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Well this starts off with a bang: >In germany we just saw very public rigging of an election for the federal high court of justice. Not familiar with that but

Well this starts off with a bang: >In germany we just saw very public rigging of an election for the federal high court of justice. Not familiar with that but I imagine that is going to be a controversial statement. Using Russia as a subject is interesting. A western audience is probably a lot less defensive against the idea that Russia rigs their elections. The video looks interesting.

V__ 1y ago
It isn't. A right wind millionaire and his media outlet started a fake campaign against the potential judge. Other media and social media jumped on it as well and the "normal" conservative party was "concerned". A lot of heel-dragging later, the judge had enough and withdrew herself from consideration.
- immibis 1y ago
  In Germany it's often illegal to make strong statements like this unless they can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Is that the case? (That's partly why Germany is getting infested with Nazis again. You can go to jail for calling them out.)
  - V__ 1y ago
    It's a civil matter, but yes. Sadly, courts are slow and the whole story was "there might have been plagiarism in her thesis". Even as traditional media started to explain the story as baseless, social media is a different beast.
  - ranger_danger 1y ago
    Can you provide some sources to back up your claims?
    - immibis 1y ago
      German criminal code aka Strafgesetzbuch. A semi-official English translation is available.
tietjens 1y ago
It shouldn’t be that controversial a statement. It’s an accurate assessment of what happened this summer in Germany. A judicial candidate was destroyed by false claims online. To me it seemed like German politicians were reading too much US news and wound up aping patterns seen there.
devjab 1y ago
> Not familiar with that but I imagine that is going to be a controversial statement. I'm not sure if it's fair to call it rigging, but there was a massive smear campaign against a judge nominated for their constitutional court. Leading to the nomination being withdrawn when it really should've been an appointment as usual. Which is likely the first massive step toward Germany politicising one of the foundations of their democracy, similar to how the USA supreme court seems like it's red vs blue when looked on from the outside. I'm guessing this conference is rather left leaning, which is why they'd called that rigging, but there wasn't election fraud. It's an issue of course, since this means that rich people can essentially buy massive influence on the German democracy by clever use of social media and lies. Which may seem like the norm to a lot of people on HN, but that's not how it has traditionally been in Germany.
- nozzlegear 1y ago
  > similar to how the USA supreme court seems like it's red vs blue when looked on from the outside. It's not just the outside who see it that way!
- stronglikedan 1y ago
  So they Kavanaugh'd him, but it actually worked!
  - dylan604 1y ago
    If Kavanaugh has become a verb, shouldn't Garland'd be a thing too when the Senate denies POTUS his constitutional right?
    - delichon 1y ago
      Since Garland didn't even get to a vote, it wasn't necessary to Kavanaugh (or Bork) him to the same degree. Abe Fortus got denied a vote via filibuster in '68, so you could say that Merrick Garland was Fortused.
      - 1y ago
dathinab 1y ago
> imagine that is going to be a controversial statement. not really but compared to what seems to be happened nearly daily in the US it really is not a big deal but compared to what is supposed to happen it was a big deal which seems to be a common trend, being very pissed of about what happened in German politics, then looking to the US and being "they did what now!?", oh it seems things are still fine here
- sho_hn 1y ago
  Maybe pick a functional democracy as your yardstick?
  - dylan604 1y ago
    Can you provide an example? Are there any left?
    - seadan83 1y ago
      France, UK, Norway, Spain, Canada.. here's your list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
      - dathinab 1y ago
        France is worse in the index. UK, Canada, Spain are similar ranked. Norway is better ranked, sure so are most other Nordic countries. But the difference between a (using their terms) "full democracy" and a noticeable better (in the index) "full democracy" is much less noticeable then the difference between a "full democracy" and a "flawed democracy". The other thing is that is a more then imperfect index. To be able to create such an index you need to select metrics and criteria which are strongly oversimplified. Weather or not this can lead to a bias. Also there is a time delay e.g. 2025 stats are not yet out. Anyway I'm really getting off topic. The more relevant thing is, that it doesn't matter too much if there are better (or worse) of countries in the index. What rally matters is that you see where your country can improve an try to push for it, even if it's just with voting, otherwise you will stagnate improvements once you reach a relative high standard.

