18 ms·

A German ISP changed their DNS to block my website

• zoobab 1y ago
  More censorship is a good inventive to build really uncensorable protocols that ISPs can't mess with.
  • oblio 1y ago
    It's great to have alternatives but in practice those don't really get adoption (until a catastrophe has already happened) and during regular times their usage tends to put a target on your back.
  • mzajc 1y ago
    These protocols or revisions already exist - DNSSEC at the site level and DoT/DoH at the user level prevent this kind of malicious tampering with responses by the ISP. The issue is that they're not commonly used, and even if that changes, the ISPs can roll out harder-to-bypass censorship methods like SNI inspection or IP blocks.
    • ACCount37 1y ago
      And webmasters can, in turn, ramp up the adoption of QUIC, ECH, IPv6, or bury their frontend in some CDN that you can't feasibly "IP ban" without massive collateral damage. You can't win the war against corporate censorship and malicious anti-freedom politicians through purely technical means. But you can sure make it much harder for them.
      • Buttons840 1y ago
        Imagine if the radios we all carry with us everywhere could be programmed to communicate with each other. (I'm not sure why I replied here. I guess I'm saying that establishing some kind of mesh network protocol between all cellphones would be a great addition to those other protocols you mentioned.)
        • ACCount37 1y ago
          Cellular modems are typically locked down completely to shit. But I know of a few LTE chips that can be obtained with no pre-burned vendor boot keys, and also have the vendor modem sources and toolchains leaked.
      • eskuero 1y ago
        > you can't feasibly "IP ban" without massive collateral damage. Oh but they can, we are suffering this in Spain every weekend the football league plays. Tons of Cloudflare IPs sent to a blackhole regardless of how many other non relevant websites are behind.
        • iknowstuff 1y ago
          They block them during games only? Lmao thats some insane lobbying
          • otherme123 1y ago
            They do, and they deny they are doing it. The thing works like this: Telefonica owns Movistar, who has the rights to soccer matches. A few webpages offer pirated streams to those matches, behind Cloudflare. Telefonica call the judges and hand them the Cloudflare IP (shared by thousands of sites), who are obviously ignorant about how internet works, through a special "urgent" protocol. As soon as Telefonica has the judge OK, they stop serving Cloudflare, affecting thousands. Their support forums start to boil, but they deny any issue. As soon as the match ends, Cloudflare is back again. This only affects Telefonica and O2 clients. Some business are really angry because they claim their peak hour of the week is during the matches (e.g. wife buying online while husband watch the match)
            • arielcostas 1y ago
              Wait, does the judge accept each request? I thought at this point LaLiga was giving the ISPs the ranges directly. Plus it's not only Telefonica/O2, this season (started 2 weeks ago) it's also Vodafone, Digi and MasOrange. And they don't deny doing it, they claim they block Cloudflare because they host piracy, child pornography (how would they know, did they search for it specifically?) and other illegal stuff and their response is basically "complain to Cloudflare" or "those blocks affect only 4 nerds [using Github, Cloudflare tunnels, Docker Hub...] so we aren't going to change anything".
    • ratorx 1y ago
      These don’t prevent censorship necessarily, they will give you a way to detect it at best. DNSSEC gives you the ability to verify the DNS response. It doesn’t protect against a straight up packet sniffer or ISP tampering, it just allows you to detect that it has happened. DoT/DoH are better, they will guarantee you receive the response the resolver wanted you to. And this will prevent ISP-level blocks. But the government can just pressure public resolvers to enact the changes at the public resolver level (as they are now doing in certain European countries). You can use your own recursive, and this will actually circumvent most censorship (but not hijacking). Hijacking is actually quite rare. ISPs are usually implementing the blocks at their resolver (or the government is mandating that public resolvers do). To actually block things more predictably, SNI is already very prevalent and generally a better ROI (because you need to have a packet sniffer to do either).
