6 ms·

Not sure about the logic of this: "They will live in a world where China and India will have 50 percent of the world GDP. They will live in a world where, if th

by squonk 14y ago

Not sure about the logic of this: "They will live in a world where China and India will have 50 percent of the world GDP. They will live in a world where, if they cannot function successfully in the Asian culture, they will pay a heavy price." Today, the US + EU have about 50% of the world's GDP. Do Chinese kids pay a 'heavy price' because they cannot function successfully in the Western culture? It seems more like the heavy price is paid due to lack of economic integrity and opportunity in China. The importance is in getting a solid education. There will be plenty of work to do here in the US and in China. Related topic: The Hong Kong Chinese don't want their kids to learn about about China: http://news.yahoo.com/hk-drops-china-education-plans-mass-protests-143452268.html http://news.yahoo.com/hk-drops-china-education-plans-mass-pr...

fatjokes 14y ago
While I agree that their logic may be a bit suspect, your counterexample is also false. Chinese kids who do not command at least passable English are barred from the best (or even slightly above-average) schools and jobs. So yes, they do pay a heavy price.
ssong 14y ago
For what it's worth, English is a mandatory subject for students in China. It's hard to predict what the political and economic climate will be like a few decades from now, but I'm pretty sure the number of Mandarin speakers will increase and Asia will still be a major influence on global economics. I'm not sure if I agree with this decision given the circumstances of this particular school district, but I won't be surprised if we start to see other schools strongly encouraging Mandarin studies. Let's not jump too quickly to politics. Mandarin is a language, and will be spoken by the Chinese regardless of politics. It is also spoken in many places outside of mainland China.
- droithomme 14y ago
  > English is a mandatory subject for students in China Few of them learn it well enough using their rote methods to be of much use though. It's good to learn english as it is currently the lingua franca of the world. In europe German teens talk to their Swedish friends in English, just as Italians talk to the Croatians in English. It's used universally for communication. I wonder though - are all English classes in China taught by american government representatives whose salaries are paid for by the United States? Do they also introduce American values as part of the classes? I noticed the article said the classes, throughout the future, will be free to the schools because the Chinese Government (which is as we know run by the Communist Party) is paying for them and the teachers are being sent from mainland China. Nothing seems odd about that to you? I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it.
  - terrapinbear 14y ago
    Sending Chinese teachers to America to school children in Mandarin is just as suspect as America sending most of its manufacturing to China.
  - vidarh 14y ago
    > Nothing seems odd about that to you? No. Many governments have or have had programs to spread understanding of their language, including paying for teachers at times, as well as paying for radio stations, TV channels, web sites. Some of these are or have been blocked by various countries at various times because they didn't like the political views espoused, sure, so it's not like one should assume that there are never political motives (and that goes for all "sides" - the US has done this as much as everyone else). But it is also important for commerce, diplomacy etc. to ensure a good supply of people with an understanding of language, and "seeding" interest for later language studies by introducing it earlier is a good solution. > I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it. Do you for a second believe that the curriculum won't be read by someone in these schools prior to use? Someone who is pretty much guaranteed to hold viewpoints sufficiently far from any devout supporter of the Chinese regime to react quickly to blatant misrepresentations? It's not like these teachers will be let free on a class with no follow up. I very much doubt the Chinese regime is interested in risking their promotion of Chinese language and culture by adding controversial political content. Not least because ideology has long been a secondary priority for the Chinese leadership after economic growth. What do they care if American school children agree with their policies? What they do care about is that American school children grow up to be useful when Chinese companies want to do business with American companies and need people who understand both languages and cultures.