4 ms·

I agree 100%. I've had lots of foreign language learning experience. I love studying languages and I think that kids should have as much opportunity to do so as

by grose 14y ago

I agree 100%. I've had lots of foreign language learning experience. I love studying languages and I think that kids should have as much opportunity to do so as possible. I have strong doubts that Chinese will ever become the lingua franca of business. It has language features that make it difficult for us Westerners to learn (mainly, tones that carry semantic meaning)... I think that Chinese people will be more motivated to learn English instead. Also, who's to say China's economy won't crash and burn in the next 50 years? Forcing Mandarin on everyone is putting all your eggs in one basket. Learning a foreign language is a difficult thing, and one good way to keep motivated is to be truly interested in the culture of the country whose language you're studying. I'm all for mandatory foreign language education, but I think people should be able to choose a language they care about. They shouldn't have to take Chinese because it might be a big deal in the future. Learning any foreign language can open doors, not just Chinese. Take it from me, an American living in Japan.

nandemo 14y ago
I don't think linguistic features are very relevant. Historically, languages have become lingua franca primarily due to political and economical factors, and secondarily cultural factors. E.g. people living in the Soviet republics and communist Eastern Europe had to learn Russian, no matter how hard Russian was for them. Nowadays people all over the world learn English; for many of them, English is as hard as Chinese is to a native English speaker. But I agree that it's not a given that China will be the superpower, and even if gets there, it's not clear that Mandarin will immediately become that important.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  I think China's ascendancy is a foregone conclusion, but not the dominance of Mandarin.
  - lifeisstillgood 14y ago
    I honestly do not - I fear for China. Over the past 150 years this past generation is the only one not to suffer some horrific war, genocide or starvation. China has a revolt somewhere almost daily, it has none of the institutions we are pretty sure are necessary to managing power (independent judiciary, enforceable contracts etc) and has worrying signs of becoming a mafia state, with none of the benefits of one guy in charge ala Putin . So basically there are a huge number of ways it can go wrong, very little to hold it together except the fear that if we don't keep on this course it will be a lot worse.
  - dageshi 14y ago
    I think the easy part of China's ascendency has just about finished, a lot of very hard economic, political and demographic problems are about to kick in, I wouldn't presume that their continued meteoric rise is guaranteed.
- sigkill 14y ago
  Although I'm not a native speaker of English I can't help but feel that English will remain the common language for quite some time. Any new technology is first 'released' in English. Be it new devices or even new programming languages. Actually, I personally don't know of any programming language that isn't based in English (i.e. logical sentence structure etc.) and mainly, the documentation for practically anything technical/technological is essentially in English. Sure, you've got user manuals in multiple languages, but for chip specification, pin diagrams or anything really, I am unable to find manuals in a non-English language. I believe, the same thing applies to other Engineering fields too. Sure, you've got formulae that's universal. Say, you're a Mechanical Engineer working on some modeling-simulation software, you'd be hard pressed to find a non-English version. And seeing that most of the world is embracing technology, even in the smallest capacity, I feel English isn't going anywhere.
seanmcdirmid 14y ago
If you want to do business in china, Chinese is sort of required. Considering the rising clout of china, it could become mandatory for work trade very quickly. Japan is much smaller (population) in comparison, and much more an island where you don't see many Japanese outside of Japan these days. Chinese people are learning English, they are already better at it than the Japanese. But again, huge population, many of the powerful guys don't feel like learning or speaking English for face reasons. Totally agree with you on language choice, learned Japanese in the 90s, never went anywhere with it. Mandarin has been much more rewarding. Take it from me, an American living in china.
- grose 14y ago
  Sorry if my post came across as implying that Japanese was "better" to learn, I don't think there is any "best" language to study. Much like you, I studied another language before I found one that worked for me. I studied German, before I committed to Japanese. I had fun studying it, but I was never excited enough to the point where I wanted to move to Germany. Learning a language is a very difficult process (especially Chinese for English speakers) and having the freedom to choose to take a different language is what allowed me to find one that I was truly passionate about. I believe that Chinese will continue to remain important, but forcing kids into it might dissuade them from finding a foreign language they truly enjoy. That's all I wanted to say.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Chinese is way easier than Japanese, none of that crazy grammar or honorifics going on, you just have to learn a few tonal sounds. I made my greatest leap in all but 6 moths studying in Beijing in 2002. But it's much better to learn a language in context (where they speak it) vs at high school.
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      That might've been your personal experience. But the Defense Language Institute, which has trained thousands of people over the decades, gives both Chinese and Japanese (along with Arabic and Korean) a level "4" rating - the highest one, requiring (IIRC) 2200 hours of practice. A large part of it depends on the individual - if you find grammar easy to pick up, then Japanese will be easier. The opposite will be true if you find pronunciation easier.