      • jeroenhd 1y ago
        DNSSEC itself won't help you alone, but the combination of DNSSEC + ODoH/DoT will. Without DNSSEC, your (O)DoH/DoT server can mess with the DNS results as much as your ISP could. Of course you will need to configure your DNS server/client to do local validation for this, and at most it'll prevent you from falling for scams or other domain foolery.
        • tptacek 1y ago
          In practice, DNSSEC won't do anything for ordinary Internet users, because it runs between recursive resolvers and authority servers, and ordinary users run neither: they use stub resolvers (essentially, "gethostbyname") --- which is why you DHCP-configure a DNS server when you connect to a network. If you were running a recursive resolver, your DNS server would just be "127.0.0.1". The parent comment is also correct that the best DNSSEC can do for you, in the case where you're not relying on an upstream DNS server for resolution (in which case your ISP can invisibly defeat DNSSEC) is to tell you that a name has been censored. And, of course, only a tiny fraction of zones on the Internet are signed, and most of them are irrelevant; the signature rate in the Tranco Top 1000 (which includes most popular names in European areas where DNSSEC is enabled by default and security-theatrically keyed by registrars) is below 10%. DNS-over-HTTPS, on the other hand, does decisively solve this problem --- it allows you to delegate requests to an off-network resolver your ISP doesn't control, and, unlike with DNSSEC, the channel between you and that resolver is end-to-end secure. It also doesn't require anybody to sign their zone, and has never blown up and taken a huge popular site off the Internet for hours at a time, like DNSSEC has. Whatever else DNSSEC is, it isn't really a solution for the censorship problem.
    • jeroenhd 1y ago
      SNI blocking will hopefully be harder now that Let's Encrypt is rolling out IP certificates, so ECH becomes viable for websites that don't share an IP address with known-good websites (like Cloudflare tunnels). IP blocks will be the only solution on the normal web. For everything else, there's I2P and Tor.
  • FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    No, more censorship is a reason to vote better governments not to find workaround while accepting tyranny.
  • tliltocatl 1y ago
    Ultimately it all ends on the physical layer. Those who control the physical layer can always suppress communication if they choose so. The only protocol ISP can't mess with is having an army big enough (and somehow the commanders of that army has to be motivated not to mess with the protocol for their own purposes).
  • uyzstvqs 1y ago
    The protocols already exist. Deploy an I2P router for an effective darknet on the internet, or set up Yggdrasil for a next-generation decentralized & private internet alternative. An even easier start, just set up unfiltered encrypted DNS on your devices. E.g. Njalla DNS or Mullvad DNS. Or get a good VPN such as Mullvad. At the same time, keep voting for privacy. And send letters to your politicians!
• antonvs 1y ago
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  • breppp 1y ago
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    • sam_lowry_ 1y ago
      Dunno what the 1L commentator was thinking, but I guess you confuse armbands and yellow stars ))) Unless you are talking about the white armbands of the failed Belarusian revolution in 2020. But you wouldn't know about those, would you?
      • dmesg 1y ago
        Why? It was both: http://www.geschichteinchronologie.com/judentum-aktenlage/hol/EncJud_Jewish-badge-and-armbands-1939-1945-ENGL.html http://www.geschichteinchronologie.com/judentum-aktenlage/ho... And the prison uniforms had even coloured triangles that revealed additional "offences" stripping people of their humanity.
      • breppp 1y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_of_inmates_in_Nazi_concentration_camps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_of_inmates_in... but in general he was clearly alluding to the actions of the nazis. I was talking about how it is trivializing what actually happened
      • incone123 1y ago
        Nazi insignia was often worn as an armband. I took the post at the start of this thread to liken ISPs to nazis. I do not find it an apt comparison.
    • Hendrikto 1y ago
      I mean… this is straight out of the authoritarian regime playbook. You control what information your citizen are allowed to access, including information about what information they are allowed to access. If you can accomplish that, you have succeeded and democracy is dead.
• delusional 1y ago
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  • deleted 1y ago
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  • xg15 1y ago
    That's 24 entries over the course of almost 5 years. Seems awfully little - especially if the OP apparently saw CUII blocks "in the wild" frequently enough that they decided to make a website to track them.
