2 ms·

Blame Oracle. If they had been more forward looking and a bit less greedy, Java vLatest would be the default language on Android.

pjmlp 1y ago
Not at all, I stand by Oracle on their lawsuit. Android is Google's J++, which Sun sued and won. Kotlin is Google's C#. Plus everyone keeps forgetting Kotlin is a JVM based language, Android Studio and Gradle are implemented in JVM languages, JVM are implemented in a mix of C, C++ and Java (zero Kotlin), Android still uses Java, only that Google only takes out of OpenJDK what they feel like, and currentl that is Java 17 LTS, most of the work on OpenJDK was done by Oracle employees.
- StopDisinfo910 1y ago
  > Not at all, I stand by Oracle on their lawsuit. I think it will be very hard for us to find anything in common to agree on then. Anyway, it’s pretty clear Google is pushing Kotlin because they don’t want to have anything to do with Oracle which has not been cleared by the verdict of their last trial. The situation has nothing to do with anything technical. Blaming them for pushing Kotlin when the alternative you offer is them using a language they have already been sued for their use of seems extremely misguided to me.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    We don't have to agree in anything, I wasn't asking for any agreement to start with. I call them dishonest by comparing outdated Java 7 subset with Kotlin, when back in 2017 the latest version was Java 9, and in 2025 it is Java 24, and yet the documentation keeps using Java 8 for most examples on Java versus Kotlin. How come Google doesn't want to have anything with Oracle, when it is impossible to build an Android distribution without a JVM, again people like yourself keep forgeting OpenJDK is mostly a product from Oracle employees (about 80%) with remaing efforts distributed across Red-Hat(IBM), IBM, Azul, Microsoft and JetBrains (I wonder what those do on Android), Kotlin doesn't build for Android without a JVM implementation, Gradle requires a JVM implementation, Android Studio requires a JVM implementation, Maven Central has JVM libraries,.... If Google doesn't want anything to do with Oracle why aren't they using Dart, created by themselves, instead of a language that is fully dependent on Oracle's kigdom for its own very existence?
    - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
      > How come Google doesn't want to have anything with Oracle They clearly don’t want to add anything which couldn’t be reasonably covered by the result of the previous trial. The list you give was all already there then. Moving to a more recent version of Java wouldn’t be. > OpenJDK is mostly a product from Oracle employees (about 80%) Sun employees, not Oracle employees. Using Sun technology was fine, using Oracle technology is something else entirely.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        I advise you to educate yourself who works and owns OpenJDK copyrights. Can start here, https://dev.java/contribute/openjdk/ https://dev.java/contribute/openjdk/ "Once you have contributed several changes (usually two) you can become an Author. An author has the right to create patches but cannot push them. To push a patch, you need a Sponsor. Gaining a sponsorship is usually achieved through the discussions you had on the mailing lists. In order to become an Author, you also need to sign the Oracle Contribution Agreement (OCA)." The go into https://openjdk.org/bylaws https://openjdk.org/bylaws "The OpenJDK Lead is an OpenJDK Member, appointed by Oracle, who directs the major efforts of the Community, which are new implementations of the Java SE Platform known as JDK Release Projects." And this nice contribution overview from Java 22, https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/the-arrival-of-java-22 https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/the-arrival-of-java-22 "Of the 26,447 JIRA issues marked as fixed in Java 11 through Java 22 at the time of their GA, 18,842 were completed by Oracle employees while 7,605 were contributed by individual developers and developers working for other organizations. Going through the issues and collating the organization data from assignees results in the following chart of organizations sponsoring the development of contributions in Java:" To spare you the math, 77% were done by Oracle employees. Now please show us how Kotlin compiles for Android without using Java. Doesn't look like Google got rid of Oracle to me, more like they didn't even considered Dart, nor Go could stand a chance against the Java ecosystem among Android developers.
        StopDisinfo910 1y ago
        You wrote than 80% of OpenJDK was written by Oracle employees. That’s patently untrue. Most of OpenJDK was written by Sun employees before Oracle bought Sun. Your link doesn’t change any of that nor your clearly condescending comment before. You are perfectly aware of the fact by the way and you know exactly what I meant so I don’t really understand the game you are playing. Oracle can claim Sun contribution as their own as much as they want. It doesn’t change the fact that you would have to be insane to touch anything they do now that it’s Oracle property.

pjmlp 1y ago

Not at all, I stand by Oracle on their lawsuit. Android is Google's J++, which Sun sued and won. Kotlin is Google's C#. Plus everyone keeps forgetting Kotlin is a JVM based language, Android Studio and Gradle are implemented in JVM languages, JVM are implemented in a mix of C, C++ and Java (zero Kotlin), Android still uses Java, only that Google only takes out of OpenJDK what they feel like, and currentl that is Java 17 LTS, most of the work on OpenJDK was done by Oracle employees.

