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Popular Japanese smartphone games have introduced external payment systems
- shortrounddev2 1y ago>A Kyodo News survey found that among the top 30 best-selling game titles in 2024, at least 11 of the 16 offered by domestic companies have introduced payments through external websites. ~70% (of the top 16 Japanese Game titles, or, 11 of them) Fuck google and fuck apple, but this isn't exactly a large sample
- eplawless 1y agoI'm sure it is by revenue.
- 1523124 1y agoIf we count by revenue, I am certain it will be the same.
- shortrounddev2 1y agoProbably but thats not what the headline said
- kg 1y agoIf you look at the data from places like https://revenue.ennead.cc/revenue https://revenue.ennead.cc/revenue you can see that there's not an even spread of revenue but instead a cluster of big winners towards the top.
- ronsor 1y agoYes, gacha games are always seeking the most optimal path from the player's wallet to the corporate checking account.
- CBMPET2001 1y agoTrue, but Apple and Google were never any impediment to that beyond just skimming some off the top.
- ivape 1y ago30% is not skimming.
- musicale 1y agoIt's a platform fee.
- willi59549879 1y agolike a tax from corporations.
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- soraminazuki 1y agoWe shouldn't even be calling gacha games as "games." They're "give us money" buttons with flashy animations and loud sound effects. Perhaps begware is a better term?
- ronsor 1y agoThey're still games for as long as we call casino games "games"; of course, they are basically digital casinos.
- soraminazuki 1y agoWith casinos, there's a promise of earning money, real or imagined. You don't get anything out of gacha games besides annoyance and frustration. And that's by design, because it's one of the psychological tricks that they use to extract more money out of addicts. This is unlike actual games, which are supposed to be fun.
- jerlam 1y agoDoes this take into account that many "smartphone games" are playable via multiple platforms, and would need a non-in-app payment process anyway?
- BLKNSLVR 1y agoTitle of the article itself seems to have changed to: 70% of Japan smartphone games bypass in-app payments to avoid IT giants I think it should be: 70% of Japan smartphone games bypass in-app payments to avoid unnecessarily additional costs to customers Or more inflammatorily: 70% of Japan smartphone games bypass in-app payments to avoid unnecessarily parasitic middlemen
- Cloudef 1y agoFor parasitic games that certainly aren't just illegal casinos
- micromacrofoot 1y agoyeah they're fighting over who gets more of our blood
- georgeecollins 1y agoWell good news, the fight has been won by Only Fans, Fan Duel, Robinhood, Coinbase, etc. But keep your pearls handy to clutch over loot boxes.
- micromacrofoot 1y agoPearls should be clutched over all of them, aside from the porn it's all gambling — loot boxes are an egregious example because it onboards children to the habit
- johnecheck 1y agoThe 30% cut hurts every developer, not just the minority building bad games that make the world worse.
- musicale 1y agoSmartphone game stores aren't the only option for game developers. They could go with Nintendo eShop (30% platform fee), or Sony PSN store (30% platform fee), or Xbox store (30% platform fee). Hmm, maybe there's a trend here? More seriously, Android does allow sideloading and alternative game stores. There are also subscription services like Xbox game pass, Amazon Luna, and Apple Arcade, though I don't know their exact payment models. And PC gaming still exists - there are popular game stores like Steam that take a smaller cut. I think it's hard to make money on games on any platform, but Steam does seem to have a vibrant indie game scene.
- galkk 1y agoI just don’t understand - where the 30% take away by store number is coming from and why giants are fighting tooth and nail to keep it. Obviously I don’t know economics and costs behind it, but from very uninformed point of view it feels that even 10% would still give quite a profit to stores, even after processor fees.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y agoIt's an ungodly corrupting amount of money.