by grose 14y ago

nandemo 14y ago

I don't think linguistic features are very relevant. Historically, languages have become lingua franca primarily due to political and economical factors, and secondarily cultural factors. E.g. people living in the Soviet republics and communist Eastern Europe had to learn Russian, no matter how hard Russian was for them. Nowadays people all over the world learn English; for many of them, English is as hard as Chinese is to a native English speaker. But I agree that it's not a given that China will be the superpower, and even if gets there, it's not clear that Mandarin will immediately become that important.

w1ntermute 14y ago
I think China's ascendancy is a foregone conclusion, but not the dominance of Mandarin.
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  I honestly do not - I fear for China. Over the past 150 years this past generation is the only one not to suffer some horrific war, genocide or starvation. China has a revolt somewhere almost daily, it has none of the institutions we are pretty sure are necessary to managing power (independent judiciary, enforceable contracts etc) and has worrying signs of becoming a mafia state, with none of the benefits of one guy in charge ala Putin . So basically there are a huge number of ways it can go wrong, very little to hold it together except the fear that if we don't keep on this course it will be a lot worse.
- dageshi 14y ago
  I think the easy part of China's ascendency has just about finished, a lot of very hard economic, political and demographic problems are about to kick in, I wouldn't presume that their continued meteoric rise is guaranteed.
sigkill 14y ago
Although I'm not a native speaker of English I can't help but feel that English will remain the common language for quite some time. Any new technology is first 'released' in English. Be it new devices or even new programming languages. Actually, I personally don't know of any programming language that isn't based in English (i.e. logical sentence structure etc.) and mainly, the documentation for practically anything technical/technological is essentially in English. Sure, you've got user manuals in multiple languages, but for chip specification, pin diagrams or anything really, I am unable to find manuals in a non-English language. I believe, the same thing applies to other Engineering fields too. Sure, you've got formulae that's universal. Say, you're a Mechanical Engineer working on some modeling-simulation software, you'd be hard pressed to find a non-English version. And seeing that most of the world is embracing technology, even in the smallest capacity, I feel English isn't going anywhere.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago

If you want to do business in china, Chinese is sort of required. Considering the rising clout of china, it could become mandatory for work trade very quickly. Japan is much smaller (population) in comparison, and much more an island where you don't see many Japanese outside of Japan these days. Chinese people are learning English, they are already better at it than the Japanese. But again, huge population, many of the powerful guys don't feel like learning or speaking English for face reasons. Totally agree with you on language choice, learned Japanese in the 90s, never went anywhere with it. Mandarin has been much more rewarding. Take it from me, an American living in china.

grose 14y ago
Sorry if my post came across as implying that Japanese was "better" to learn, I don't think there is any "best" language to study. Much like you, I studied another language before I found one that worked for me. I studied German, before I committed to Japanese. I had fun studying it, but I was never excited enough to the point where I wanted to move to Germany. Learning a language is a very difficult process (especially Chinese for English speakers) and having the freedom to choose to take a different language is what allowed me to find one that I was truly passionate about. I believe that Chinese will continue to remain important, but forcing kids into it might dissuade them from finding a foreign language they truly enjoy. That's all I wanted to say.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Chinese is way easier than Japanese, none of that crazy grammar or honorifics going on, you just have to learn a few tonal sounds. I made my greatest leap in all but 6 moths studying in Beijing in 2002. But it's much better to learn a language in context (where they speak it) vs at high school.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    That might've been your personal experience. But the Defense Language Institute, which has trained thousands of people over the decades, gives both Chinese and Japanese (along with Arabic and Korean) a level "4" rating - the highest one, requiring (IIRC) 2200 hours of practice. A large part of it depends on the individual - if you find grammar easy to pick up, then Japanese will be easier. The opposite will be true if you find pronunciation easier.