StopDisinfo910 1y ago
> Not at all, I stand by Oracle on their lawsuit. I think it will be very hard for us to find anything in common to agree on then. Anyway, it’s pretty clear Google is pushing Kotlin because they don’t want to have anything to do with Oracle which has not been cleared by the verdict of their last trial. The situation has nothing to do with anything technical. Blaming them for pushing Kotlin when the alternative you offer is them using a language they have already been sued for their use of seems extremely misguided to me.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  We don't have to agree in anything, I wasn't asking for any agreement to start with. I call them dishonest by comparing outdated Java 7 subset with Kotlin, when back in 2017 the latest version was Java 9, and in 2025 it is Java 24, and yet the documentation keeps using Java 8 for most examples on Java versus Kotlin. How come Google doesn't want to have anything with Oracle, when it is impossible to build an Android distribution without a JVM, again people like yourself keep forgeting OpenJDK is mostly a product from Oracle employees (about 80%) with remaing efforts distributed across Red-Hat(IBM), IBM, Azul, Microsoft and JetBrains (I wonder what those do on Android), Kotlin doesn't build for Android without a JVM implementation, Gradle requires a JVM implementation, Android Studio requires a JVM implementation, Maven Central has JVM libraries,.... If Google doesn't want anything to do with Oracle why aren't they using Dart, created by themselves, instead of a language that is fully dependent on Oracle's kigdom for its own very existence?
  - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
    > How come Google doesn't want to have anything with Oracle They clearly don’t want to add anything which couldn’t be reasonably covered by the result of the previous trial. The list you give was all already there then. Moving to a more recent version of Java wouldn’t be. > OpenJDK is mostly a product from Oracle employees (about 80%) Sun employees, not Oracle employees. Using Sun technology was fine, using Oracle technology is something else entirely.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      I advise you to educate yourself who works and owns OpenJDK copyrights. Can start here, https://dev.java/contribute/openjdk/ https://dev.java/contribute/openjdk/ "Once you have contributed several changes (usually two) you can become an Author. An author has the right to create patches but cannot push them. To push a patch, you need a Sponsor. Gaining a sponsorship is usually achieved through the discussions you had on the mailing lists. In order to become an Author, you also need to sign the Oracle Contribution Agreement (OCA)." The go into https://openjdk.org/bylaws https://openjdk.org/bylaws "The OpenJDK Lead is an OpenJDK Member, appointed by Oracle, who directs the major efforts of the Community, which are new implementations of the Java SE Platform known as JDK Release Projects." And this nice contribution overview from Java 22, https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/the-arrival-of-java-22 https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/the-arrival-of-java-22 "Of the 26,447 JIRA issues marked as fixed in Java 11 through Java 22 at the time of their GA, 18,842 were completed by Oracle employees while 7,605 were contributed by individual developers and developers working for other organizations. Going through the issues and collating the organization data from assignees results in the following chart of organizations sponsoring the development of contributions in Java:" To spare you the math, 77% were done by Oracle employees. Now please show us how Kotlin compiles for Android without using Java. Doesn't look like Google got rid of Oracle to me, more like they didn't even considered Dart, nor Go could stand a chance against the Java ecosystem among Android developers.
      - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
        You wrote than 80% of OpenJDK was written by Oracle employees. That’s patently untrue. Most of OpenJDK was written by Sun employees before Oracle bought Sun. Your link doesn’t change any of that nor your clearly condescending comment before. You are perfectly aware of the fact by the way and you know exactly what I meant so I don’t really understand the game you are playing. Oracle can claim Sun contribution as their own as much as they want. It doesn’t change the fact that you would have to be insane to touch anything they do now that it’s Oracle property.