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It's socialism, after all, for the Government to own an interest in a company. Covered yesterday on YC.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44989773 h

It's socialism, after all, for the Government to own an interest in a company. Covered yesterday on YC.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44989773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44989773

aspenmayer 1y ago
> It's socialism, after all, for the Government to own an interest in a company. > Covered yesterday on YC.[1] > [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44989773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44989773 The post from yesterday was news; this is commentary, as in, not a dupe. To your point, it's arguably closer to state capitalism, which may be a distinction without a difference if you paint it with the same brush as socialism, but it's one worth mentioning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism The name of the (sub)site we're posting on is HN; YC is the host. :P
- Animats 1y ago
  The phrase "lemon socialism" used to be applied to the UK. The Government had managed to acquire the steel industry, the railroad industry, and the auto industry - all dying industries in the UK. They became British Steel, British Rail, and British Leyland. The end result wasn't good. They turned into jobs programs. Eventually those were privatized. Now, the railroads are being socialized again.
  - aspenmayer 1y ago
    It's a pendulum effect, with nationalization on one end, and privatization on the other. If capitalism and money itself is the best organizing principle that works around the world, it does limit the opportunities for change and growth. Socialism doesn't have a counter to the market principle, so they can only incorporate it. The US has a branding problem; freedom ain't free, but nobody even votes, so we earned what we got.
- crooked-v 1y ago
  "capitalism with American characteristics"
  - aspenmayer 1y ago
    > "capitalism with American characteristics" China is trying to beat US at its own game. US (or at least its current political leader) is trying to beat Russia at its own game. Russia is trying to remain relevant. Russia is the muscle, China is the finance. China needs Russia just like Google (Chrome) needs Firefox. Without Russia around, China would get all of the attention instead. Without Firefox existing, Google would have no counter to antitrust allegations in the web browser space. Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you. No, not like that! It's like that Spider-Man meme where everyone is Spider-Man pointing their fingers at each other. All the power structures are mirroring each other. It's all kayfabe, all the time. Everything is wrestling. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/magazine/is-everything-wrestling.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/magazine/is-everything-wr... | https://archive.is/muwUp https://archive.is/muwUp
boredatoms 1y ago
We can finally get that universal healthcare then
- aspenmayer 1y ago
  The healthcare industry doesn't need a bailout, though, so the US has no leverage to demand 10% of healthcare companies' stocks.
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    The “US” you are referring to no longer exists. It has been replaced by a combo of North Korea and Venezuela :)
  - TehCorwiz 1y ago
    The healthcare industry as it is is dominated by parasitic middlemen sucking the money from both patient and provider.
  - vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
    The healthcare industry is receiving perpetual bailouts through drug import restrictions, tax deductions, subsidies and favorable legislation.
    - aspenmayer 1y ago
      > The healthcare industry is receiving perpetual bailouts through drug import restrictions, tax deductions, subsidies and favorable legislation. The chip fab industry builds billion dollar bespoke superfund sites, and they're paid for the privilege. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv65swcp.5 https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv65swcp.5 | https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctv65swcp.5 https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctv65swcp.5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund
  - kelnos 1y ago
    > the US has no leverage to demand 10% of healthcare companies' stocks The US government doesn't need leverage. It just needs an act of Congress. Corporations are convenient fictions that exist at the pleasure of our legal system, which can be changed.
krapp 1y ago
Unless the workers own the means of production, it isn't socialism. The government is just another agent of capitalism here. Can we call this sparkling capitalism?
- testrun 1y ago
  I think this war is lost. The word socialism means different things to different people. It all depends on where you stand and what you are looking at. If you are on the far right, most things the government does is socialism. If you are on the far left, everything the government does is to support capitalism. And in between the two everything goes.
  - johnecheck 1y ago
    I frequently say the same thing about the word Capitalism. (Communism too). They're second only to 'god' in terms of historical baggage. If you say 'I like Capitalism', a significant minority will hear 'I love US imperialism and hate nature', despite that almost certainly not being what you meant. Similarly, if you say 'I like Communism', many hear 'I love dictators, gulags, 5 year plans and famine'. A word of advice: if you actually want to have valuable political conversations with people, don't start by identifying yourself with ideology that's arguably responsible for various atrocities and millions of deaths.
    - krapp 1y ago
      > if you actually want to have valuable political conversations with people, don't start by identifying yourself with ideology that's arguably responsible for various atrocities and millions of deaths. So neither capitalism nor communism? What's left, anarchism? I guess they haven't killed that many people.
      - kelnos 1y ago
        The point is to stop making economic systems a part of your identity. Talk about policies and their effects, not about what bucket you might put them (and yourself) in.
petralithic 1y ago
Minor state capitalism, nit socialism.

