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I don't understand the point of "fake meat" burgers. Like, there are so many good recipes and ingredients out there that don't try to mimic meat and are still g

I don't understand the point of "fake meat" burgers. Like, there are so many good recipes and ingredients out there that don't try to mimic meat and are still good and tasty. Look at Indian food, for instance. They sure found a way to make pulses and other humble ingredients tasty and delicious. Or the many Mediterranean dishes that just happen to be vegan or vegetarian, but are meatless because they simply were good enough like that. I think fake meat wasn't really about "getting people to eat less meat", it was based on the expectation that the average person only wants to eat the same exact thing they ever did without ever widening their culinary horizons. The only problem is, that a person that's open enough to try fake meat is probably open minded enough to try new things in general, including foods that aren't served between two slices of bread. The people that stubbornly refuse to vary their diets often won't try new stuff anyway

drob518 1y ago
I agree. If you want to eat meat, fine. If you don’t want to eat meat, fine. But the whole, “Let’s trick our taste buds and eat fake meat,” thing doesn’t make much sense to me.
- troyvit 1y ago
  Man it works for me. I love fake sausage more than the real thing because it trips all the same taste feels but I'm not eating something as smart as my dog. It's also less greasy and easier to clean up after I'm done cooking it. I guest that it's ultra-processed, and probably not that good for me, but honestly sausage is pretty damned processed too.
- aziaziazi 1y ago
  [dead]
paulryanrogers 1y ago
Fake meat is a fun transitional choice for those of us who appreciate meat's texture and flavor but not its costs to future generations. Indian food is a delight, yet sadly my digestive system cannot handle much of it anymore, for medical reasons. To each their own. No need to throw shade because different people have different tastes.
pfannkuchen 1y ago
Well presumably those other cuisines took a long time to develop the good recipes you mention. It’s not really biologically normal for humans to just up and completely change their culture based on logic. So while Indians have already done the intergenerational work to have good vegan dishes, in the west we don’t have that. Making a drop in replacement that works within the existing food culture does seem like a reasonable hack.
- sirtaj 1y ago
  I'd say that proportion of what you might call "vegan" food in india is quite small. Dairy-based products are everywhere in vegetarian dishes, and many (too many, imho) recipes treat paneer as the default stand-in for meat.
  - pfannkuchen 1y ago
    Yeah that’s right, I should have said vegetarian.
annexrichmond 1y ago
Not everyone likes Indian food. I think most people like familiar flavors. Western people didn't grow up eating veggie-based food so I don't know why this is surprising. People just want to eat familiar things.
vb6sp6 1y ago
[dead]
hollandheese 1y ago
Say you're on the road with a vegetarian and the only place to stop is a fast food burger place. If that fast food place has a fake meat burger on the menu then they'll get a sale from the vegetarian.
- dtagames 1y ago
  Naw. There have been vegetarian sandwich patty options forever, years before fake meat. Like tofu burgers, TVP, bulgur wheat, and others.
  - adultSwim 1y ago
    You can't get TVP at Burger King. The old veggie burgers tasted terrible.
    - jbaber 1y ago
      I used to just get the "veggie whopper" i.e. all of the fixings, but no pattie at all. There were enough bread, mayo, pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, cheese that I got plenty of calories and felt full.
    - nichos 1y ago
      For clarity, burger king is "Impossible" not beyond. A different company.
schoen 1y ago
What I've noticed, especially from visiting Singapore, is that Indian (and other South Asian) religious vegetarianism often involves finding great alternatives to meat, while Chinese religious vegetarian often involves finding imitations of meat. Both of these habits are rather strong culturally and it would probably feel kind of weird to Indian vegetarians to eat mock meat, or to Chinese vegetarians not to eat mock meat. The big (well, it's all relative!) mock meat store in Oakland, California, is in Chinatown and their staff and clientele are mostly Chinese, and their products are mostly from Chinese-speaking regions and companies. They have dozens of highly specific mock meats so that people can avoid the religious violations associated with eating meat, while continuing to have specific dishes that they're familiar with. I personally started out with aesthetic vegetarianism before getting into ethical vegetarianism; that means I disliked meat itself at first, so I usually haven't been excited for mock meat and sometimes have been grossed out by it. But I have a good friend who started out with ethical vegetarianism and has never gotten into aesthetic vegetarianism; he loved meat but came to feel that it was rather harmful and didn't want to be responsible for its production. He has been trying every single kind of mock meat that he can find ever since going vegetarian and has made many of them staple parts of his diet. I doubt that there's a single way to bridge this cultural gap or resolve it decisively in favor of one tradition or the other. I totally agree that cultures that have a native tradition of vegetarianism (Indian, Ethiopian, Eastern Orthodox Christian) have tended to come up with awesome stuff that's not based on meat at all. However, people going vegetarian from a non-vegetarian cultural and culinary background don't necessarily want to change their entire cuisine and palate as a result. For many of them, that means mock meats are an extremely appealing option!
- hearsathought 1y ago
  > I totally agree that cultures that have a native tradition of vegetarianism (Indian, Ethiopian, Eastern Orthodox Christian) None of these cultures have a "native" tradition of vegetarianism. They all started as meat eating cultures. > have tended to come up with awesome stuff that's not based on meat at all. Vegetarians don't need a meat alternative because vegetarians eat eggs, dairy, etc. Beyond Meat was part of the vegan movement.
adultSwim 1y ago
Food is important. Most people don't want to stop eating all the dishes they enjoy and just switch to Indian food. People lie on a spectrum of openness to new things. Developing a high quality direct alternative to a foundational yet highly fraught ingredient of the American diet makes sense to me. Even a bit less beef mitigates the near daily amputations by workers at processing plants or horrors we are adding to with climate annihilation. Personally, Impossible and Beyond materially improved my life by adding to it. I enjoy their products, and still make plenty of Indian food.
skavi 1y ago
I like indian food. I like a good black bean burger. I also like real meat and fake meat. I wouldn’t mind eating less real meat if the fake meat was even closer and offered more pervasively.

