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> Regardless of whether pornography is, or should be legal, average exposure is now 11 years old. You make it sound like historically it was much later but act

> Regardless of whether pornography is, or should be legal, average exposure is now 11 years old. You make it sound like historically it was much later but actually even in the 1980s 11 years old was common. In fact, that matches my own personal experience from that era. > Or, another one, “just use parental controls,” have you even tried this? Parental Controls is the right answer but absolutely agree that parental controls suck. As a parent, I'd love just any level of better control. I don't even care if I have different controls per manufacturer as long they're pretty complete and capable. If the EU can mandate USB-C, they can mandate all technologies include powerful and capable parental controls. There is no need for age verification -- parents know how old their children are. Parents are providing children with the devices and often the means of connectivity as well. This is and has always been a parenting problem. If the government wants to assist parents, I'm all for that. But age verification is not the answer.

gjsman-1000 1y ago
> mandate all technologies include powerful and capable parental controls That is, until Linux is also forced to come into compliance with said parental control standard, complete with all centralized reporting and remote restriction capabilities. > This is and has always been a parenting problem. What do governments do when everyone has the same parenting problem? Listen to industry idealists, like those who would call teenage smoking a “parenting problem,” or crack down?
- wvenable 1y ago
  > That is, until Linux is also forced to come into compliance with said parental control standard, complete with all centralized reporting and remote restriction capabilities. Linux is fine. Someone can build the ultimately perfect parental control software for Linux and I'll use it. The same cannot be said for Windows, Android, or iOS -- third party system cannot exist for those platforms that are sufficient unless they're made by Microsoft, Google, or Apple respectively. Perhaps we just have to mandate an open standard. In fact, I would prefer that. > What do governments do when everyone has the same parenting problem? The wrong thing. Always.
  - crote 1y ago
    > Linux is fine. Someone can build the ultimately perfect parental control software for Linux and I'll use it. You can't build a perfectly secure system and still respect the user's freedom. The perfect parental control system is by definition also going to be the ultimate rootkit - or else you'd just boot your own kernel which perfectly fakes the parental controls. In such a world you wouldn't be allowed to build your own OS, only boot a pre-approved image. The Linux community is not exactly likely to participate in this.
    - wvenable 1y ago
      No solution is perfect but we already have secure boot. It doesn't even have to mandate some pre-approved image; it just has to be an image that I approve and lock. This is already a well solved problem for corporate environments. You miss the point. I want all the power. Let me install and configure a Linux image of any sort and then lock it down. I am root. My kid is a mere user. There is nothing terribly difficult or even controversial about that.
      - hellojesus 1y ago
        Agreed. Plus think how great the infosec candidates of the future will be as kids all across the world constantly red team against their parents.
        wvenable 1y ago
        This is no lie: My son brute-forced the parental control pin on his iPhone. For over 6 months, he would just try random combinations while in bed at night. One night, I don't know when, he found the right pin. I'm not sure how long he had it bypassed before we figured it out.
Seattle3503 1y ago
> Parental Controls is the right answer but absolutely agree that parental controls suck. As a parent, I'd love just any level of better control. I don't even care if I have different controls per manufacturer as long they're pretty complete and capable. > If the EU can mandate USB-C, they can mandate all technologies include powerful and capable parental controls. > There is no need for age verification -- parents know how old their children are. Parents are providing children with the devices and often the means of connectivity as well. This is and has always been a parenting problem. If the government wants to assist parents, I'm all for that. But age verification is not the answer. We no longer live in the era of a single family computer. Parents don't know about all devices their children will use to access the internet, so filters aren't going to cut it. A good implementation of age verification would assist parents, as you suggest, while denying control to the government. IMO parents should always be able to bypass the block for their children. If the government wants to "block" Wikipedia, the parents should be able to give it back to their kid.
- wvenable 1y ago
  > We no longer live in the era of a single family computer. In that era, there were always other family's computers. > Parents don't know about all devices their children will use to access the internet That's why we need the parental controls! That's the entire purpose. All devices that all children have everywhere were given to them by an adult. If they have Internet access, some adult somewhere is paying for that service. We simply want more control over those things that is easier to manage. It's not at all complicated.
  - Seattle3503 1y ago
    Age verification is a parental control. Parents can always bypass it for their children.
    - wvenable 1y ago
      It's not parental control; it's governmental control. Yes, parents can bypass it for their children but that doesn't mean it's parental control. When you have to provide your own ID to access a site your parents are not involved.

