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"Visiting the website" is the method. It's nonsense to say that visiting from a different location is a different method. I don't care if you won those disput

"Visiting the website" is the method. It's nonsense to say that visiting from a different location is a different method. I don't care if you won those disputes, you did a bad thing and screwed over your customers.

closewith 1y ago
> Visiting the website" is the method. It's nonsense to say that visiting from a different location is a different method. This is a naive view of the internet that does not stand the test of legislative reality. It's perfectly reasonable (and in our case was only path to compliance) to limit access to certain geographic locations. > I don't care if you won those disputes, you did a bad thing and screwed over your customers. In our case, our customers were trying to commit friendly fraud by requesting a chargeback because they didn't like a geoblock, which is also what the GP was suggesting. Using chargebacks this way is nearly unique to the US and thankfully EU banks will deny such frivolous claims.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  The ancestor post was about being unable to get support for a product, so I thought you were talking about the same situation. Refusal to support is a legitimate grievance. Are you saying they tried a chargeback just because they were annoyed at being unable to reach your website? Something doesn't add up here, or am I giving those customers too much credit? Were you selling them an ongoing website-based service? Then the fair thing would usually be a prorated refund when they change country. A chargeback is bad but keeping all their money while only doing half your job is also bad.
  - closewith 1y ago
    If you read back in the thread, we're talking about the claim that adding geoblocking will result in chargebacks, which outside the US, it won't. > Are you saying they tried a chargeback just because they were annoyed at being unable to reach your website? In our case it was friendly fraud when users tried to use a service which we could not provide in the US (and many other countries due to compliance reasons) and had signed up in the EU, possibly via VPN.
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      > If you read back in the thread, we're talking about the claim that adding geoblocking will result in chargebacks, which outside the US, it won't. As a response to someone talking about customers traveling and needing support. But yeah geoblocks can occur in different situations with different appropriate resolutions. > In our case it was friendly fraud when users tried to use a service which we could not provide in the US (and many other countries due to compliance reasons) and had signed up in the EU, possibly via VPN. If you provided zero service at all, they should get their money back. And calling a chargeback in that situation "friendly fraud" is ridiculous. If they weren't even asking for a refund and using a chargeback out of spite, that's bad, but that's a different problem from fraud. For someone that did sign up via VPN, would they be able to access the cancellation page via VPN?
      - closewith 1y ago
        > If you provided zero service at all, they should get their money back. And calling a chargeback in that situation "friendly fraud" is ridiculous. No, if a company upholds their side of a contract, the customer must too, within the bounds of the law. A chargeback in that situation is the _definition_ of "friendly fraud" and is actual criminal fraud. > If they weren't even asking for a refund and using a chargeback out of spite, that's bad, but that's a different problem from fraud. That's also criminal fraud. US consumer are often shocked that "customer is always right" customer service doesn't extend beyond their borders and that they can't chargeback their way out of contracts they've signed. > For someone that did sign up via VPN, would they be able to access the cancellation page via VPN? It doesn't matter. If our terms prohibited VPN use to avoid geoblocking (which they did), it's irrelevant whether your VPN can or cannot access the cancellation page on a given day. You can email or write to us. All perfectly legal, lawful, and backed by merchant account providers.
        lxgr 1y ago
        > You can email or write to us. How do I find your email or postal address if you're blocking every request from a given region? My original point was about companies that do that. If you're not, I agree that there's much less of a problem (some jurisdictions require online cancellation methods, though).

closewith 1y ago

> Visiting the website" is the method. It's nonsense to say that visiting from a different location is a different method. This is a naive view of the internet that does not stand the test of legislative reality. It's perfectly reasonable (and in our case was only path to compliance) to limit access to certain geographic locations. > I don't care if you won those disputes, you did a bad thing and screwed over your customers. In our case, our customers were trying to commit friendly fraud by requesting a chargeback because they didn't like a geoblock, which is also what the GP was suggesting. Using chargebacks this way is nearly unique to the US and thankfully EU banks will deny such frivolous claims.

Dylan16807 1y ago
The ancestor post was about being unable to get support for a product, so I thought you were talking about the same situation. Refusal to support is a legitimate grievance. Are you saying they tried a chargeback just because they were annoyed at being unable to reach your website? Something doesn't add up here, or am I giving those customers too much credit? Were you selling them an ongoing website-based service? Then the fair thing would usually be a prorated refund when they change country. A chargeback is bad but keeping all their money while only doing half your job is also bad.
- closewith 1y ago
  If you read back in the thread, we're talking about the claim that adding geoblocking will result in chargebacks, which outside the US, it won't. > Are you saying they tried a chargeback just because they were annoyed at being unable to reach your website? In our case it was friendly fraud when users tried to use a service which we could not provide in the US (and many other countries due to compliance reasons) and had signed up in the EU, possibly via VPN.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    > If you read back in the thread, we're talking about the claim that adding geoblocking will result in chargebacks, which outside the US, it won't. As a response to someone talking about customers traveling and needing support. But yeah geoblocks can occur in different situations with different appropriate resolutions. > In our case it was friendly fraud when users tried to use a service which we could not provide in the US (and many other countries due to compliance reasons) and had signed up in the EU, possibly via VPN. If you provided zero service at all, they should get their money back. And calling a chargeback in that situation "friendly fraud" is ridiculous. If they weren't even asking for a refund and using a chargeback out of spite, that's bad, but that's a different problem from fraud. For someone that did sign up via VPN, would they be able to access the cancellation page via VPN?
    - closewith 1y ago
      > If you provided zero service at all, they should get their money back. And calling a chargeback in that situation "friendly fraud" is ridiculous. No, if a company upholds their side of a contract, the customer must too, within the bounds of the law. A chargeback in that situation is the _definition_ of "friendly fraud" and is actual criminal fraud. > If they weren't even asking for a refund and using a chargeback out of spite, that's bad, but that's a different problem from fraud. That's also criminal fraud. US consumer are often shocked that "customer is always right" customer service doesn't extend beyond their borders and that they can't chargeback their way out of contracts they've signed. > For someone that did sign up via VPN, would they be able to access the cancellation page via VPN? It doesn't matter. If our terms prohibited VPN use to avoid geoblocking (which they did), it's irrelevant whether your VPN can or cannot access the cancellation page on a given day. You can email or write to us. All perfectly legal, lawful, and backed by merchant account providers.
      - lxgr 1y ago
        > You can email or write to us. How do I find your email or postal address if you're blocking every request from a given region? My original point was about companies that do that. If you're not, I agree that there's much less of a problem (some jurisdictions require online cancellation methods, though).