  • zelphirkalt 1y ago
    When you say: > As of July of this year (2025) all orders are ordered by a judge, and all final orders are published on the website[1]. What does that mean? Does that mean they bought a judge to say what they want them to say? Or does that mean, that they have to get their decisions through usual courts like anyone else? You see, it makes quite a difference, if they have one specific judge, who will do their bidding and maybe is completely clueless about the Internet, or they face the possibility of failing, because a court has properly looked at each case and might decide that they don't have the right to block a site.
    • kbrkbr 1y ago
      So you can't be bothered to read even the first sentence of the only reference gp uses before commenting with a request for deeper explanation? Let me then quote the first sentence for you: > ORDERS OF THE COURTS The list published on this page contains structurally copyright-infringing websites (SCIWs) for which a court has ordered a DNS block, together with the file number of the court decision.
  • zosima 1y ago
    The vast majority of known blocks are missing on that list. It's in fact worse than no list as it gives the impression of transparency, where there isn't any.
  • xyzzyz 1y ago
• donperignon 1y ago
  Ah telefonica… that’s Spanish, same company that every weekend blocks cloudfare in order to “avoid” football piracy. They don’t believe in laws, well they believe that laws are for the plebs not for them, the elites
  • akk0 1y ago
    I understand it's just rhetorics, but I am amused by the idea of some ISP managers considering themselves "the elites".
    • donperignon 1y ago
      They are. Spanish organizations , the c-suite is always there by nepotism
    • bapak 1y ago
      > the idea of some ISP managers considering themselves "the elites". Can you lock millions of users out of Internet? If that's not elite in 2025, who is?
    • fodmap 1y ago
      You can say "the elites" in Telefonica case, because is heavily under the Spanish socialist party control. Pedro Sanchez forced a public investment (€1134 billion) into that company using the SEPI so he can control Telefonica. Then he changed Telefonica president with a socialist pawn, inserted many socialist "elite" into the company, and as a cherry on top, he embedded Huawei inside Telefonica core systems.
      • anthk 1y ago
        Lol at Tebas and LaLiga, so "socialists"... Listen, kids, the higher you get into politics, the faster the textbooks (Marx, Smith, and antything in between) get tossed out of a window and drugs, prostitutes and hard power it's what matters. Better if you don't know how actual politics work, because it that would be pure Realpolitiks. Imagine an 1984 and a Brave New World merded and psychos on top keeping the illusion because of raw power. You have that today. The closest against to that would be the EFF, Richard Stallman, and hardcore groups and humanists working maybe for pride, but helping the rest of the society as the main social law (Golden Rule). But we are not ready. We have a 'hardware' from Neolitics and a 'software' from the Space Era... no wonder the are wars and hardcore collisions between ideologies...
• ulrischa 1y ago
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  • mtsr 1y ago
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    • Argonaut998 1y ago
      Yes?
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    • 05 1y ago
      Pretty sure the biggest propaganda channel is social media and it's wide open.
      • imcritic 1y ago
        You see, he isn't against propaganda, he is against propaganda he doesn't agree with.
        • mtsr 1y ago
          I’m against propaganda that seeks to actively undermine freedom and democracy in my country and the rest of the EU. Is that so strange?
          • logicchains 1y ago
            There is abundant factual evidence that the US worked to undermine democracy in Ukraine in 2014 when Ukraine elected a candidate favourable to Moscow. It's not propaganda to draw attention to that.
            • hkpack 1y ago
• 2716057 1y ago
  The workarounds on this page mostly suggest to use large public resolvers. Feature request (not sure if the author is on HN): it would be interesting to know which domains are blocked by 9.9.9.9, 1.1.1.1, and especially the new DNS4EU service.
  • p2detar 1y ago
    Thanks so much for this. I never heard about DNS4EU before. https://www.joindns4.eu/about https://www.joindns4.eu/about
    • nicce 1y ago
      Few years ago I would have been happy about such a service in EU level. Now I just fear how they are planning to misuse it.