drob518 1y ago

I agree. If you want to eat meat, fine. If you don’t want to eat meat, fine. But the whole, “Let’s trick our taste buds and eat fake meat,” thing doesn’t make much sense to me.

troyvit 1y ago
Man it works for me. I love fake sausage more than the real thing because it trips all the same taste feels but I'm not eating something as smart as my dog. It's also less greasy and easier to clean up after I'm done cooking it. I guest that it's ultra-processed, and probably not that good for me, but honestly sausage is pretty damned processed too.
aziaziazi 1y ago
[dead]

paulryanrogers 1y ago

Fake meat is a fun transitional choice for those of us who appreciate meat's texture and flavor but not its costs to future generations. Indian food is a delight, yet sadly my digestive system cannot handle much of it anymore, for medical reasons. To each their own. No need to throw shade because different people have different tastes.

pfannkuchen 1y ago

Well presumably those other cuisines took a long time to develop the good recipes you mention. It’s not really biologically normal for humans to just up and completely change their culture based on logic. So while Indians have already done the intergenerational work to have good vegan dishes, in the west we don’t have that. Making a drop in replacement that works within the existing food culture does seem like a reasonable hack.

sirtaj 1y ago
I'd say that proportion of what you might call "vegan" food in india is quite small. Dairy-based products are everywhere in vegetarian dishes, and many (too many, imho) recipes treat paneer as the default stand-in for meat.
- pfannkuchen 1y ago
  Yeah that’s right, I should have said vegetarian.

annexrichmond 1y ago

Not everyone likes Indian food. I think most people like familiar flavors. Western people didn't grow up eating veggie-based food so I don't know why this is surprising. People just want to eat familiar things.

vb6sp6 1y ago

[dead]

hollandheese 1y ago

Say you're on the road with a vegetarian and the only place to stop is a fast food burger place. If that fast food place has a fake meat burger on the menu then they'll get a sale from the vegetarian.

dtagames 1y ago
Naw. There have been vegetarian sandwich patty options forever, years before fake meat. Like tofu burgers, TVP, bulgur wheat, and others.
- adultSwim 1y ago
  You can't get TVP at Burger King. The old veggie burgers tasted terrible.
  - jbaber 1y ago
    I used to just get the "veggie whopper" i.e. all of the fixings, but no pattie at all. There were enough bread, mayo, pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, cheese that I got plenty of calories and felt full.
  - nichos 1y ago
    For clarity, burger king is "Impossible" not beyond. A different company.

schoen 1y ago

What I've noticed, especially from visiting Singapore, is that Indian (and other South Asian) religious vegetarianism often involves finding great alternatives to meat, while Chinese religious vegetarian often involves finding imitations of meat. Both of these habits are rather strong culturally and it would probably feel kind of weird to Indian vegetarians to eat mock meat, or to Chinese vegetarians not to eat mock meat. The big (well, it's all relative!) mock meat store in Oakland, California, is in Chinatown and their staff and clientele are mostly Chinese, and their products are mostly from Chinese-speaking regions and companies. They have dozens of highly specific mock meats so that people can avoid the religious violations associated with eating meat, while continuing to have specific dishes that they're familiar with. I personally started out with aesthetic vegetarianism before getting into ethical vegetarianism; that means I disliked meat itself at first, so I usually haven't been excited for mock meat and sometimes have been grossed out by it. But I have a good friend who started out with ethical vegetarianism and has never gotten into aesthetic vegetarianism; he loved meat but came to feel that it was rather harmful and didn't want to be responsible for its production. He has been trying every single kind of mock meat that he can find ever since going vegetarian and has made many of them staple parts of his diet. I doubt that there's a single way to bridge this cultural gap or resolve it decisively in favor of one tradition or the other. I totally agree that cultures that have a native tradition of vegetarianism (Indian, Ethiopian, Eastern Orthodox Christian) have tended to come up with awesome stuff that's not based on meat at all. However, people going vegetarian from a non-vegetarian cultural and culinary background don't necessarily want to change their entire cuisine and palate as a result. For many of them, that means mock meats are an extremely appealing option!

hearsathought 1y ago
> I totally agree that cultures that have a native tradition of vegetarianism (Indian, Ethiopian, Eastern Orthodox Christian) None of these cultures have a "native" tradition of vegetarianism. They all started as meat eating cultures. > have tended to come up with awesome stuff that's not based on meat at all. Vegetarians don't need a meat alternative because vegetarians eat eggs, dairy, etc. Beyond Meat was part of the vegan movement.

adultSwim 1y ago

Food is important. Most people don't want to stop eating all the dishes they enjoy and just switch to Indian food. People lie on a spectrum of openness to new things. Developing a high quality direct alternative to a foundational yet highly fraught ingredient of the American diet makes sense to me. Even a bit less beef mitigates the near daily amputations by workers at processing plants or horrors we are adding to with climate annihilation. Personally, Impossible and Beyond materially improved my life by adding to it. I enjoy their products, and still make plenty of Indian food.

skavi 1y ago

I like indian food. I like a good black bean burger. I also like real meat and fake meat. I wouldn’t mind eating less real meat if the fake meat was even closer and offered more pervasively.