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Chinese language teachers in china aren't very political (actually most Chinese are not very political), I suspect the Confucius institute teachers are rather typically similar. American English teachers (not paid for by the USA government,as or more numerous) are much more politic in contrast, trust me, we are indoctrinating more then they are. Disclaimer: not all English teachers here in china are American.
- learc83 14y ago
  >It is also spoken in many places outside of mainland China. Mandarin will definitely be a widely spoken language. But having studied some Mandarin in college, an average American doesn't have enough opportunities to interact with Mandarin speakers to make it a useful day to day skill. And it's much harder to learn (for a native English speaker) than Spanish (or French or German). Given equivalent instruction the average student learning Spanish will be significantly further along.
  - darkestkhan 14y ago
    Stop whining. Start learning. Do you think that they (Chinese) don't have similar barrier when learning English? Do I have enough opportunities to interact with Japanese? No. But I'm still learning it. "Not enough opportunities to interact with [language]" is poor's man excuse to not learn it at all.
    - akldfgj 14y ago
      Yes, the average student in China encounters far more English speaking/writing than the average student America encounters Mandarin. Do you speak Hindi? Russian? Why not these too? Are you too busy just learning Japanese?
      - darkestkhan 14y ago
        The average student in the World encounters far more written English than average American student of any other language (in written form). And people outside of countries with English used on day to day basis don't encounter enough English to properly use it in spoken form. I'm not too busy just learning Japanese (as a matter of fact I'm also learning German and Russian and I still have some free time).
    - fusiongyro 14y ago
      I think you mean "poor man's." If you have a passion to learn a language, lack of opportunity is just an excuse. If you're choosing a policy for forcing kids to learn a language against their will, lack of opportunity is a significant factor that should be considered. English is compulsory in Japan too, which makes the average Japanese citizen the best example of compulsion without opportunity equating to a lot of wasted effort for very little return.
whyenot 14y ago
I suspect the real motivation is that teaching Chinese is a lot cheaper than teaching another language. Beijing wants to spread Mandarin abroad, and at just $16,000 per instructor per year, the price is right for Dallemand.
nekojima 14y ago
"Related topic: The Hong Kong Chinese don't want their kids to learn about about China" That's a very wrong interpretation of the current events in HK. The parents and students are opposed to the National Education plan because it inaccurately presents recent mainland Chinese history and Chinese cultural values, is an attempt at brain washing (or 'wash brain' in local English) and is being used as a way of monitoring the political reliability of students & their teachers. This last point is a particular concern, as its an extension of the surveillance network & could be used to hinder job promotion and educational advancement.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Yes. What the hk'ers are against is the "patriotic" education where the kids learn about Mao and how great the CCP (Chinese communist party) is. And I think they have a good point.
jbester 14y ago
Macon is a town with a large blue-collar population that lost most of the major industries in the last 15 years. This is part of a multi-pronged approach to get Foreign-owned companies to locate low-skill jobs in the city.