    • throw28158916 1y ago
      Sadly dns4eu does not support dnscrypt protocol which is deal-breaker in 2025 if you ask me.
      • rfl890 1y ago
        Why isn't DoT sufficient?
        • throw28158916 1y ago
          I am not an expert but I read this website [1] and got impression that dns-over-tls is first iteration of encrypted dns and dnscrpyt protocol is second iteration of encrypted dns fixing its problems. Also dns-over-tls is not supported by package dnscrypt-proxy2 on openwrt and I have personal bias for not configuring dns-over-https on routers (in my opinion https is too complex protocol and have risk of getting hacked). Maybe I am alone with my opinions - I do not know. I wanted to use dns4eu and got really disappointed with not supporting dnscrypt. That's all. [1] https://dnscrypt.info/faq https://dnscrypt.info/faq
• littlecranky67 1y ago
  Just checked the list of blocked domains, and my very first try if I can open it, I got also a censorship website from the spanish government (I'm in spain, provider is DIGI) for fitgirl-repacks.site - other (mostly german) piracy sites from the list open fine.
  • littlecranky67 1y ago
    just set my DNS to 1.1.1.1 and am no longer bothered with that censorship.
    • cluckindan 1y ago
      But now you are telling CloudFlare about every domain you visit.
      • amai 1y ago
        Simply use https://quad9.net/ https://quad9.net/ 9.9.9.9 instead.
      • littlecranky67 1y ago
        You are right. Found out there is also DNS4EU with a bit more privacy-friendly orientation. How much they log, well, unless they get audited, I won't know.
  • diggan 1y ago
    Spain here too, Vodafone, and fitgirl-repacks.site also displays "ESTÁ USTED INTENTANDO ACCEDER A UN SITIO WEB ILEGAL" if I accept the (obviously) mismatched certificate they're using. Surprisingly, thepiratebay.org is available for me though without issues. My previous ISPs here (Movistar, Orange, Jazztel) were all blocking thepiratebay.org Seems to be pretty hit/miss what exact domains various ISPs block here. I would have imagined the police/courts serve like a centralized .txt file (simplified) the ISPs just fetch once a day or whatever, but seems to be way less organized than that, for better or worse.
• elashri 1y ago
  These stories and the stories about going after people who are torrenting in much more aggressive manner make my puzzle by Proton decision to relocate to Germany from Switzerland over some proposed law. I understand that it would make it harder to operate with protecting privacy but I would wonder why relocating to Germany, what would the Swiss government do that would be worse than the current situation in Germany? I did not go though the details of the proposed Swiss law to be honest so it might be obvious why they are doing that but still why Germany instead of some other place (like Mullvad being in Sweden) ?
  • bradley13 1y ago
    I am Swiss, but haven't looked into this in detail. My understanding is that the new law basically would require logging user data, with a six-month retention. While this isn't great, the EU is continually pressing for backdoors in encryption. That's far worse. Hence, I think Proton's move is really about reducing costs, with the potential Swiss law as an excuse.
    • palata 1y ago
      > Hence, I think Proton's move is really about reducing costs, with the potential Swiss law as an excuse. And it sounds like blackmail: "if you don't do what we ask, we leave the country". Seems like more and more companies are doing that. Interesting to use blackmail while defending freedom, if you ask me.
• deleted 1y ago
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• mrtksn 1y ago
  Traditionally in the west, censorship was through copyright rights. It wasn’t considered censorship if you do it for money and business. Fast forward to today, Americans are pushing you for self censorship through force and denial(if you don’t speak in line with the admin, you will have hard time in your US public sector job or if you want to travel to US) and Europeans find all kind of other ways. Tough new world order. I used to be advocating for resolution through legal/political means, but now I'm inclined to believe that the solution must be technological because everybody wants security and control. Nobody wants loose ends. Everyone is terrified of some group of people will do something to them, freedom is out of fashion and those claiming otherwise want freedom for themselves only. The guy who says want to make humans interplanetary species is posing with people detained for traveling on the planet without permission. Just forget about it. So this website itself is about censorship, therefore people interested in this shouldn’t be using websites. New tools are needed, the mainstream will be controlled the way the local hegemony sees it fit.
  • FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    What does the political situation in America have to do with the topic of German Internet censorship? The current US administration even called out the EU countries for excessive censorship so they have nothing to do with this. Why can't people stay on topic without bringing Trump in the discussion every 5 minutes?
  • squigz 1y ago
    > freedom is out of fashion and those claiming otherwise want freedom for themselves only. What a fun way to completely invalidate anyone who doesn't agree with you that "freedom is out of fashion"!
    • dingdingdang 1y ago
      Yes, pre-empt the opposition Rumsfeld style and you ain't gotta worry about anyone taking that position any time soon #chat-with-ai
  • Thorrez 1y ago
• breppp 1y ago
  Europe and Germany in particular took from the 30s-40s the lesson where freedom of expression is a risk in democracies because a demagogue can easily sway opinions. For that reason they are in a better position to protect themselves against the 21st century threat to democracy of foreign influences networks
  • Argonaut998 1y ago
    No thanks. I’d rather form my own opinions. >the “demagogue” who allows free expression is more of a tyrant than a state who blocks wrongthink Okay
    • breppp 1y ago
      Yet even if you were never manipulated by false information or narratives in your life, if you live in the US you live in a country where pizzagate happened, the capital riots, the george floyd protests which also became very violent at times and other events where the russian IRA had a hand
  • herbertgreen 1y ago
    The progress of censorship in every single Western country is an admission that "democracy" is a fallacy born from an exceptional small period of time of civil peace, economic growth and wealth. Countries can only follow a stable political path - good or bad, this is not the point - if they have an authoritarian regime. Communism did not work because it was not communist enough, now democracy is not working because it's not democratic enough. Democracy is the golden calf of westerners. I truly believe that voting rights are hurting more a society than drugs and alcohol.
    • simonask 1y ago
      A crucial component of democracy is free and accurate media. Every single functioning democracy in the world has institutions that can apply some amount of sanctions against newspapers and other media that do no live up to the expectation of accuracy. They are struggling to figure out how to do this in the Information Age, but that doesn’t mean it’s not reasonable or important. Blocking propaganda posing as “news” is a stopgap measure, but we can’t do nothing if we want democracy to work.
• ballenf 1y ago
  When domains are seized, does the new "owner" pay the registration renewals? If so, what's to stop someone from doing this: - create a vanity TLD with high renewal fees - register a bunch of sites that are mirrors of already seized domains - mention them in enough places they get noticed - ??? - profit
  • asdfaoeu 1y ago
    I don't think governments seizing domains are paying anything.
  • ascorbic 1y ago
    Step 1 there is a bit of a "draw the rest of the owl"
  • GuB-42 1y ago
    Seizing a domain probably costs way more in procedures than any renewal fees. Also, blocking websites typically doesn't involve ICANN, the infringing website still owns the domain. They just order ISPs in the country to lie on some DNS queries, which is the reason why such blocks are so easy to work around.
  • tiagod 1y ago
    These domains aren't being seized, they are being blocked. In this case, as per TFA, they're just overriding the domain nameserver at the ISP default DNS server. Even if they were actually seized, do you think if the police seize a rental car they'll be paying the rental fee until they give it back?
• layer8 1y ago
  Note that the CUII blocking process is now based on court orders instead of arbitrary corporate decisions: https://lina.sh/blog/cuii-gives-up https://lina.sh/blog/cuii-gives-up
  • ycombinatrix 1y ago
    Not true. The article you linked states that the current nefarious block list still exists, it just isn't growing any more.
  • JBiserkov 1y ago
    > Sadly, there's a small catch: the old blocks stay.
  • Lerc 1y ago
    How can they tell the difference between the CUII giving up and the CUII just saying that they have given up once they successfully found a way to conceal the blocks from the people checking?
