4 ms·

Have you used the cheap Dells and HP laptops that most people buy (not high end IBM machines)? They tend to be plastic junk. Yes thinkpads are good, but most

Have you used the cheap Dells and HP laptops that most people buy (not high end IBM machines)? They tend to be plastic junk. Yes thinkpads are good, but most laptops are trash disposable hardware

rwyinuse 1y ago
They are plastic junk, but even they are likely to remain technically functional for more than 5 years. It's mainly things like battery life, screen & keyboard quality that make those laptops annoying.
- kiliancs 1y ago
  In my experience and my family's you are lucky if they last 3 years. If they last 5 years there's usually a subpar experience, e.g. they overheat significantly at 2 years. OTOH, we have a few macbooks > 10 years still working.
  - LtWorf 1y ago
    And macbooks aren't overheating? I've owned old macbooks… I got scalded by the metal screws on the bottom in the summer because apple thought looking sleek was more important than proper cooling.
    - piskov 1y ago
      No, it was intel piece of shit that promised new nodes for years and never delivered. Macs were designed up to the thermal specs that should have been but never came. Hence the m1: enough is enough
    - JustExAWS 1y ago
      ARM MacBooks aren’t overheating.
    - kiliancs 1y ago
      The other laptops overheat soon after purchasing, often with just the bare OS running. There is a 3 yo laptop that my parents still use, but it has to always be plugged in, and the fans will spin loudly even in suspension. My >10 yo macbooks also have bad batteries. One of them won't last one minute, and will also overheat with minor workloads. They were not immune to overheating when new, but unreasonable overhearing (for the time) definitely didn't become an issue at within 3 years of purchase. And that's with Intel macbooks. My M1 from Dec 2020 works like new (I'm sure the battery life has shortened, but not in a way that I notice). It overheated a couple times running LLMs—that's it. That's how I know the fans work.
      - LtWorf 1y ago
        Put KDE and see the overheating disappear.
  - goyagoji 1y ago
    There's the need to dust fans and then there's the possibility that OS computing requirements have risen which isn't often a Linux thing on old hardware.. OsX had exactly the same problem and had to make a minimizing release IIRC. Computing kind of stagnated since 2010 and plenty of hardware since then still works fine today and is usable enough for many tasks. Apple was nice for needing not all that many different drivers but its statnge integrations like drive fans to bios are obnoxious.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  > even they are likely to remain technically functional for more than 5 years Every plastic laptop I've bought has busted within two years, whether it's mechanical stress or poor heat design. They feel less like reliable tools and more like toys. Looking specifically at you, thinkpads. Meanwhile, the MacBook Pro I bought for myself for college 17 years ago still boots. The battery is dead, but that's an incredibly long life for any hardware of that complexity.
  - LtWorf 1y ago
    Booting once a year isn't "life" for a computer.
bluecalm 1y ago
I am on my 3rd Thinkpad already and while I still like them they are not close to Apple quality. On my current one keyboard touches the screen when it's closed so the screen becomes dirty quickly. After Windows 11 upgrade it auto-dims on battery after like 30 seconds and I can't figure a way to turn it off. Hibernation never worked properly (apparently AMD/Windows issue). You don't need to deal with any of that on a Macbook. I would switch instantly if I didn't need to run Windows.
- LtWorf 1y ago
  > Hibernation never worked properly You can blame microsoft for that unfortunately. They made the vendors to change how it all works to workaround windows issues and it didn't even work.
  - coliveira 1y ago
    It is amazing that after decades Microsoft still cannot nail such an important usability issue... There's no way I can use Windows laptops full time.
    - LtWorf 1y ago
      Problem is they screwed it up for linux users as well, due to hw changes.
extraisland 1y ago
The consumer ones yes. The business are very reliable, and easy to repair. I always buy second hand / refurb of repairable models. I've been burned by Apple before. Not touching their stuff again.

Have you used the cheap Dells and HP laptops that most people buy (not high end IBM machines)? They tend to be plastic junk. Yes thinkpads are good, but most laptops are trash disposable hardware

rwyinuse 1y ago

They are plastic junk, but even they are likely to remain technically functional for more than 5 years. It's mainly things like battery life, screen & keyboard quality that make those laptops annoying.

kiliancs 1y ago
In my experience and my family's you are lucky if they last 3 years. If they last 5 years there's usually a subpar experience, e.g. they overheat significantly at 2 years. OTOH, we have a few macbooks > 10 years still working.
- LtWorf 1y ago
  And macbooks aren't overheating? I've owned old macbooks… I got scalded by the metal screws on the bottom in the summer because apple thought looking sleek was more important than proper cooling.
  - piskov 1y ago
    No, it was intel piece of shit that promised new nodes for years and never delivered. Macs were designed up to the thermal specs that should have been but never came. Hence the m1: enough is enough
  - JustExAWS 1y ago
    ARM MacBooks aren’t overheating.
  - kiliancs 1y ago
    The other laptops overheat soon after purchasing, often with just the bare OS running. There is a 3 yo laptop that my parents still use, but it has to always be plugged in, and the fans will spin loudly even in suspension. My >10 yo macbooks also have bad batteries. One of them won't last one minute, and will also overheat with minor workloads. They were not immune to overheating when new, but unreasonable overhearing (for the time) definitely didn't become an issue at within 3 years of purchase. And that's with Intel macbooks. My M1 from Dec 2020 works like new (I'm sure the battery life has shortened, but not in a way that I notice). It overheated a couple times running LLMs—that's it. That's how I know the fans work.
    - LtWorf 1y ago
      Put KDE and see the overheating disappear.
- goyagoji 1y ago
  There's the need to dust fans and then there's the possibility that OS computing requirements have risen which isn't often a Linux thing on old hardware.. OsX had exactly the same problem and had to make a minimizing release IIRC. Computing kind of stagnated since 2010 and plenty of hardware since then still works fine today and is usable enough for many tasks. Apple was nice for needing not all that many different drivers but its statnge integrations like drive fans to bios are obnoxious.
MangoToupe 1y ago
> even they are likely to remain technically functional for more than 5 years Every plastic laptop I've bought has busted within two years, whether it's mechanical stress or poor heat design. They feel less like reliable tools and more like toys. Looking specifically at you, thinkpads. Meanwhile, the MacBook Pro I bought for myself for college 17 years ago still boots. The battery is dead, but that's an incredibly long life for any hardware of that complexity.
- LtWorf 1y ago
  Booting once a year isn't "life" for a computer.

bluecalm 1y ago

I am on my 3rd Thinkpad already and while I still like them they are not close to Apple quality. On my current one keyboard touches the screen when it's closed so the screen becomes dirty quickly. After Windows 11 upgrade it auto-dims on battery after like 30 seconds and I can't figure a way to turn it off. Hibernation never worked properly (apparently AMD/Windows issue). You don't need to deal with any of that on a Macbook. I would switch instantly if I didn't need to run Windows.

LtWorf 1y ago
> Hibernation never worked properly You can blame microsoft for that unfortunately. They made the vendors to change how it all works to workaround windows issues and it didn't even work.
- coliveira 1y ago
  It is amazing that after decades Microsoft still cannot nail such an important usability issue... There's no way I can use Windows laptops full time.
  - LtWorf 1y ago
    Problem is they screwed it up for linux users as well, due to hw changes.

extraisland 1y ago

The consumer ones yes. The business are very reliable, and easy to repair. I always buy second hand / refurb of repairable models. I've been burned by Apple before. Not touching their stuff again.