8 ms·

Some Georgia Schools Make Mandarin Mandatory

35 points by vibrunazo 14y ago

squonk 14y ago
Not sure about the logic of this: "They will live in a world where China and India will have 50 percent of the world GDP. They will live in a world where, if they cannot function successfully in the Asian culture, they will pay a heavy price." Today, the US + EU have about 50% of the world's GDP. Do Chinese kids pay a 'heavy price' because they cannot function successfully in the Western culture? It seems more like the heavy price is paid due to lack of economic integrity and opportunity in China. The importance is in getting a solid education. There will be plenty of work to do here in the US and in China. Related topic: The Hong Kong Chinese don't want their kids to learn about about China: http://news.yahoo.com/hk-drops-china-education-plans-mass-protests-143452268.html http://news.yahoo.com/hk-drops-china-education-plans-mass-pr...
- fatjokes 14y ago
  While I agree that their logic may be a bit suspect, your counterexample is also false. Chinese kids who do not command at least passable English are barred from the best (or even slightly above-average) schools and jobs. So yes, they do pay a heavy price.
- ssong 14y ago
  For what it's worth, English is a mandatory subject for students in China. It's hard to predict what the political and economic climate will be like a few decades from now, but I'm pretty sure the number of Mandarin speakers will increase and Asia will still be a major influence on global economics. I'm not sure if I agree with this decision given the circumstances of this particular school district, but I won't be surprised if we start to see other schools strongly encouraging Mandarin studies. Let's not jump too quickly to politics. Mandarin is a language, and will be spoken by the Chinese regardless of politics. It is also spoken in many places outside of mainland China.
  - droithomme 14y ago
    > English is a mandatory subject for students in China Few of them learn it well enough using their rote methods to be of much use though. It's good to learn english as it is currently the lingua franca of the world. In europe German teens talk to their Swedish friends in English, just as Italians talk to the Croatians in English. It's used universally for communication. I wonder though - are all English classes in China taught by american government representatives whose salaries are paid for by the United States? Do they also introduce American values as part of the classes? I noticed the article said the classes, throughout the future, will be free to the schools because the Chinese Government (which is as we know run by the Communist Party) is paying for them and the teachers are being sent from mainland China. Nothing seems odd about that to you? I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it.
    - terrapinbear 14y ago
      Sending Chinese teachers to America to school children in Mandarin is just as suspect as America sending most of its manufacturing to China.
    - vidarh 14y ago
      > Nothing seems odd about that to you? No. Many governments have or have had programs to spread understanding of their language, including paying for teachers at times, as well as paying for radio stations, TV channels, web sites. Some of these are or have been blocked by various countries at various times because they didn't like the political views espoused, sure, so it's not like one should assume that there are never political motives (and that goes for all "sides" - the US has done this as much as everyone else). But it is also important for commerce, diplomacy etc. to ensure a good supply of people with an understanding of language, and "seeding" interest for later language studies by introducing it earlier is a good solution. > I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it. Do you for a second believe that the curriculum won't be read by someone in these schools prior to use? Someone who is pretty much guaranteed to hold viewpoints sufficiently far from any devout supporter of the Chinese regime to react quickly to blatant misrepresentations? It's not like these teachers will be let free on a class with no follow up. I very much doubt the Chinese regime is interested in risking their promotion of Chinese language and culture by adding controversial political content. Not least because ideology has long been a secondary priority for the Chinese leadership after economic growth. What do they care if American school children agree with their policies? What they do care about is that American school children grow up to be useful when Chinese companies want to do business with American companies and need people who understand both languages and cultures.
- whyenot 14y ago
  I suspect the real motivation is that teaching Chinese is a lot cheaper than teaching another language. Beijing wants to spread Mandarin abroad, and at just $16,000 per instructor per year, the price is right for Dallemand.
- nekojima 14y ago
  "Related topic: The Hong Kong Chinese don't want their kids to learn about about China" That's a very wrong interpretation of the current events in HK. The parents and students are opposed to the National Education plan because it inaccurately presents recent mainland Chinese history and Chinese cultural values, is an attempt at brain washing (or 'wash brain' in local English) and is being used as a way of monitoring the political reliability of students & their teachers. This last point is a particular concern, as its an extension of the surveillance network & could be used to hinder job promotion and educational advancement.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Yes. What the hk'ers are against is the "patriotic" education where the kids learn about Mao and how great the CCP (Chinese communist party) is. And I think they have a good point.