gjsman-1000 1y ago

> mandate all technologies include powerful and capable parental controls That is, until Linux is also forced to come into compliance with said parental control standard, complete with all centralized reporting and remote restriction capabilities. > This is and has always been a parenting problem. What do governments do when everyone has the same parenting problem? Listen to industry idealists, like those who would call teenage smoking a “parenting problem,” or crack down?

wvenable 1y ago
> That is, until Linux is also forced to come into compliance with said parental control standard, complete with all centralized reporting and remote restriction capabilities. Linux is fine. Someone can build the ultimately perfect parental control software for Linux and I'll use it. The same cannot be said for Windows, Android, or iOS -- third party system cannot exist for those platforms that are sufficient unless they're made by Microsoft, Google, or Apple respectively. Perhaps we just have to mandate an open standard. In fact, I would prefer that. > What do governments do when everyone has the same parenting problem? The wrong thing. Always.
- crote 1y ago
  > Linux is fine. Someone can build the ultimately perfect parental control software for Linux and I'll use it. You can't build a perfectly secure system and still respect the user's freedom. The perfect parental control system is by definition also going to be the ultimate rootkit - or else you'd just boot your own kernel which perfectly fakes the parental controls. In such a world you wouldn't be allowed to build your own OS, only boot a pre-approved image. The Linux community is not exactly likely to participate in this.
  - wvenable 1y ago
    No solution is perfect but we already have secure boot. It doesn't even have to mandate some pre-approved image; it just has to be an image that I approve and lock. This is already a well solved problem for corporate environments. You miss the point. I want all the power. Let me install and configure a Linux image of any sort and then lock it down. I am root. My kid is a mere user. There is nothing terribly difficult or even controversial about that.
    - hellojesus 1y ago
      Agreed. Plus think how great the infosec candidates of the future will be as kids all across the world constantly red team against their parents.
      - wvenable 1y ago
        This is no lie: My son brute-forced the parental control pin on his iPhone. For over 6 months, he would just try random combinations while in bed at night. One night, I don't know when, he found the right pin. I'm not sure how long he had it bypassed before we figured it out.

Seattle3503 1y ago

> Parental Controls is the right answer but absolutely agree that parental controls suck. As a parent, I'd love just any level of better control. I don't even care if I have different controls per manufacturer as long they're pretty complete and capable. > If the EU can mandate USB-C, they can mandate all technologies include powerful and capable parental controls. > There is no need for age verification -- parents know how old their children are. Parents are providing children with the devices and often the means of connectivity as well. This is and has always been a parenting problem. If the government wants to assist parents, I'm all for that. But age verification is not the answer. We no longer live in the era of a single family computer. Parents don't know about all devices their children will use to access the internet, so filters aren't going to cut it. A good implementation of age verification would assist parents, as you suggest, while denying control to the government. IMO parents should always be able to bypass the block for their children. If the government wants to "block" Wikipedia, the parents should be able to give it back to their kid.

wvenable 1y ago
> We no longer live in the era of a single family computer. In that era, there were always other family's computers. > Parents don't know about all devices their children will use to access the internet That's why we need the parental controls! That's the entire purpose. All devices that all children have everywhere were given to them by an adult. If they have Internet access, some adult somewhere is paying for that service. We simply want more control over those things that is easier to manage. It's not at all complicated.
- Seattle3503 1y ago
  Age verification is a parental control. Parents can always bypass it for their children.
  - wvenable 1y ago
    It's not parental control; it's governmental control. Yes, parents can bypass it for their children but that doesn't mean it's parental control. When you have to provide your own ID to access a site your parents are not involved.