7 ms·

The city where I live estimates that we lose somewhere between 25% and 30% of drinkable water to leaky infrastructure. We've had something close to a drought t

The city where I live estimates that we lose somewhere between 25% and 30% of drinkable water to leaky infrastructure. We've had something close to a drought this summer -- unseasonally long periods without rain. You can see the young trees on the streets and trees in the middle of large parks suffer from it - wilted leaves and leaves dropping earlier than usual. BUT, large old trees seem to be thriving - full canopies, lush, firm leaves. I've been suspecting the big street trees do so well because they benefit from the dilapidated state of our water delivery infra. It's nice to read of a study that confirms my amateur observations and musings.

devnullbrain 1y ago
Older, bigger plants have roots that go deeper and have access to more water. You can see the same effect in gardens, where new plants wilt sooner than established plants (and the care instructions advise frequent watering for the first couple of weeks).
- reactordev 1y ago
  Both are facts and both are true. Big trees, with their deeper, longer roots - have access to more leaky infrastructure. Or are the cause of it.
- kulahan 1y ago
  Tree roots stay surprisingly shallow for the most part. Generally, 90% of the roots are in the top 2' of soil.
Spooky23 1y ago
That’s really high. There’s either a big problem in your city, or they are making generous estimates to justify asking for more capital. 10-15% is more typical. In my region, the street trees are usually getting sewer water. Residential service in older houses are usually clay pipes with lead solder that the tree infiltrates. It’s not a problem until the clay pops and roots clog it. It varies a lot by region and jurisdiction. One of the cities near me made the mistake of using riveted pipe from rolled steel to save money 75 years ago, and regularly has catastrophic main breaks as the rivets aren’t as robust as a regular pipe.
- mlinhares 1y ago
  TIL clay pipes are a thing but it does make a lot of sense there would be.
  - close04 1y ago
    These are probably the longest lasting option we have right now, and is far more eco-friendly than the closest alternatives, plastics or concrete.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  Here in Germany, we estimate sewer infrastructure to last anywhere from 50-100 years, and water mains around 50-ish years. After that, it needs replacement or, that's the modern thing but it's a one-trick pony, re-lining. The prudent thing would be to set aside and invest a tiny bit of money every year to fund a replacement, but unfortunately modern economic theory ("run lean") and manufactured income crises (aka, politicians going for lower taxes and utility rates) have led to a lot of infrastructure being utterly dilapidated and no savings left, and now we need to invest untold billions of euros raised from debt to keep it running. Unfortunately, a lot of the deciders are already dead, and for those that still live, it's fallen out of favor to hold them accountable.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Smart is to have a crew that replaces a little every year. That way they build expertise in how to do it and there isn't a large expense all at once. You can likely get a discount with private plumbers because you want it done sometime and so they schedlue around other customers who want it now.
    - estimator7292 1y ago
      That doesn't track because the real cost to replacing underground infrastructure is not the digging, materials, or labor. We avoid such maintenance as long as possible because shutting down a road is usually very expensive in terms of second-order effects. Digging up a pipe and replacing it is actually pretty cheap and easy. Disrupting a main thoroughfare is incredibly expensive in terms of lost productivity, transport, shipping.
kurthr 1y ago
Austin is close to 50% leakage. Now up to 110gal/day per connection in 2024. https://www.kxan.com/investigations/city-of-austin-pipes-leaked-9-3-billion-gallons-in-2024/ https://www.kxan.com/investigations/city-of-austin-pipes-lea...
- lrivers 1y ago
  I did some back of the envelope calculations and it looked to me that the leakage would fill Lake Austin from empty to the brim. That’s a lot of water
  - prasadjoglekar 1y ago
    This is one example of why I've stopped listening to climate change alarmists. Instead of doing the grunt work of local utility maintenance, it's so much easier to blame "climate change". The climate may be changing, but it's a convenient excuses to not do anything. Another example - in NYC a few years back, several people died when floodwaters entered their basement homes. Mayor De Blasio: Climate change. Local resident: you guys didn't clean out the drains, it's all clogged.
    - teachrdan 1y ago
      > This is one example of why I've stopped listening to climate change alarmists. I'm not sure if I understand your logic. People who advocate to stop climate change (alarmists?) literally never use is as a convenient excuse "not to do anything." If you could provide an example I'd be happy to take that statement back. Instead, the point is that, due to climate change, we're having more and more instances where something as trivial as a clogged drain can lead to people drowning in their basement apartments. EDIT: On reflection, the so-called "climate change alarmists" who say you should "not do anything" are probably shills for big corporations, who want to save money on risk mitigation by saying there's no point because it's too late to mitigate the risks of climate change.
      - delecti 1y ago

devnullbrain 1y ago

Older, bigger plants have roots that go deeper and have access to more water. You can see the same effect in gardens, where new plants wilt sooner than established plants (and the care instructions advise frequent watering for the first couple of weeks).