- jbester 14y ago
  Macon is a town with a large blue-collar population that lost most of the major industries in the last 15 years. This is part of a multi-pronged approach to get Foreign-owned companies to locate low-skill jobs in the city.
zachwill 14y ago
On a side note, Macon is actually a Code for America city this year (http://codeforamerica.org/2012-partners/macon/ http://codeforamerica.org/2012-partners/macon/) and I'm one of three fellows working with the city. The speech superintendent Dallemand gave earlier this year detailing his plan was great (we spent all of February in Macon) — especially when you consider just how much scrutiny it's been under.
sciurus 14y ago
Wow, my old hometown makes HN. Both of my parents have taught public school in Bibb County, so I've followed this with some interest. You can read the entire "Macon Miracle' plan at http://bibb.k12.ga.us/stplan2.html http://bibb.k12.ga.us/stplan2.html
learc83 14y ago
I took some Mandarin in college, my younger brother is a linguist, and my much younger 8 year old sister has been in a Spanish immersion program since she was 5 (in a Georgia public school). I completely support more language education in public schools. However, this superintendent really seems stuck on this "China as the future of the world" idea. It seems a bit short sighted to base policies solely on extrapolated trends. If this were 1995, he'd be insisting that student's learn Japanese or they'd be suffering in a future economy dominated by Japan. From personal experience, the majority of students just aren't going to get as much use from Mandarin as they would from Spanish. Furthermore, Mandarin is much harder for native English speakers to learn than Spanish--It takes much more instruction and practice to get to an equivalent level of competence.
- grose 14y ago
  I agree 100%. I've had lots of foreign language learning experience. I love studying languages and I think that kids should have as much opportunity to do so as possible. I have strong doubts that Chinese will ever become the lingua franca of business. It has language features that make it difficult for us Westerners to learn (mainly, tones that carry semantic meaning)... I think that Chinese people will be more motivated to learn English instead. Also, who's to say China's economy won't crash and burn in the next 50 years? Forcing Mandarin on everyone is putting all your eggs in one basket. Learning a foreign language is a difficult thing, and one good way to keep motivated is to be truly interested in the culture of the country whose language you're studying. I'm all for mandatory foreign language education, but I think people should be able to choose a language they care about. They shouldn't have to take Chinese because it might be a big deal in the future. Learning any foreign language can open doors, not just Chinese. Take it from me, an American living in Japan.
  - nandemo 14y ago
    I don't think linguistic features are very relevant. Historically, languages have become lingua franca primarily due to political and economical factors, and secondarily cultural factors. E.g. people living in the Soviet republics and communist Eastern Europe had to learn Russian, no matter how hard Russian was for them. Nowadays people all over the world learn English; for many of them, English is as hard as Chinese is to a native English speaker. But I agree that it's not a given that China will be the superpower, and even if gets there, it's not clear that Mandarin will immediately become that important.
tzm 14y ago
I think there's a huge cultural education gap in the US regarding China. Requiring Mandarin at a basic level would help mitigate this while opening opportunities for students. People should get their heads out of the sand..
talloaktrees 14y ago
I started taking Mandarin in college ten years ago. I have lived in Taiwan for six years, and I now speak and read near-native Chinese, an accomplishment I'm somewhat proud of. Now I am teaching myself programming to prepare for a career when I return to the US. Take from my anecdote what you will.
adinb 14y ago
Requiring a tonal language for young children is a great thing–typically adults that speak only non-tonal languages have a much, much harder time learning the tonal structures. I put this in the same category as teaching music to younger children (higher plasticity) Besides, isnt this the first step to the Mandarin-English pidgin language spoken in Firefly? ;)
stretchwithme 14y ago
My experience learning languages in high school left me feeling that its a waste of time to learn a language for an hour a day. Its much better to be immersed in a language for a month than spend three years learning it that way. And it takes less time altogether.
jakeonthemove 14y ago
It doesn't even really matter if China will become a superpower bigger than the US - since most of the production of physical products is there, it makes a lot of sense to teach children the language - it will make it so much easier to work in the future. I also still think that somewhat advanced economy classes in schools would be a great addition...