    • yorwba 1y ago
      There's no need to tell the difference between those, because the CUII has neither given up nor have they said that they have given up. They'll continue to block the kinds of websites they've been blocking and add new ones to the list, and they'll do so under court order, because the kinds of websites they've been blocking are the ones they're legally required to block. They've been accused of overblocking, but only in the weak sense of uselessly blocking domains that had already been taken down by other means. That will continue to happen with the courts in the loop, because there might be a takedown between the submission of evidence and the court order coming into effect.
  • ghurtado 1y ago
    [flagged]
    • layer8 1y ago
• oriettaxx 1y ago
  As we all experienced, there is always somebody that wants to "protect" us: and so often is the state
• andunie 1y ago
  [dead]
• GardenLetter27 1y ago
  Germany is so backward in stuff like this, skilled engineers should just move to the free world and leave them with their insolvent pensions.
  • _9ptr 1y ago
    That's already happening
  • yogorenapan 1y ago
    Where is the free world? Certainly not the US with Trump around.
  • yladiz 1y ago
    Define free world.
• djoldman 1y ago
  > In Germany, we have the Clearingstelle Urheberrecht im Internet (CUII) - literally 'Copyright Clearinghouse for the Internet', a private organization that decides what websites to block, corporate interests rewriting our free internet. No judges, no transparency, just a bunch of ISPs and major copyright holders deciding what your eyes can see. I'm confused because CUII at: https://cuii.info/en/about-us/ https://cuii.info/en/about-us/ says (translated): > The CUII was founded by Internet access providers and rightholders and coordinates the implementation of court blocking procedures and the enforcement of court blocking orders. CUII is saying that they enforce court orders. I guess that language doesn't preclude them from also blocking other sites.
  • vorgol 1y ago
    A bit like "There used to be a lot of corruption is politics. There still is, but there also used to be."
  • magmaus3 1y ago
    the blog post was written before the page was changed https://web.archive.org/web/20250130115412/https://cuii.info/en/about-us/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250130115412/https://cuii.info... said > The Clearing Body for Copyright on the Internet (CUII) is an independent body in Germany. It was founded by German internet access providers and copyright holders to objectively examine whether the blocking of access to a given structurally copyright-infringing website in Germany is lawful. When copyright holders submit an application, a review board examines whether the relevant requirements are met. If they are, the review board then recommends a DNS-block of the structurally copyright-infringing website in question. Every recommendation of the review committee must be unanimous and only apply to clear cases of copyright infringement. The recommendation is then forwarded to the German Federal Network Agency for Electricity, Gas, Telecommunications, Post and Railways (Bundesnetzagentur - BNetzA). If the examination by the BNetzA does not reveal any concerns about the DNS-block according to the provisions of the EU Net Neutrality Regulation (Regulation (EU) 2015/2120), the CUII then informs the internet access providers and the applicants accordingly. In such cases, the internet access providers participating in the CUII then block the corresponding domains of the structurally copyright-infringing website in Germany. related post by the same author, which mentions the current version of the website: https://lina.sh/blog/cuii-gives-up https://lina.sh/blog/cuii-gives-up > The CUII now only coordinates blocks between ISPs after a court order. That's it. No more secret votes. No more corporate censorship. The new version of their website says: "The CUII coordinates the conduct of judicial blocking proceedings and the implementation of judicial blocking orders."
• Hizonner 1y ago
  It's really getting to be past time to migrate things off of the DNS.
  • superkuh 1y ago
    Oh, you can be sure any new protocol approved by the IETF today is only going to reflect the needs and use cases of large corporations (see HTTP/3). We gotta work with what we have.
    • Hizonner 1y ago
      Why would you ask the IETF?
  • chrisandchris 1y ago
    Or on to DNS? Ideally, we have something like fast.com (a speedtest running on Netflix servers - if a provide speeds you up during a speedtest, he also speeds up all Netflix).
• mystraline 1y ago
  So basically, we need a new way of contact DoH multiple DNS's for a probabilistic response for a site. Ideally, you could also verify geographically different ASNs, including opposing countries to get around legal idiocy. Even better, do this resolution over Tor. Doing that would bypass any state level stupidity, inflicted by an oligopoly, state actors, or similar.
