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Because you can't default on federal student loans. They garnish your wages. So just not paying isn't (currently) an option. Sure, if never having any income a

Because you can't default on federal student loans. They garnish your wages. So just not paying isn't (currently) an option. Sure, if never having any income and living off someone else is an option, you can do that.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
The U.S. Department of Education can garnish up to 15% of your disposable pay (your net wages after legally required deductions like taxes). However, they must leave you with at least 30 times the federal minimum wage, which is currently $7.25 per hour, or $217.50 per week. So, 15% for the rest of your life or until you can leave the country and are beyond their reach (if an option) if you cannot afford to pay them off. The reality for many is they will never have enough income potential to pay off this debt, so the best course of action is to bail on it to optimize for quality of life if you’ll never be able to pay it back. The developed world is hungry for young, educated talent. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/25/they-fled-the-country-to-escape-their-student-debt.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/25/they-fled-the-country-to-esc...
- SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
  Other country’s citizens leave to avoid military service, Americans leave to…avoid student loan repayments. That’s sad.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    If people leave your country because it sucks, that’s a governance problem, not a citizen problem. People are mobile, if they have options and can do better, they should take them. Life is short and you only live once. Debt is just accounting, it is a shared delusion like a currency. We set these citizens up to fail, and they’re the bad guys? Hardly. If you can escape the torment nexus, go, don’t look back. The torment nexus does not care about you. “The purpose of the system is what it does.”
    - Alive-in-2025 1y ago
      We've got a lot of governance problems. Our system allows college prices to get really high, mostly because 18 year kids can sign up for these guaranteed loans. They don't know what they are signing up for, and colleges just want students in seats. People don't know if their major has good employment prospects, avg salary and how that will affect their loan repayment. America chose to do this, banks make big money from the loans. Colleges make big money from students. We have a similar system with medical care. We have regulatory capture of our medical system by the drug sellers, medical groups, etc. We pay way way way more than other countries with worse outcomes. And the reaction of half the country, the republicans, it is we'll fix this by eliminating a lot of coverage for poor people. Democrats try to control costs, cover more poor people, get on a better trajectory and it's demonzied as destroying democracy. Meanwhile, our recently passed BBB bill takes billions out of medicare, ie coverage for poor people, many of whom voted for Trump. This whole thing is disgusting. I'm angry because of the loss of potential here, just like for student debt. My dad says colleges are corrupt because they "waste money on dei things" and that's why they have high costs (sadly not making this up). I try to explain college is not subsidized like it used to be when you went to college in the 60s. Similar thing with young people not affording housing, not having kids as much.
      - SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
        Oh boy it actually gets so much worse than you mention. If you have W2 income the cost of college is uniquely high to _you_. Very wealthy people who claim a business loss on their tax returns (through the massive spiderweb of itemized deductions) college, even ivy leagues, are free or almost free.
        nradov 1y ago
        Bullshit. FAFSA covers assets as well as income so wealthy families with zero taxable income aren't getting need-based financial aid. Unless they lie on the application, which is criminal fraud.
        1y ago
  - nradov 1y ago
    It's not sad, it's just a story. The number of Americans who actually emigrate to skip out on student debt is virtually zero.
    - red-iron-pine 1y ago
      like I'm sure it happens, but its trivial in terms of overall impact. immigrating to another country, even as an American with an in-demand degree, is not easy.
- onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
  Are you implying people are intentionally making less than $217 a week after taxes to avoid student debt payments? That seems like a losing strategy, like shooting yourself in the face to save your foot. I mean, there's millions of people with student debt - there's bound to be a few edge cases, but that really isn't relevant. Are you also implying that it's non-edge case to say, oh, I'll just not pay my student loans and then leave my country? Why would that be any more an option than people doing that for credit card debt? I mean, sure, there's some very small percentage in some table factored into the interest rate. Everyone else is either paying or getting their wages garnished (unless something in the future changes).
- nradov 1y ago
  Your advice makes no sense. The developed world is not hungry for young "talent" who are only educated in fields with no market value. It's not as if German companies are desperate to hire a bunch of Americans with Art History degrees.
  - gota 1y ago
    Just FYI, I stumbled upon this discussion the other day. This [1] is not the same source that was going around but states the same thing. "STEM graduates, often hailed as the golden ticket to career success, are facing unemployment rates that might make you double-take. For instance, computer engineering majors are grappling with a 7.5% unemployment rate, while art history majors—yes, the ones often mocked for their “impractical” degrees—are sitting pretty at just 3%. What’s going on here?" [1] https://capwolf.com/why-stem-grads-struggle-to-find-jobs-in-2025/ https://capwolf.com/why-stem-grads-struggle-to-find-jobs-in-...

