4 ms·

Why we should stop thinking

42 points by olidale 14y ago

autophil 14y ago
Well, it must be working for the guys at Buffer because it's brilliant software. I use it for my clients and my own projects. Buffer is to social media as MailChimp is to email marketing. It's that good. Keep it up!
nathan_f77 14y ago
I strongly disagree with this article. I remember reading a story about some speaker (maybe Malcolm Gladwell?) who convinced business executives to just stop thinking, and make snap decisions from their gut feelings. However, it turned out to be terrible advice, and their businesses went downhill. (Sorry I can't provide citations.) I saw Men in Black 3 tonight. There's a scene where Agent K decides to stop worrying about their problem, and just go and eat pie. They took a moment to think and talk about unrelated things, and J had an epiphany that solved their problem. As a programmer, I love being 'in the zone', when the hours feel like minutes. But sometimes I get stuck on a problem, and stepping away from the keyboard gives my brain a chance to regroup. More often than not, the solution just pops into my head while I'm thinking about something else. If anything, I think entrepreneurs should try to spend more time thinking. If you want to know what your customers want, you need to listen to them. Listening is defined as 'giving one's attention', and attention requires thinking about what they're trying to tell you. Anyway, I think you need to strike the balance that works for you. That might be anywhere between 'just doing things and failing a lot', and 'over-analyzing every decision', but both extremes can be dangerous.
D_Alex 14y ago
From http://lesswrong.com/lw/tz/my_best_and_worst_mistake/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/tz/my_best_and_worst_mistake/, a quote that I spent a long time thinking about: "As a general idea, high level intellectual exploration should consume substantially more time than goal-directed action, but there are few social encouragements to behave in this manner so the only people who do so are essentially those who are addicted to such intellectual exploration and have no propensity or willingness to take action at all."
michaelfeathers 14y ago
The author uses the word "presence" instead of "present" a number of times (i.e., A state of experiencing the presence). Made me think it was going to be religious article.
- LeonW 14y ago
  thanks for the heads up, removed the confusion and exchanged with "present moment".
  - michaelfeathers 14y ago
    no prob
nileshtrivedi 14y ago
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/232/ https://xkcd.com/232/
loceng 14y ago
You need to learn a balance that works for you. I have gone through long periods of hyper-thinking and it wasn't healthy overall, though I figured out a lot and I came through the other end; I have cycles like this and every time I am better prepared and it goes better each time. What I found helped the most is becoming better organized, feeling more comfortable with your organization - and this really starts with discipline, routine of discipline and of taking care of yourself and particularly of doing 'grounding' activities (that take you out of your head). I wrote more thoughts on this a little while back ... http://mattamyers.tumblr.com/post/23794547268/routine/ http://mattamyers.tumblr.com/post/23794547268/routine/
olliesaunders 14y ago
You should think more. You should think less. You should be constantly thinking. You should never think at all. It’s not that simple yo. Maybe the author of this article has a particular person and a particular task in mind when he says you should think less but, if you take him literally (as if he is saying all people should think less, all the time), he is definitely wrong. We didn’t evolve awkwardly large brains because they look nice or because god likes women to die giving birth. Here’s are my two most important points: how much you should think depends on task at hand and whether you should modify the amount you think depends on your current habits. Any person who tells you how much to think and hasn’t considered these points is talking to the clouds. Examples: Yesterday I was transferring computer components between two different cases. While trying to install the optical drive, without thinking I kept putting the mounting brackets on the wrong way. Once I was sufficiently frustrated I actually thought about what I was doing. I realized that there were 8 possible ways to mount the brackets; only one way was correct; and then, after about 20 seconds of thinking, I learned the correct way and why it was correct. Had I used those 20 seconds of thinking at the start I could have saved myself 20 minutes of fumbling around. Moral of the story: thinking is good? Second example. When I come home from the store I have to unpack my shopping into an inadequately sized fridge. When this problem was novel to me I used to pontificate about the best packing configuration and create a detailed plan. When unpacking I would find some things wouldn’t fit and others would have too much space so the plan needed to be revised. I would also worry about how difficult it was to retrieve things from the fridge once I’d packed them so I could find myself standing in front of the fridge for quite some time trying to make the best possible decisions. Needless to say, I don’t do this any more. Instead I just start packing the shopping away and I just try things until its all packed and I don’t worry too much. I suppose I’m still thinking as I’m doing it but I’m also in a state of flow. Moral of the story: thinking is bad? I think the point here has less to do with thinking and everything to do with control. We are naturally wired to find situations where we are out of control stressful and so we conclude that more control is always better when actually getting control of some things is more work than it’s worth. Perhaps this is a lesson programmers need to learn more than other people. I used to program for a living and now I work with people a lot more than computers. I’m still having difficulty getting used to the fact that some of the people I work with aren’t that bright, or don’t care about doing a good job, or are used to always getting their own way. If you try to control that, you go insane. As a corollary, maybe if you limit your attempts to control to a reasonable degree and you are able to keep your thinking focused, you should think as much as possible. Please criticize what I’ve said here.
espeed 14y ago
It does take a while to build understanding. Maybe the reason many people's understanding is so "fragile", as Feynman observed (http://books.google.com/books?id=7papZR4oVssC&lpg=PP1&ots=esR08asR_V&dq=surely%20you%20must%20be%20joking%20mr%20feynman&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q=fragile&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=7papZR4oVssC&lpg=PP1&#3...), is because they don't spend enough time building it and so they only have surface-level understanding. But once you get over the initial hump in whatever area you are digging in to, once you've explored it from every angle, you'll be able to move faster and make better decisions. Rich Hickey spent a year researching and building his understanding before writing Clojure, and another before Datomic. This practice would seem to go against the lean startup methodology, but maybe we shouldn't be starting a startup until we have done this for the technologies we are using.
stefek99 14y ago
"Don't think. Get your hands dirty. Get stuff done." - right now becomes my Twitter signature :)
jinfiesto 14y ago
Hmmm. While I agree with the article to a point, I'm not sure it's really a good idea to just stop thinking. I'm a practicing Buddhist, and so it's important for me to meditate and try to spend time being "in the moment." That being said, when everything is going well, that sort of "opening the hand of thought" state is just what my brain defaults to. Instead of woolgathering, I just pseudo-meditate. Thinking is important. We definitely shouldn't stop doing it. On the other hand, certain kinds of thinking are not important. It's probably good if we stop doing those kinds of thinking.
lagom 14y ago
I think the contrast between mindfulness and mindlessness is more apt than that of thinking and non-thinking. I consider his call to non-thinking to be more hyperbolic than anything else. I believe the primary goal is really that of focus without distracting thoughts, and non-thinking is a way to practice observing the present without being consumed by the stream of thoughts. In this sense, mindlessness refers to states where one's mind is wandering or unfocused from the present task. Obviously non-thinking is not practical for all activities, but mindfulness includes both non-thinking observation and focused thinking when necessary. Many people associate non-thinking with aimless mind-wandering, which is certainly not the original message of this article. On the contrary, the article is referring to non-thinking as simple observation without judgment or distractions from the mind. Non-thinking, along with meditation, is more of a practice for the application of mindfulness in day-to-day life.
minm 14y ago
Probably one of the best article i have read in recent times. I cannot agree enough. I have been struggling with this problem for last 3 years. It is not really easy. Trying meditation is a good idea or going to mountains. I think this problem applies to only certain personality types like ENFP. In my opinion, Not all may be able to relate to the article.