V__ 1y ago

It isn't. A right wind millionaire and his media outlet started a fake campaign against the potential judge. Other media and social media jumped on it as well and the "normal" conservative party was "concerned". A lot of heel-dragging later, the judge had enough and withdrew herself from consideration.

immibis 1y ago
In Germany it's often illegal to make strong statements like this unless they can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Is that the case? (That's partly why Germany is getting infested with Nazis again. You can go to jail for calling them out.)
- V__ 1y ago
  It's a civil matter, but yes. Sadly, courts are slow and the whole story was "there might have been plagiarism in her thesis". Even as traditional media started to explain the story as baseless, social media is a different beast.
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  Can you provide some sources to back up your claims?
  - immibis 1y ago
    German criminal code aka Strafgesetzbuch. A semi-official English translation is available.

tietjens 1y ago

It shouldn’t be that controversial a statement. It’s an accurate assessment of what happened this summer in Germany. A judicial candidate was destroyed by false claims online. To me it seemed like German politicians were reading too much US news and wound up aping patterns seen there.

devjab 1y ago

> Not familiar with that but I imagine that is going to be a controversial statement. I'm not sure if it's fair to call it rigging, but there was a massive smear campaign against a judge nominated for their constitutional court. Leading to the nomination being withdrawn when it really should've been an appointment as usual. Which is likely the first massive step toward Germany politicising one of the foundations of their democracy, similar to how the USA supreme court seems like it's red vs blue when looked on from the outside. I'm guessing this conference is rather left leaning, which is why they'd called that rigging, but there wasn't election fraud. It's an issue of course, since this means that rich people can essentially buy massive influence on the German democracy by clever use of social media and lies. Which may seem like the norm to a lot of people on HN, but that's not how it has traditionally been in Germany.

nozzlegear 1y ago
> similar to how the USA supreme court seems like it's red vs blue when looked on from the outside. It's not just the outside who see it that way!
stronglikedan 1y ago
So they Kavanaugh'd him, but it actually worked!
- dylan604 1y ago
  If Kavanaugh has become a verb, shouldn't Garland'd be a thing too when the Senate denies POTUS his constitutional right?
  - delichon 1y ago
    Since Garland didn't even get to a vote, it wasn't necessary to Kavanaugh (or Bork) him to the same degree. Abe Fortus got denied a vote via filibuster in '68, so you could say that Merrick Garland was Fortused.
    - 1y ago

dathinab 1y ago

> imagine that is going to be a controversial statement. not really but compared to what seems to be happened nearly daily in the US it really is not a big deal but compared to what is supposed to happen it was a big deal which seems to be a common trend, being very pissed of about what happened in German politics, then looking to the US and being "they did what now!?", oh it seems things are still fine here

sho_hn 1y ago
Maybe pick a functional democracy as your yardstick?
- dylan604 1y ago
  Can you provide an example? Are there any left?
  - seadan83 1y ago
    France, UK, Norway, Spain, Canada.. here's your list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
    - dathinab 1y ago
      France is worse in the index. UK, Canada, Spain are similar ranked. Norway is better ranked, sure so are most other Nordic countries. But the difference between a (using their terms) "full democracy" and a noticeable better (in the index) "full democracy" is much less noticeable then the difference between a "full democracy" and a "flawed democracy". The other thing is that is a more then imperfect index. To be able to create such an index you need to select metrics and criteria which are strongly oversimplified. Weather or not this can lead to a bias. Also there is a time delay e.g. 2025 stats are not yet out. Anyway I'm really getting off topic. The more relevant thing is, that it doesn't matter too much if there are better (or worse) of countries in the index. What rally matters is that you see where your country can improve an try to push for it, even if it's just with voting, otherwise you will stagnate improvements once you reach a relative high standard.