by squonk 14y ago

fatjokes 14y ago

While I agree that their logic may be a bit suspect, your counterexample is also false. Chinese kids who do not command at least passable English are barred from the best (or even slightly above-average) schools and jobs. So yes, they do pay a heavy price.

ssong 14y ago

For what it's worth, English is a mandatory subject for students in China. It's hard to predict what the political and economic climate will be like a few decades from now, but I'm pretty sure the number of Mandarin speakers will increase and Asia will still be a major influence on global economics. I'm not sure if I agree with this decision given the circumstances of this particular school district, but I won't be surprised if we start to see other schools strongly encouraging Mandarin studies. Let's not jump too quickly to politics. Mandarin is a language, and will be spoken by the Chinese regardless of politics. It is also spoken in many places outside of mainland China.

droithomme 14y ago
> English is a mandatory subject for students in China Few of them learn it well enough using their rote methods to be of much use though. It's good to learn english as it is currently the lingua franca of the world. In europe German teens talk to their Swedish friends in English, just as Italians talk to the Croatians in English. It's used universally for communication. I wonder though - are all English classes in China taught by american government representatives whose salaries are paid for by the United States? Do they also introduce American values as part of the classes? I noticed the article said the classes, throughout the future, will be free to the schools because the Chinese Government (which is as we know run by the Communist Party) is paying for them and the teachers are being sent from mainland China. Nothing seems odd about that to you? I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it.
- terrapinbear 14y ago
  Sending Chinese teachers to America to school children in Mandarin is just as suspect as America sending most of its manufacturing to China.
- vidarh 14y ago
  > Nothing seems odd about that to you? No. Many governments have or have had programs to spread understanding of their language, including paying for teachers at times, as well as paying for radio stations, TV channels, web sites. Some of these are or have been blocked by various countries at various times because they didn't like the political views espoused, sure, so it's not like one should assume that there are never political motives (and that goes for all "sides" - the US has done this as much as everyone else). But it is also important for commerce, diplomacy etc. to ensure a good supply of people with an understanding of language, and "seeding" interest for later language studies by introducing it earlier is a good solution. > I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it. Do you for a second believe that the curriculum won't be read by someone in these schools prior to use? Someone who is pretty much guaranteed to hold viewpoints sufficiently far from any devout supporter of the Chinese regime to react quickly to blatant misrepresentations? It's not like these teachers will be let free on a class with no follow up. I very much doubt the Chinese regime is interested in risking their promotion of Chinese language and culture by adding controversial political content. Not least because ideology has long been a secondary priority for the Chinese leadership after economic growth. What do they care if American school children agree with their policies? What they do care about is that American school children grow up to be useful when Chinese companies want to do business with American companies and need people who understand both languages and cultures.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Chinese language teachers in china aren't very political (actually most Chinese are not very political), I suspect the Confucius institute teachers are rather typically similar. American English teachers (not paid for by the USA government,as or more numerous) are much more politic in contrast, trust me, we are indoctrinating more then they are. Disclaimer: not all English teachers here in china are American.
learc83 14y ago
>It is also spoken in many places outside of mainland China. Mandarin will definitely be a widely spoken language. But having studied some Mandarin in college, an average American doesn't have enough opportunities to interact with Mandarin speakers to make it a useful day to day skill. And it's much harder to learn (for a native English speaker) than Spanish (or French or German). Given equivalent instruction the average student learning Spanish will be significantly further along.
- darkestkhan 14y ago
  Stop whining. Start learning. Do you think that they (Chinese) don't have similar barrier when learning English? Do I have enough opportunities to interact with Japanese? No. But I'm still learning it. "Not enough opportunities to interact with [language]" is poor's man excuse to not learn it at all.
  - akldfgj 14y ago
    Yes, the average student in China encounters far more English speaking/writing than the average student America encounters Mandarin. Do you speak Hindi? Russian? Why not these too? Are you too busy just learning Japanese?
    - darkestkhan 14y ago
      The average student in the World encounters far more written English than average American student of any other language (in written form). And people outside of countries with English used on day to day basis don't encounter enough English to properly use it in spoken form. I'm not too busy just learning Japanese (as a matter of fact I'm also learning German and Russian and I still have some free time).
  - fusiongyro 14y ago
    I think you mean "poor man's." If you have a passion to learn a language, lack of opportunity is just an excuse. If you're choosing a policy for forcing kids to learn a language against their will, lack of opportunity is a significant factor that should be considered. English is compulsory in Japan too, which makes the average Japanese citizen the best example of compulsion without opportunity equating to a lot of wasted effort for very little return.

whyenot 14y ago

I suspect the real motivation is that teaching Chinese is a lot cheaper than teaching another language. Beijing wants to spread Mandarin abroad, and at just $16,000 per instructor per year, the price is right for Dallemand.

nekojima 14y ago

"Related topic: The Hong Kong Chinese don't want their kids to learn about about China" That's a very wrong interpretation of the current events in HK. The parents and students are opposed to the National Education plan because it inaccurately presents recent mainland Chinese history and Chinese cultural values, is an attempt at brain washing (or 'wash brain' in local English) and is being used as a way of monitoring the political reliability of students & their teachers. This last point is a particular concern, as its an extension of the surveillance network & could be used to hinder job promotion and educational advancement.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Yes. What the hk'ers are against is the "patriotic" education where the kids learn about Mao and how great the CCP (Chinese communist party) is. And I think they have a good point.

jbester 14y ago

Macon is a town with a large blue-collar population that lost most of the major industries in the last 15 years. This is part of a multi-pronged approach to get Foreign-owned companies to locate low-skill jobs in the city.