toomuchtodo 1y ago

The U.S. Department of Education can garnish up to 15% of your disposable pay (your net wages after legally required deductions like taxes). However, they must leave you with at least 30 times the federal minimum wage, which is currently $7.25 per hour, or $217.50 per week. So, 15% for the rest of your life or until you can leave the country and are beyond their reach (if an option) if you cannot afford to pay them off. The reality for many is they will never have enough income potential to pay off this debt, so the best course of action is to bail on it to optimize for quality of life if you’ll never be able to pay it back. The developed world is hungry for young, educated talent. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/25/they-fled-the-country-to-escape-their-student-debt.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/25/they-fled-the-country-to-esc...

SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
Other country’s citizens leave to avoid military service, Americans leave to…avoid student loan repayments. That’s sad.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  If people leave your country because it sucks, that’s a governance problem, not a citizen problem. People are mobile, if they have options and can do better, they should take them. Life is short and you only live once. Debt is just accounting, it is a shared delusion like a currency. We set these citizens up to fail, and they’re the bad guys? Hardly. If you can escape the torment nexus, go, don’t look back. The torment nexus does not care about you. “The purpose of the system is what it does.”
  - Alive-in-2025 1y ago
    We've got a lot of governance problems. Our system allows college prices to get really high, mostly because 18 year kids can sign up for these guaranteed loans. They don't know what they are signing up for, and colleges just want students in seats. People don't know if their major has good employment prospects, avg salary and how that will affect their loan repayment. America chose to do this, banks make big money from the loans. Colleges make big money from students. We have a similar system with medical care. We have regulatory capture of our medical system by the drug sellers, medical groups, etc. We pay way way way more than other countries with worse outcomes. And the reaction of half the country, the republicans, it is we'll fix this by eliminating a lot of coverage for poor people. Democrats try to control costs, cover more poor people, get on a better trajectory and it's demonzied as destroying democracy. Meanwhile, our recently passed BBB bill takes billions out of medicare, ie coverage for poor people, many of whom voted for Trump. This whole thing is disgusting. I'm angry because of the loss of potential here, just like for student debt. My dad says colleges are corrupt because they "waste money on dei things" and that's why they have high costs (sadly not making this up). I try to explain college is not subsidized like it used to be when you went to college in the 60s. Similar thing with young people not affording housing, not having kids as much.
    - SlightlyLeftPad 1y ago
      Oh boy it actually gets so much worse than you mention. If you have W2 income the cost of college is uniquely high to _you_. Very wealthy people who claim a business loss on their tax returns (through the massive spiderweb of itemized deductions) college, even ivy leagues, are free or almost free.
      - nradov 1y ago
        Bullshit. FAFSA covers assets as well as income so wealthy families with zero taxable income aren't getting need-based financial aid. Unless they lie on the application, which is criminal fraud.
        1y ago
- nradov 1y ago
  It's not sad, it's just a story. The number of Americans who actually emigrate to skip out on student debt is virtually zero.
  - red-iron-pine 1y ago
    like I'm sure it happens, but its trivial in terms of overall impact. immigrating to another country, even as an American with an in-demand degree, is not easy.
onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
Are you implying people are intentionally making less than $217 a week after taxes to avoid student debt payments? That seems like a losing strategy, like shooting yourself in the face to save your foot. I mean, there's millions of people with student debt - there's bound to be a few edge cases, but that really isn't relevant. Are you also implying that it's non-edge case to say, oh, I'll just not pay my student loans and then leave my country? Why would that be any more an option than people doing that for credit card debt? I mean, sure, there's some very small percentage in some table factored into the interest rate. Everyone else is either paying or getting their wages garnished (unless something in the future changes).
nradov 1y ago
Your advice makes no sense. The developed world is not hungry for young "talent" who are only educated in fields with no market value. It's not as if German companies are desperate to hire a bunch of Americans with Art History degrees.
- gota 1y ago
  Just FYI, I stumbled upon this discussion the other day. This [1] is not the same source that was going around but states the same thing. "STEM graduates, often hailed as the golden ticket to career success, are facing unemployment rates that might make you double-take. For instance, computer engineering majors are grappling with a 7.5% unemployment rate, while art history majors—yes, the ones often mocked for their “impractical” degrees—are sitting pretty at just 3%. What’s going on here?" [1] https://capwolf.com/why-stem-grads-struggle-to-find-jobs-in-2025/ https://capwolf.com/why-stem-grads-struggle-to-find-jobs-in-...