aspenmayer 1y ago

> It's socialism, after all, for the Government to own an interest in a company. > Covered yesterday on YC.[1] > [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44989773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44989773 The post from yesterday was news; this is commentary, as in, not a dupe. To your point, it's arguably closer to state capitalism, which may be a distinction without a difference if you paint it with the same brush as socialism, but it's one worth mentioning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism The name of the (sub)site we're posting on is HN; YC is the host. :P

Animats 1y ago
The phrase "lemon socialism" used to be applied to the UK. The Government had managed to acquire the steel industry, the railroad industry, and the auto industry - all dying industries in the UK. They became British Steel, British Rail, and British Leyland. The end result wasn't good. They turned into jobs programs. Eventually those were privatized. Now, the railroads are being socialized again.
- aspenmayer 1y ago
  It's a pendulum effect, with nationalization on one end, and privatization on the other. If capitalism and money itself is the best organizing principle that works around the world, it does limit the opportunities for change and growth. Socialism doesn't have a counter to the market principle, so they can only incorporate it. The US has a branding problem; freedom ain't free, but nobody even votes, so we earned what we got.
crooked-v 1y ago
"capitalism with American characteristics"
- aspenmayer 1y ago
  > "capitalism with American characteristics" China is trying to beat US at its own game. US (or at least its current political leader) is trying to beat Russia at its own game. Russia is trying to remain relevant. Russia is the muscle, China is the finance. China needs Russia just like Google (Chrome) needs Firefox. Without Russia around, China would get all of the attention instead. Without Firefox existing, Google would have no counter to antitrust allegations in the web browser space. Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you. No, not like that! It's like that Spider-Man meme where everyone is Spider-Man pointing their fingers at each other. All the power structures are mirroring each other. It's all kayfabe, all the time. Everything is wrestling. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/magazine/is-everything-wrestling.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/magazine/is-everything-wr... | https://archive.is/muwUp https://archive.is/muwUp

boredatoms 1y ago

We can finally get that universal healthcare then

aspenmayer 1y ago
The healthcare industry doesn't need a bailout, though, so the US has no leverage to demand 10% of healthcare companies' stocks.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  The “US” you are referring to no longer exists. It has been replaced by a combo of North Korea and Venezuela :)
- TehCorwiz 1y ago
  The healthcare industry as it is is dominated by parasitic middlemen sucking the money from both patient and provider.
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
  The healthcare industry is receiving perpetual bailouts through drug import restrictions, tax deductions, subsidies and favorable legislation.
  - aspenmayer 1y ago
    > The healthcare industry is receiving perpetual bailouts through drug import restrictions, tax deductions, subsidies and favorable legislation. The chip fab industry builds billion dollar bespoke superfund sites, and they're paid for the privilege. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv65swcp.5 https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv65swcp.5 | https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctv65swcp.5 https://doi.org/10.2307/j.ctv65swcp.5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund
- kelnos 1y ago
  > the US has no leverage to demand 10% of healthcare companies' stocks The US government doesn't need leverage. It just needs an act of Congress. Corporations are convenient fictions that exist at the pleasure of our legal system, which can be changed.

krapp 1y ago

Unless the workers own the means of production, it isn't socialism. The government is just another agent of capitalism here. Can we call this sparkling capitalism?

testrun 1y ago
I think this war is lost. The word socialism means different things to different people. It all depends on where you stand and what you are looking at. If you are on the far right, most things the government does is socialism. If you are on the far left, everything the government does is to support capitalism. And in between the two everything goes.
- johnecheck 1y ago
  I frequently say the same thing about the word Capitalism. (Communism too). They're second only to 'god' in terms of historical baggage. If you say 'I like Capitalism', a significant minority will hear 'I love US imperialism and hate nature', despite that almost certainly not being what you meant. Similarly, if you say 'I like Communism', many hear 'I love dictators, gulags, 5 year plans and famine'. A word of advice: if you actually want to have valuable political conversations with people, don't start by identifying yourself with ideology that's arguably responsible for various atrocities and millions of deaths.
  - krapp 1y ago
    > if you actually want to have valuable political conversations with people, don't start by identifying yourself with ideology that's arguably responsible for various atrocities and millions of deaths. So neither capitalism nor communism? What's left, anarchism? I guess they haven't killed that many people.
    - kelnos 1y ago
      The point is to stop making economic systems a part of your identity. Talk about policies and their effects, not about what bucket you might put them (and yourself) in.

petralithic 1y ago

Minor state capitalism, nit socialism.