99 1y ago

Are they really that sneaky? Literally every economist who's not trying to give Trump a handy says this is the obvious outcome of tariffs (heck, the entire way that tariffs protect native jobs is by making foreign goods more expensive so native goods, which are more expensive to produce due to higher labor costs/lower productivity, are competitive). Saying stuff like "China will pay the tariffs" was always bloviating fantasy to anyone who can stitch 2 brain cells together to make a coherent thought.

shmerl 1y ago
Sneaky in the sense that it was sold to the masses as not being being a tax on them, while it very practically is. You'd think this is obvious, but you'd think people wouldn't vote for such ones either in the first place.
rayiner 1y ago
The Obama folks were correct about demographics being destiny: https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2012/07/demographics-are-destiny-129300 https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2012/07/demographi.... Mass immigration killed the Mccain/Romney GOP. What they overlooked is that, the vacuum would be filled by a right wing party that looks more like the right wing parties you see in the rest of the world. Trump, with his lying and outright vote buying (No Taxes on Tips) is the kind of right wing candidate that can win enough immigrants to be nationally viable. Blue Rose research estimates Trump tied with naturalized citizens. Little Bangladesh in Queens swung 50 points to the right from 2020. Populist rhetoric unrooted in facts is really popular among third world voters.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  A lot of Muslims voted for Trump as a protest against Biden’s support for Israel. They just didn’t realize that Trump’s solution to the Gaza conflict would be to turn Gaza into a resort without Gazans.
  - rayiner 1y ago

rayiner 1y ago

The economic incidence of tariffs (like any tax) depends on elasticity. But yes, in general, some portion of the tax will be passed onto consumers. So what? Economists agree that taxing consumption is better than taxing income or capital gains: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/19/157047211/six-policies-economists-love-and-politicians-hate https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/19/157047211/six-... (points 3 and 4). A tariff is a consumption tax that’s less than 100% passed onto consumers, which has the effect of discouraging imports. All good things.

shmerl 1y ago
It's not about so what, it's about how many are brainwashed not to understand the obvious thinking they'll get tax reductions, while they are getting tax increases in practice. Same ones elected these people in the first place.
hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
It's a giant pet peeve of mine when people post a link that very superficially backs their argument, but then when you go and read it, it directly contradicts their point. Critical sentence from point 4: "Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households." Tariffs are the exact opposite of that, they're highly regressive.
- shmerl 1y ago
  Exactly. Unlike income tax, tariffs don't depend on income.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  How do you design a progressive consumption tax? Tax only private jets and yachts? Wondering why raising higher-bracket income tax is such a problem.
  - hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
    > How do you design a progressive consumption tax? Tax only private jets and yachts? There are lots of ways to design a progressive consumption tax, but yes, one way is to tax luxury goods at a higher rate than essentials. This is already done in many states, for example, where groceries (or at least "basic" groceries like bread, milk and produce but not prepared foods) are exempt from sales tax. Another way is a sales tax rebate, e.g. where everyone can file for a rebate of sales tax of, say, the first $10000 of goods in a year. So poorer people with lower expenditures end up having a much lower effective tax rate.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

So regressive…