3 ms·

In the EU we have different liberties to the US. That doesn't necessarily make Europeans less free. For example, wlthe EU has free movement of goods, capital, s

by Stevvo 1y ago

In the EU we have different liberties to the US. That doesn't necessarily make Europeans less free. For example, wlthe EU has free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders. None of which are present in the USA. Does that make Americans less free than Europeans? Some would argue so, but I don't see it. The UK however, maybe. Brexit was a real dumb idea.

CalRobert 1y ago
Huh? The US has all of that. You can move freely between states.
- Stevvo 1y ago
  Internal movement doesn't count. Only a real hell-hole like North Korea will prevent you moving around in your own country.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    The EU and US are roughly equivalent in size. I’m not sure it’s fair to say that doesn’t count. It’s (nominally) a union of states after all
    - theptip 1y ago
      There is far more cultural diversity between the EU countries than states in the US - it’s not close.
      - CalRobert 1y ago
        Agreed, but in terms of moving around a similar land mass, an even bigger economy, integrated currency, etc the comparison seems reasonable. If anything the US has more freedom in that sense, at least on paper. I don’t need to register with the gemeente when I move interstate. (Though I’d likely need a new drivers licence) Also, for better or for worse it helps that almost everyone speaks English everywhere.
  - lowkey_ 1y ago
    The US economy is about 1.5 times larger than the entire EU. The US is over 2 times larger by land. Population is about a quarter smaller. Still, Massachusetts has more people than Denmark, New York has the same as Romania, California has more people than Poland. Our original founding documents cite "these united states", interestingly and very tellingly "these", not "the." States are their own entities, and you'd find many to have very different cultures and laws — probably the same level of variance you'd find in the EU.
    - FredPret 1y ago
      I agree with your points. It's ridiculous to suggest Americans don't have freedom of movement. The US economy is actually roughly double that of the EU. But European countries are much more different from one another than the States are. I think it's actually quite a challenge to doing business there - growing into another country means you have to appeal to a very different culture, deal with different laws, speak a different language. The US states have their differences but there's a reason they're part of the same nation.
PKop 1y ago
> free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders What in the world are you talking about? The US has all of this internally. If on the one narrow point you want to claim that EU has open-borders to the rest of the world, no you don't and that's not something that's good to have anyways. Both US and European citizens are fighting their own governments to decrease immigration as polling shows large opposition to current immigration levels for many years now. A big part of the crackdown on speech in the UK is to restrict criticism of immigration policy.
- Karawebnetwork 1y ago
  EU is not a single country. Most if not all countries allows free travel between their own regions, provinces or states. A better example would be Americans being able to travel freely to USMCA countries.
- atmosx 1y ago
  The European Union has, in practice, lacked genuine free movement of people across internal borders for some time (I went through complete and very aggressive border control entering France via airplane three years ago). Schengen arrangements have been curtailed in Germany[^1]. Part of the challenge is that Europeans appear out of touch with rapidly changing realities (I say this as a European). Additionally, some argue that the European Parliament is operating under an unofficial coup[^2]. The rearmament initiative is particularly concerning. Over the past three years, communities in Italy, Spain, Greece, and Germany have been devastated by flooding, wildfires, etc. Rather than prioritizing investment in resilient infrastructure, leaders are channeling resources into rearmament to confront Russia and China (or so they say - since they are acting as clowns anyway no one really pays attention). My concern is that these weapons may ultimately be used by Europeans against one another; It happened twice already. [^1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/temporary-border-controls-to-remain-until-eu-finds-solution-to-migration-german-chancellor/3631643 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/temporary-border-controls-to... [^2]: https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-europe-commission-brussels-power/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-europe-...
  - 1y ago

by Stevvo 1y ago

CalRobert 1y ago

Huh? The US has all of that. You can move freely between states.

Stevvo 1y ago
Internal movement doesn't count. Only a real hell-hole like North Korea will prevent you moving around in your own country.
- CalRobert 1y ago
  The EU and US are roughly equivalent in size. I’m not sure it’s fair to say that doesn’t count. It’s (nominally) a union of states after all
  - theptip 1y ago
    There is far more cultural diversity between the EU countries than states in the US - it’s not close.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      Agreed, but in terms of moving around a similar land mass, an even bigger economy, integrated currency, etc the comparison seems reasonable. If anything the US has more freedom in that sense, at least on paper. I don’t need to register with the gemeente when I move interstate. (Though I’d likely need a new drivers licence) Also, for better or for worse it helps that almost everyone speaks English everywhere.
- lowkey_ 1y ago
  The US economy is about 1.5 times larger than the entire EU. The US is over 2 times larger by land. Population is about a quarter smaller. Still, Massachusetts has more people than Denmark, New York has the same as Romania, California has more people than Poland. Our original founding documents cite "these united states", interestingly and very tellingly "these", not "the." States are their own entities, and you'd find many to have very different cultures and laws — probably the same level of variance you'd find in the EU.
  - FredPret 1y ago
    I agree with your points. It's ridiculous to suggest Americans don't have freedom of movement. The US economy is actually roughly double that of the EU. But European countries are much more different from one another than the States are. I think it's actually quite a challenge to doing business there - growing into another country means you have to appeal to a very different culture, deal with different laws, speak a different language. The US states have their differences but there's a reason they're part of the same nation.

PKop 1y ago

> free movement of goods, capital, services, and people across borders What in the world are you talking about? The US has all of this internally. If on the one narrow point you want to claim that EU has open-borders to the rest of the world, no you don't and that's not something that's good to have anyways. Both US and European citizens are fighting their own governments to decrease immigration as polling shows large opposition to current immigration levels for many years now. A big part of the crackdown on speech in the UK is to restrict criticism of immigration policy.

Karawebnetwork 1y ago
EU is not a single country. Most if not all countries allows free travel between their own regions, provinces or states. A better example would be Americans being able to travel freely to USMCA countries.
atmosx 1y ago
The European Union has, in practice, lacked genuine free movement of people across internal borders for some time (I went through complete and very aggressive border control entering France via airplane three years ago). Schengen arrangements have been curtailed in Germany[^1]. Part of the challenge is that Europeans appear out of touch with rapidly changing realities (I say this as a European). Additionally, some argue that the European Parliament is operating under an unofficial coup[^2]. The rearmament initiative is particularly concerning. Over the past three years, communities in Italy, Spain, Greece, and Germany have been devastated by flooding, wildfires, etc. Rather than prioritizing investment in resilient infrastructure, leaders are channeling resources into rearmament to confront Russia and China (or so they say - since they are acting as clowns anyway no one really pays attention). My concern is that these weapons may ultimately be used by Europeans against one another; It happened twice already. [^1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/temporary-border-controls-to-remain-until-eu-finds-solution-to-migration-german-chancellor/3631643 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/temporary-border-controls-to... [^2]: https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-europe-commission-brussels-power/ https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-europe-...
- 1y ago