6 ms·

We are giving India the IT market, just like China got manufacturing.

by b3ing 1y ago

mertleee 1y ago
It's precisely this. Trump is allowing one of the last vestiges of the American middle class to be outsourced to India. Just like Clinton allowed the same to happen with factory jobs to China. As a person of color this is even more detestable.
- ipnon 1y ago
  As a person of grayscale the contrast is undeniable.
  - the_third_wave 1y ago
    You Grayscale people have it easy, at least you have contrast. As a person of Transparency I end up overlooked everywhere all the time.
- platevoltage 1y ago
  At least we will be able to get jobs putting plastic forks in boxes now. Maybe we will be able to use those green GitHub tiles to negotiate better pay.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 1y ago
  [flagged]
- MangoCoffee 1y ago
  "No More Offshore. Startups Look to Spend and Hire in U.S. Due to Trump Tax Change." https://www.wsj.com/tech/tech-startups-hiring-us-workers-30f70207?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAjDWgoNcII2_AQilabzgWCa5KqkWx6A_GLDa3RsEYaSNGbtcsA7Tt1X&gaa_ts=689ff101&gaa_sig=OlDvonPp-TtrTejwuvXDdA7kEv-tclp61-D-XF2Llp5Vgjm3LB38Kx4HB_WK3uxYcGpejPrD8wfK3epbQLs-RA%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/tech/tech-startups-hiring-us-workers-30f... I don't understand how Trump is allowing anything with headline like this.
  - yodon 1y ago
    The BBB fixed some previously dire flaws in how tax law treated spending on software salaries in the US.
  - tchock23 1y ago
    Create the problem. Fix the problem. Win!
    - burnerthrow008 1y ago
      The other side did have 4 years to fix it, though. I do wonder if the last election would have gone differently if all the people directly and indirectly affected by that hadn't been.
      - Terr_ 1y ago
        > The other side did have 4 years to fix it, though. They did try, incorporating some relief into a bill in 2021, however: > In the House version of the Build Back Better Act passed in November 2021, the effective date for the amendment made by the TCJA to Section 174 was delayed until tax years beginning after December 31, 2025. While this specific provision of the bill enjoyed broad bipartisan support, comments made by Senator Joe Manchin (D-W.V.) in late December indicating his opposition to the bill effectively stalled progress on the Build Back Better Act, making the path forward on legislation unclear. -- https://www.bdo.com/insights/tax/significant-change-to-the-treatment-of-r-e-expenditure-under-section-174-now-in-effect https://www.bdo.com/insights/tax/significant-change-to-the-t... That bill did narrowly survive, but only in a stripped-down form with that Section-174 provision removed to satisfy the Senate fence-sitters. Manchin later left the Democratic party.
- fuzzfactor 1y ago
  Actually it was Nixon who single-handedly pushed manufacturing to China, and Reagan who pushed harder. Clinton just didn't do anything serious which could reverse this, and other Republican actions are what "allowed" further Chinese growth rates than that. IOW almost anybody who had any influence was allowing prosperity to recede from our shores more so than Clinton. not my downvote btw
- moi2388 1y ago
  And as a white person it’s even more detestable still. Since skin color somehow matters /s
- ponector 1y ago
  Right, it was Trump who allowed IT services to be outsourced for the last two decades.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    I mean... yeah? Tim Cook and Trump were documented buddies in the first term of his presidency. No over-the-table attacks over offshored manufacturing or outsourced services. They probably celebrated the demise of Intel over a filet mignon and Coca-Cola while discussing the merits of lower manufacturing margins. The idea that now Trump (or anyone, for that matter) wants to bail-out American chipmaking is laughable. Intel bet wrong, and now all of America has to satisfy itself with being critically reliant on Taiwan for our highest-margin products. You don't have to blame Trump, but there's no reason any corrective action shouldn't have been done during the first term. We either let Intel drown or send them a government-issued life raft - we can't teach them to swim from underwater.
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
Worse because we're giving it to India in the US.
- aurareturn 1y ago
  I've been saying this on HN since 2022: For all the pro-WFH/fully remote developers on HN who live in North America, you're going to be in for a surprise when your company decides to replace you with someone living in another country. Why hire you when the company can hire someone who costs 1/5 of you and is willing to work harder without complaining? Both of you are remote anyway. So what if the new hire works at night and sleeps during the day? For all pro-WFH/fully remote developers living in North America, you should be cheering for return to office mandates. It'll probably save your career long-term.
  - jurking_hoff 1y ago
    [dead]
  - billy99k 1y ago
    Our company only uses teams in eastern europe. The cost is 1/3 the salary of someone in the US. Remote work during covid improved remote management and communication, which is needed to fully outsource workers.
  - whatever1 1y ago
    If it can be done more cheaply then some competitor will do it and kill your business that doesn’t. Either find another competitive edge (be better or convince somehow the customers that you deserve the premium you ask for), or do what Trump does, introduce tarrifs for imports and cutoff the more more efficient companies from reaching the local market. And of course pay the price for it.
  - jjmarr 1y ago
    I live in Canada and most skilled developers self-sort into the American market as it's a 2x salary differential. Important roles at multinationals are therefore hired in the USA. Even though all countries are officially "equal" in the eyes of a multinational, with salary based on market conditions/cost of living, in practice developers at the same job level have very different impacts. This has been true for decades. I don't think this dynamic will change even in a WFH/remote environment because it's a great excuse for companies to reward engineers differently based on impact while still preserving job title equality. It's similar to manufacturing in Germany. Salaries are higher so it naturally attracts talent. You can get things cheaper abroad, and many do, but if you want it done right...