• IFC_LLC 1y ago
  What options are there? Do we have a reliable distributed DNS? I'm genuinely asking, because I've just realized that for the past 7 years I've been happily using my provider's DNS server and never thought of it. But now, I'm seriously considering something better than that.
• flerchin 1y ago
  So this entire censorship scheme is bypassed by using 8.8.8.8 or the like?
  • Henchman21 1y ago
    What about simply running ‘unbound’ yourself?
    • rixed 1y ago
      What do you mean? Where would unbound forward requests to?
      • collinmanderson 1y ago
        It would ask a root nameserver for an ip address for the .com nameserver, and then ask the .com nameserver for the ip address of the example.com nameserver, then ask the example.com nameserver for further records (and may continue to recurse). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_name_server https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_name_server
      • Henchman21 1y ago
        Unbound is a recursive, caching, validating name server. Personally, I run it on a container right on my Mikrotik router. I service DNS myself, and honestly it feels better. If you’re unaware of what this software can do, I do suggest looking into it a bit.
• nashashmi 1y ago
  I feel like someone junior tried to hide their oopsies and did this in an unprofessional manner like all juniors are bound to do at some point (like youtube killing IE6).
  • jedimastert 1y ago
    Ethics aside, how is what the engineer did "unprofessional"?
• Ms-J 1y ago
  In Germany the citizens must change their DNS to block the German government control of their lives. Too many bad laws to keep giving them your consent to be governed.
  • aleph_minus_one 1y ago
    > In Germany the citizens must change their DNS to block the German government control of their lives. It's not the government directly, but what is called in German "Flucht ins Privatrecht" [escape into private law], meaning that the government "outsources" such activities to private organizations that are only very indirectly charged by the government (implying that you cannot use public law to sue the government, but you have to sue the respective organization indirectly. Also, since the relationship between the government and the respective organization is very indirect, the politicians can claim that they are not responsible for the organization's wrongdoings - something that is often not easy to disproof).
  • layer8 1y ago
    It’s explicitly not the government, it’s an independent private association of ISPs and copyright holders.
    • Ms-J 1y ago
      The blocks wouldn't exist without the government. From https://cuii.info/en/about-us/ https://cuii.info/en/about-us/ The CUII was founded by Internet access providers and rightholders and coordinates the implementation of court blocking procedures and the enforcement of court blocking orders.
      • layer8 1y ago
        The article was about how they are deciding to block websites on their own authority, without court orders.
        • Ms-J 1y ago
• hk1337 1y ago
  Initially, this will be used exactly as intended and therefore seen as good. After about ~10 years it will include other "objectionable" material and a good case will be made for it so most people will not necessarily realize it.
• chris_wot 1y ago
  We really need an alternative to DNS.
  • chris_wot 1y ago
    Oh, please, downvote away. But there is GNU Name System and Freenet, but are they any good?
• hoppp 1y ago
  In germany its not possible to sue them for the information? Or it would cost too much? It should be publicly available what the public can't visit.
• 61j3t 1y ago
  What about this: “Your internet provider can’t block or throttle websites. The open web stays open.” Open Internet (Net Neutrality) Regulation (EU) 2015/2120 Official text on EUR-Lex
  • dark-star 1y ago
    well, there will always be conflicting laws, and it is exactly the job of the courts to figure out which law ranks higher.
• viktorcode 1y ago
  I cannot stress that enough: do not use your ISP provided DNS.
• TZubiri 1y ago
  Let's ignore whether there are courts involved in the original blocklists or not, compartimentalizing the discussion. Once a blocklist has been established, I think it's sensible to ban a website that publishes the blocklist: DNS are precisely a mechanism to find websites based on names, and a list of blocked websites would serve essentially as a DNS, so it's clearly circumventing the original purpose of the blocklist, asking for a list of the blocked websites is an oxymoron, publishing a website that displays that is an oxymoron, and the block of such a website is sensible.
• 2Gkashmiri 1y ago
  i wonder if the backend is open source because i want to replicate the process in a different legal jurisdiction