42 points by olidale 14y ago

Well, it must be working for the guys at Buffer because it's brilliant software. I use it for my clients and my own projects. Buffer is to social media as MailChimp is to email marketing. It's that good. Keep it up!

nathan_f77 14y ago

I strongly disagree with this article. I remember reading a story about some speaker (maybe Malcolm Gladwell?) who convinced business executives to just stop thinking, and make snap decisions from their gut feelings. However, it turned out to be terrible advice, and their businesses went downhill. (Sorry I can't provide citations.) I saw Men in Black 3 tonight. There's a scene where Agent K decides to stop worrying about their problem, and just go and eat pie. They took a moment to think and talk about unrelated things, and J had an epiphany that solved their problem. As a programmer, I love being 'in the zone', when the hours feel like minutes. But sometimes I get stuck on a problem, and stepping away from the keyboard gives my brain a chance to regroup. More often than not, the solution just pops into my head while I'm thinking about something else. If anything, I think entrepreneurs should try to spend more time thinking. If you want to know what your customers want, you need to listen to them. Listening is defined as 'giving one's attention', and attention requires thinking about what they're trying to tell you. Anyway, I think you need to strike the balance that works for you. That might be anywhere between 'just doing things and failing a lot', and 'over-analyzing every decision', but both extremes can be dangerous.

D_Alex 14y ago

From http://lesswrong.com/lw/tz/my_best_and_worst_mistake/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/tz/my_best_and_worst_mistake/, a quote that I spent a long time thinking about: "As a general idea, high level intellectual exploration should consume substantially more time than goal-directed action, but there are few social encouragements to behave in this manner so the only people who do so are essentially those who are addicted to such intellectual exploration and have no propensity or willingness to take action at all."

michaelfeathers 14y ago

The author uses the word "presence" instead of "present" a number of times (i.e., A state of experiencing the presence). Made me think it was going to be religious article.