35 points by vibrunazo 14y ago

Not sure about the logic of this: "They will live in a world where China and India will have 50 percent of the world GDP. They will live in a world where, if they cannot function successfully in the Asian culture, they will pay a heavy price." Today, the US + EU have about 50% of the world's GDP. Do Chinese kids pay a 'heavy price' because they cannot function successfully in the Western culture? It seems more like the heavy price is paid due to lack of economic integrity and opportunity in China. The importance is in getting a solid education. There will be plenty of work to do here in the US and in China. Related topic: The Hong Kong Chinese don't want their kids to learn about about China: http://news.yahoo.com/hk-drops-china-education-plans-mass-protests-143452268.html http://news.yahoo.com/hk-drops-china-education-plans-mass-pr...

fatjokes 14y ago
While I agree that their logic may be a bit suspect, your counterexample is also false. Chinese kids who do not command at least passable English are barred from the best (or even slightly above-average) schools and jobs. So yes, they do pay a heavy price.
ssong 14y ago
For what it's worth, English is a mandatory subject for students in China. It's hard to predict what the political and economic climate will be like a few decades from now, but I'm pretty sure the number of Mandarin speakers will increase and Asia will still be a major influence on global economics. I'm not sure if I agree with this decision given the circumstances of this particular school district, but I won't be surprised if we start to see other schools strongly encouraging Mandarin studies. Let's not jump too quickly to politics. Mandarin is a language, and will be spoken by the Chinese regardless of politics. It is also spoken in many places outside of mainland China.
- droithomme 14y ago
  > English is a mandatory subject for students in China Few of them learn it well enough using their rote methods to be of much use though. It's good to learn english as it is currently the lingua franca of the world. In europe German teens talk to their Swedish friends in English, just as Italians talk to the Croatians in English. It's used universally for communication. I wonder though - are all English classes in China taught by american government representatives whose salaries are paid for by the United States? Do they also introduce American values as part of the classes? I noticed the article said the classes, throughout the future, will be free to the schools because the Chinese Government (which is as we know run by the Communist Party) is paying for them and the teachers are being sent from mainland China. Nothing seems odd about that to you? I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it.
  - terrapinbear 14y ago
    Sending Chinese teachers to America to school children in Mandarin is just as suspect as America sending most of its manufacturing to China.
  - vidarh 14y ago
    > Nothing seems odd about that to you? No. Many governments have or have had programs to spread understanding of their language, including paying for teachers at times, as well as paying for radio stations, TV channels, web sites. Some of these are or have been blocked by various countries at various times because they didn't like the political views espoused, sure, so it's not like one should assume that there are never political motives (and that goes for all "sides" - the US has done this as much as everyone else). But it is also important for commerce, diplomacy etc. to ensure a good supply of people with an understanding of language, and "seeding" interest for later language studies by introducing it earlier is a good solution. > I know, I know. I must be some "conspiracy nut" just to be asking whether the Chinese Communist Party completely financing and sending trained and educated Chinese Communist Party members to the US to teach poor american children to speak Chinese and understand modern Chinese perspectives defined by their government in order to "prepare for 2050" is a strange thing. It's safe to disregard these "crackpot ideas", right? Or is it. Do you for a second believe that the curriculum won't be read by someone in these schools prior to use? Someone who is pretty much guaranteed to hold viewpoints sufficiently far from any devout supporter of the Chinese regime to react quickly to blatant misrepresentations? It's not like these teachers will be let free on a class with no follow up. I very much doubt the Chinese regime is interested in risking their promotion of Chinese language and culture by adding controversial political content. Not least because ideology has long been a secondary priority for the Chinese leadership after economic growth. What do they care if American school children agree with their policies? What they do care about is that American school children grow up to be useful when Chinese companies want to do business with American companies and need people who understand both languages and cultures.
whyenot 14y ago
I suspect the real motivation is that teaching Chinese is a lot cheaper than teaching another language. Beijing wants to spread Mandarin abroad, and at just $16,000 per instructor per year, the price is right for Dallemand.
nekojima 14y ago
"Related topic: The Hong Kong Chinese don't want their kids to learn about about China" That's a very wrong interpretation of the current events in HK. The parents and students are opposed to the National Education plan because it inaccurately presents recent mainland Chinese history and Chinese cultural values, is an attempt at brain washing (or 'wash brain' in local English) and is being used as a way of monitoring the political reliability of students & their teachers. This last point is a particular concern, as its an extension of the surveillance network & could be used to hinder job promotion and educational advancement.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Yes. What the hk'ers are against is the "patriotic" education where the kids learn about Mao and how great the CCP (Chinese communist party) is. And I think they have a good point.
jbester 14y ago
Macon is a town with a large blue-collar population that lost most of the major industries in the last 15 years. This is part of a multi-pronged approach to get Foreign-owned companies to locate low-skill jobs in the city.