- simmerup 1y agoThe fact you're thinking 10% is good enough is why you're not part of the cohort which is driven to be 100+ billionaires, more powerful than states, people
- bluefirebrand 1y agoMaybe we should be identifying those types of people and preventing them from ever controlling anything? I mean, if we ever want society to improve at all
- micromacrofoot 1y agodoesn't sound like freedom to me
- bluefirebrand 1y agoIf you want absolute freedom for people to exploit society for their personal gain, then I want absolute freedom to use a brick to cave in the skulls of anyone who behaves that way The fact is that any decent society has restrictions on absolute freedom for good reasons
- micromacrofoot 1y agoThere's a long gap between "absolute freedom" and "you have personally been deemed too greedy to operate a business" (by whom is the most dangerous factor)
- cute_boi 1y agoI don't know why countries around the world aren't concerned with 30% fees to apple and google playstore.
- owebmaster 1y agoThey are. The US government smacks them with tariffs and lawsuits judged by themselves
- ryankrage77 1y agoApple and Google insist their walled gardens are needed for user safety and security, but they can't even catch popular apps violating their own policies. It casts (even more) doubt on their ability to screen for malware, phishing, etc, which are already rampant.
- echelon 1y agoThe DOJ/FTC need to end app stores on phones. Two companies can't own all of computing. Smartphones are the internet for most people, and two companies have installed comprehensive paywalls and distribution gateways. It's unnatural how large and complete their monopolies are. Call your legislator and demand web installs without scare walls and hidden developer flags. With no phony restrictions on app type, technology choice, JIT/runtimes, or UI adherence. We need complete freedom on mobile.
- ronsor 1y agoI agree, but we shouldn't end app stores entirely. I don't want to go back to the days of Windows in the 2000s where you always had to download random executables from websites to install software.
- Pooge 1y agoThis is 2025 and still the way it works. I've never seen a lambda user install a package manager.
- whyoh 1y ago>had to download random executables from websites I don't remember being forced to use a randomizer for downloading executables... Actually, people are more likely to install random apps from an app store, because the OS promotes that behavior.
- echelon 1y agoWe have scoped accounts, jails, permissions, and a whole host of new protections now. And this is still how people get desktop software.
- autoexec 1y agoIf only those games weren't infested with micro/macro transactions to manipulate players out of their money in the first place. Mobile gaming is a cesspool of ads, gambling, greed, data collection, and bullshit all of which has been slowly spreading like a cancer to gaming on every other platform for decades. I'm not happy about Apple and Google demanding a cut of the action either, screw them too, but making these tactics even more profitable for shitty mobile game devs isn't going to benefit players.
- georgeecollins 1y agoHow dare they charge for that slot machine! More seriously: There have always been mobile games that have a purchase price or ask for a single payment. You could find one right now. The vast majority of popular apps have in game transactions. Game developers just want to get paid for the work they do.
- thejohnconway 1y agoInterestingly, in the Apple App Store, there is no option to filter by "paid". Only free. I want an option to filter by "paid, no IAP". Actually, I don't mind IAp for things like new levels and such. It's just so badly abused by mobile games.
- mister_mort 1y agoEvery so often Apple will themselves feature a selection of popular pay-once-and-get-it-all games in the store as an ad capsule. ... actually, I just checked, and if you scroll down enough in the Games tab on your iPhone's App Store app, they seem to be running it now under "Pay Once & Play". Might be worth a look.
- musicale 1y agoIt's a shame they hide these things below the fold.
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- Razengan 1y agoApple provides an almost-always guaranteed refund process for purchases made through the App Store, usually no questions asked. No way do I want to trust randoms with my payment info. Hell I just purchased a Claude.ai Pro Subscription and there's no way to remove my card info afterwards. No way to contact support (the useless chatbot send button is grayed out). If I recall correctly the major proponents of the push for external payment systems on the App Store were companies like Match.com who own Tinder etc. and indulge in various scummy user-hostile practices (like charging certain demographics higher for the same service). Sure, break the "walled garden" and let the wolves in.
- uni_baconcat 1y agoI wonder how much does the AppStore and in-app transaction infrastructure actually cost? Is 30% a fair charge or a rob?
- AraceliHarker 1y agoExternal payments are a different kind of bubble with various companies entering the market, but they'll eventually be weeded out. Furthermore, external payments are only effective for games with long-standing services that have a lot of so-called 'whales,' like FGO, Monster Strike, and Genshin. I don't see app-external payments as a silver bullet for Japan's declining gacha games. After all, a higher profit margin is meaningless if the user base is shrinking.