reactordev 1y ago
Both are facts and both are true. Big trees, with their deeper, longer roots - have access to more leaky infrastructure. Or are the cause of it.
kulahan 1y ago
Tree roots stay surprisingly shallow for the most part. Generally, 90% of the roots are in the top 2' of soil.

Spooky23 1y ago

That’s really high. There’s either a big problem in your city, or they are making generous estimates to justify asking for more capital. 10-15% is more typical. In my region, the street trees are usually getting sewer water. Residential service in older houses are usually clay pipes with lead solder that the tree infiltrates. It’s not a problem until the clay pops and roots clog it. It varies a lot by region and jurisdiction. One of the cities near me made the mistake of using riveted pipe from rolled steel to save money 75 years ago, and regularly has catastrophic main breaks as the rivets aren’t as robust as a regular pipe.

mlinhares 1y ago
TIL clay pipes are a thing but it does make a lot of sense there would be.
- close04 1y ago
  These are probably the longest lasting option we have right now, and is far more eco-friendly than the closest alternatives, plastics or concrete.
mschuster91 1y ago
Here in Germany, we estimate sewer infrastructure to last anywhere from 50-100 years, and water mains around 50-ish years. After that, it needs replacement or, that's the modern thing but it's a one-trick pony, re-lining. The prudent thing would be to set aside and invest a tiny bit of money every year to fund a replacement, but unfortunately modern economic theory ("run lean") and manufactured income crises (aka, politicians going for lower taxes and utility rates) have led to a lot of infrastructure being utterly dilapidated and no savings left, and now we need to invest untold billions of euros raised from debt to keep it running. Unfortunately, a lot of the deciders are already dead, and for those that still live, it's fallen out of favor to hold them accountable.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Smart is to have a crew that replaces a little every year. That way they build expertise in how to do it and there isn't a large expense all at once. You can likely get a discount with private plumbers because you want it done sometime and so they schedlue around other customers who want it now.
  - estimator7292 1y ago
    That doesn't track because the real cost to replacing underground infrastructure is not the digging, materials, or labor. We avoid such maintenance as long as possible because shutting down a road is usually very expensive in terms of second-order effects. Digging up a pipe and replacing it is actually pretty cheap and easy. Disrupting a main thoroughfare is incredibly expensive in terms of lost productivity, transport, shipping.

kurthr 1y ago

Austin is close to 50% leakage. Now up to 110gal/day per connection in 2024. https://www.kxan.com/investigations/city-of-austin-pipes-leaked-9-3-billion-gallons-in-2024/ https://www.kxan.com/investigations/city-of-austin-pipes-lea...

lrivers 1y ago
I did some back of the envelope calculations and it looked to me that the leakage would fill Lake Austin from empty to the brim. That’s a lot of water
- prasadjoglekar 1y ago
  This is one example of why I've stopped listening to climate change alarmists. Instead of doing the grunt work of local utility maintenance, it's so much easier to blame "climate change". The climate may be changing, but it's a convenient excuses to not do anything. Another example - in NYC a few years back, several people died when floodwaters entered their basement homes. Mayor De Blasio: Climate change. Local resident: you guys didn't clean out the drains, it's all clogged.
  - teachrdan 1y ago
    > This is one example of why I've stopped listening to climate change alarmists. I'm not sure if I understand your logic. People who advocate to stop climate change (alarmists?) literally never use is as a convenient excuse "not to do anything." If you could provide an example I'd be happy to take that statement back. Instead, the point is that, due to climate change, we're having more and more instances where something as trivial as a clogged drain can lead to people drowning in their basement apartments. EDIT: On reflection, the so-called "climate change alarmists" who say you should "not do anything" are probably shills for big corporations, who want to save money on risk mitigation by saying there's no point because it's too late to mitigate the risks of climate change.
    - delecti 1y ago