zachwill 14y ago

On a side note, Macon is actually a Code for America city this year (http://codeforamerica.org/2012-partners/macon/ http://codeforamerica.org/2012-partners/macon/) and I'm one of three fellows working with the city. The speech superintendent Dallemand gave earlier this year detailing his plan was great (we spent all of February in Macon) — especially when you consider just how much scrutiny it's been under.

sciurus 14y ago

Wow, my old hometown makes HN. Both of my parents have taught public school in Bibb County, so I've followed this with some interest. You can read the entire "Macon Miracle' plan at http://bibb.k12.ga.us/stplan2.html http://bibb.k12.ga.us/stplan2.html

learc83 14y ago

I took some Mandarin in college, my younger brother is a linguist, and my much younger 8 year old sister has been in a Spanish immersion program since she was 5 (in a Georgia public school). I completely support more language education in public schools. However, this superintendent really seems stuck on this "China as the future of the world" idea. It seems a bit short sighted to base policies solely on extrapolated trends. If this were 1995, he'd be insisting that student's learn Japanese or they'd be suffering in a future economy dominated by Japan. From personal experience, the majority of students just aren't going to get as much use from Mandarin as they would from Spanish. Furthermore, Mandarin is much harder for native English speakers to learn than Spanish--It takes much more instruction and practice to get to an equivalent level of competence.

grose 14y ago
I agree 100%. I've had lots of foreign language learning experience. I love studying languages and I think that kids should have as much opportunity to do so as possible. I have strong doubts that Chinese will ever become the lingua franca of business. It has language features that make it difficult for us Westerners to learn (mainly, tones that carry semantic meaning)... I think that Chinese people will be more motivated to learn English instead. Also, who's to say China's economy won't crash and burn in the next 50 years? Forcing Mandarin on everyone is putting all your eggs in one basket. Learning a foreign language is a difficult thing, and one good way to keep motivated is to be truly interested in the culture of the country whose language you're studying. I'm all for mandatory foreign language education, but I think people should be able to choose a language they care about. They shouldn't have to take Chinese because it might be a big deal in the future. Learning any foreign language can open doors, not just Chinese. Take it from me, an American living in Japan.
- nandemo 14y ago
  I don't think linguistic features are very relevant. Historically, languages have become lingua franca primarily due to political and economical factors, and secondarily cultural factors. E.g. people living in the Soviet republics and communist Eastern Europe had to learn Russian, no matter how hard Russian was for them. Nowadays people all over the world learn English; for many of them, English is as hard as Chinese is to a native English speaker. But I agree that it's not a given that China will be the superpower, and even if gets there, it's not clear that Mandarin will immediately become that important.

tzm 14y ago

I think there's a huge cultural education gap in the US regarding China. Requiring Mandarin at a basic level would help mitigate this while opening opportunities for students. People should get their heads out of the sand..

talloaktrees 14y ago

I started taking Mandarin in college ten years ago. I have lived in Taiwan for six years, and I now speak and read near-native Chinese, an accomplishment I'm somewhat proud of. Now I am teaching myself programming to prepare for a career when I return to the US. Take from my anecdote what you will.

adinb 14y ago

Requiring a tonal language for young children is a great thing–typically adults that speak only non-tonal languages have a much, much harder time learning the tonal structures. I put this in the same category as teaching music to younger children (higher plasticity) Besides, isnt this the first step to the Mandarin-English pidgin language spoken in Firefly? ;)

stretchwithme 14y ago

My experience learning languages in high school left me feeling that its a waste of time to learn a language for an hour a day. Its much better to be immersed in a language for a month than spend three years learning it that way. And it takes less time altogether.

jakeonthemove 14y ago

It doesn't even really matter if China will become a superpower bigger than the US - since most of the production of physical products is there, it makes a lot of sense to teach children the language - it will make it so much easier to work in the future. I also still think that somewhat advanced economy classes in schools would be a great addition...