LeonW 14y ago
thanks for the heads up, removed the confusion and exchanged with "present moment".
- michaelfeathers 14y ago
  no prob

nileshtrivedi 14y ago

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/232/ https://xkcd.com/232/

loceng 14y ago

You need to learn a balance that works for you. I have gone through long periods of hyper-thinking and it wasn't healthy overall, though I figured out a lot and I came through the other end; I have cycles like this and every time I am better prepared and it goes better each time. What I found helped the most is becoming better organized, feeling more comfortable with your organization - and this really starts with discipline, routine of discipline and of taking care of yourself and particularly of doing 'grounding' activities (that take you out of your head). I wrote more thoughts on this a little while back ... http://mattamyers.tumblr.com/post/23794547268/routine/ http://mattamyers.tumblr.com/post/23794547268/routine/

olliesaunders 14y ago

You should think more. You should think less. You should be constantly thinking. You should never think at all. It’s not that simple yo. Maybe the author of this article has a particular person and a particular task in mind when he says you should think less but, if you take him literally (as if he is saying all people should think less, all the time), he is definitely wrong. We didn’t evolve awkwardly large brains because they look nice or because god likes women to die giving birth. Here’s are my two most important points: how much you should think depends on task at hand and whether you should modify the amount you think depends on your current habits. Any person who tells you how much to think and hasn’t considered these points is talking to the clouds. Examples: Yesterday I was transferring computer components between two different cases. While trying to install the optical drive, without thinking I kept putting the mounting brackets on the wrong way. Once I was sufficiently frustrated I actually thought about what I was doing. I realized that there were 8 possible ways to mount the brackets; only one way was correct; and then, after about 20 seconds of thinking, I learned the correct way and why it was correct. Had I used those 20 seconds of thinking at the start I could have saved myself 20 minutes of fumbling around. Moral of the story: thinking is good? Second example. When I come home from the store I have to unpack my shopping into an inadequately sized fridge. When this problem was novel to me I used to pontificate about the best packing configuration and create a detailed plan. When unpacking I would find some things wouldn’t fit and others would have too much space so the plan needed to be revised. I would also worry about how difficult it was to retrieve things from the fridge once I’d packed them so I could find myself standing in front of the fridge for quite some time trying to make the best possible decisions. Needless to say, I don’t do this any more. Instead I just start packing the shopping away and I just try things until its all packed and I don’t worry too much. I suppose I’m still thinking as I’m doing it but I’m also in a state of flow. Moral of the story: thinking is bad? I think the point here has less to do with thinking and everything to do with control. We are naturally wired to find situations where we are out of control stressful and so we conclude that more control is always better when actually getting control of some things is more work than it’s worth. Perhaps this is a lesson programmers need to learn more than other people. I used to program for a living and now I work with people a lot more than computers. I’m still having difficulty getting used to the fact that some of the people I work with aren’t that bright, or don’t care about doing a good job, or are used to always getting their own way. If you try to control that, you go insane. As a corollary, maybe if you limit your attempts to control to a reasonable degree and you are able to keep your thinking focused, you should think as much as possible. Please criticize what I’ve said here.

espeed 14y ago

It does take a while to build understanding. Maybe the reason many people's understanding is so "fragile", as Feynman observed (http://books.google.com/books?id=7papZR4oVssC&lpg=PP1&ots=esR08asR_V&dq=surely%20you%20must%20be%20joking%20mr%20feynman&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q=fragile&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=7papZR4oVssC&lpg=PP1&#3...), is because they don't spend enough time building it and so they only have surface-level understanding. But once you get over the initial hump in whatever area you are digging in to, once you've explored it from every angle, you'll be able to move faster and make better decisions. Rich Hickey spent a year researching and building his understanding before writing Clojure, and another before Datomic. This practice would seem to go against the lean startup methodology, but maybe we shouldn't be starting a startup until we have done this for the technologies we are using.

stefek99 14y ago

"Don't think. Get your hands dirty. Get stuff done." - right now becomes my Twitter signature :)

jinfiesto 14y ago

Hmmm. While I agree with the article to a point, I'm not sure it's really a good idea to just stop thinking. I'm a practicing Buddhist, and so it's important for me to meditate and try to spend time being "in the moment." That being said, when everything is going well, that sort of "opening the hand of thought" state is just what my brain defaults to. Instead of woolgathering, I just pseudo-meditate. Thinking is important. We definitely shouldn't stop doing it. On the other hand, certain kinds of thinking are not important. It's probably good if we stop doing those kinds of thinking.

lagom 14y ago

I think the contrast between mindfulness and mindlessness is more apt than that of thinking and non-thinking. I consider his call to non-thinking to be more hyperbolic than anything else. I believe the primary goal is really that of focus without distracting thoughts, and non-thinking is a way to practice observing the present without being consumed by the stream of thoughts. In this sense, mindlessness refers to states where one's mind is wandering or unfocused from the present task. Obviously non-thinking is not practical for all activities, but mindfulness includes both non-thinking observation and focused thinking when necessary. Many people associate non-thinking with aimless mind-wandering, which is certainly not the original message of this article. On the contrary, the article is referring to non-thinking as simple observation without judgment or distractions from the mind. Non-thinking, along with meditation, is more of a practice for the application of mindfulness in day-to-day life.

minm 14y ago

Probably one of the best article i have read in recent times. I cannot agree enough. I have been struggling with this problem for last 3 years. It is not really easy. Trying meditation is a good idea or going to mountains. I think this problem applies to only certain personality types like ENFP. In my opinion, Not all may be able to relate to the article.