We are giving India the IT market, just like China got manufacturing.

by b3ing 1y ago

We are giving India the IT market, just like China got manufacturing.

It's precisely this. Trump is allowing one of the last vestiges of the American middle class to be outsourced to India. Just like Clinton allowed the same to happen with factory jobs to China. As a person of color this is even more detestable.

ipnon 1y ago
As a person of grayscale the contrast is undeniable.
- the_third_wave 1y ago
  You Grayscale people have it easy, at least you have contrast. As a person of Transparency I end up overlooked everywhere all the time.
platevoltage 1y ago
At least we will be able to get jobs putting plastic forks in boxes now. Maybe we will be able to use those green GitHub tiles to negotiate better pay.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 1y ago
[flagged]
MangoCoffee 1y ago
"No More Offshore. Startups Look to Spend and Hire in U.S. Due to Trump Tax Change." https://www.wsj.com/tech/tech-startups-hiring-us-workers-30f70207?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAjDWgoNcII2_AQilabzgWCa5KqkWx6A_GLDa3RsEYaSNGbtcsA7Tt1X&gaa_ts=689ff101&gaa_sig=OlDvonPp-TtrTejwuvXDdA7kEv-tclp61-D-XF2Llp5Vgjm3LB38Kx4HB_WK3uxYcGpejPrD8wfK3epbQLs-RA%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/tech/tech-startups-hiring-us-workers-30f... I don't understand how Trump is allowing anything with headline like this.
- yodon 1y ago
  The BBB fixed some previously dire flaws in how tax law treated spending on software salaries in the US.
- tchock23 1y ago
  Create the problem. Fix the problem. Win!
  - burnerthrow008 1y ago
    The other side did have 4 years to fix it, though. I do wonder if the last election would have gone differently if all the people directly and indirectly affected by that hadn't been.
    - Terr_ 1y ago
      > The other side did have 4 years to fix it, though. They did try, incorporating some relief into a bill in 2021, however: > In the House version of the Build Back Better Act passed in November 2021, the effective date for the amendment made by the TCJA to Section 174 was delayed until tax years beginning after December 31, 2025. While this specific provision of the bill enjoyed broad bipartisan support, comments made by Senator Joe Manchin (D-W.V.) in late December indicating his opposition to the bill effectively stalled progress on the Build Back Better Act, making the path forward on legislation unclear. -- https://www.bdo.com/insights/tax/significant-change-to-the-treatment-of-r-e-expenditure-under-section-174-now-in-effect https://www.bdo.com/insights/tax/significant-change-to-the-t... That bill did narrowly survive, but only in a stripped-down form with that Section-174 provision removed to satisfy the Senate fence-sitters. Manchin later left the Democratic party.
fuzzfactor 1y ago
Actually it was Nixon who single-handedly pushed manufacturing to China, and Reagan who pushed harder. Clinton just didn't do anything serious which could reverse this, and other Republican actions are what "allowed" further Chinese growth rates than that. IOW almost anybody who had any influence was allowing prosperity to recede from our shores more so than Clinton. not my downvote btw
moi2388 1y ago
And as a white person it’s even more detestable still. Since skin color somehow matters /s
ponector 1y ago
Right, it was Trump who allowed IT services to be outsourced for the last two decades.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  I mean... yeah? Tim Cook and Trump were documented buddies in the first term of his presidency. No over-the-table attacks over offshored manufacturing or outsourced services. They probably celebrated the demise of Intel over a filet mignon and Coca-Cola while discussing the merits of lower manufacturing margins. The idea that now Trump (or anyone, for that matter) wants to bail-out American chipmaking is laughable. Intel bet wrong, and now all of America has to satisfy itself with being critically reliant on Taiwan for our highest-margin products. You don't have to blame Trump, but there's no reason any corrective action shouldn't have been done during the first term. We either let Intel drown or send them a government-issued life raft - we can't teach them to swim from underwater.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago

Worse because we're giving it to India in the US.

aurareturn 1y ago
I've been saying this on HN since 2022: For all the pro-WFH/fully remote developers on HN who live in North America, you're going to be in for a surprise when your company decides to replace you with someone living in another country. Why hire you when the company can hire someone who costs 1/5 of you and is willing to work harder without complaining? Both of you are remote anyway. So what if the new hire works at night and sleeps during the day? For all pro-WFH/fully remote developers living in North America, you should be cheering for return to office mandates. It'll probably save your career long-term.
- jurking_hoff 1y ago
  [dead]
- billy99k 1y ago
  Our company only uses teams in eastern europe. The cost is 1/3 the salary of someone in the US. Remote work during covid improved remote management and communication, which is needed to fully outsource workers.
- whatever1 1y ago
  If it can be done more cheaply then some competitor will do it and kill your business that doesn’t. Either find another competitive edge (be better or convince somehow the customers that you deserve the premium you ask for), or do what Trump does, introduce tarrifs for imports and cutoff the more more efficient companies from reaching the local market. And of course pay the price for it.
- jjmarr 1y ago
  I live in Canada and most skilled developers self-sort into the American market as it's a 2x salary differential. Important roles at multinationals are therefore hired in the USA. Even though all countries are officially "equal" in the eyes of a multinational, with salary based on market conditions/cost of living, in practice developers at the same job level have very different impacts. This has been true for decades. I don't think this dynamic will change even in a WFH/remote environment because it's a great excuse for companies to reward engineers differently based on impact while still preserving job title equality. It's similar to manufacturing in Germany. Salaries are higher so it naturally attracts talent. You can get things cheaper abroad, and many do, but if you want it done right...