4 ms·

> A lot of shops, restaurants, and other establishments have stopped accepting cash, even if it's illegal to do so (legal tender etc). No. This is a misunderst

> A lot of shops, restaurants, and other establishments have stopped accepting cash, even if it's illegal to do so (legal tender etc). No. This is a misunderstanding of legal tender. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm "There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise." Legal tender only applies to debts. When you go to buy a t-shirt at Target or a burger at McDonalds, you don't owe a debt, and they aren't a creditor.

SJC_Hacker 1y ago
> egal tender only applies to debts. I used to think that was true, but try paying parking fines, etc. with pennies. Legal tender has never been challenged in court to my knowledge
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > Legal tender has never been challenged in court to my knowledge It was challenged and upheld, both as against debts before the the legal tender acts were passed and those after, by the Supreme Court in Knox v. Lee (1871).
  - SJC_Hacker 1y ago
    Yet the US government can refuse payments in cash https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21194/cash-payment-method-will-no-longer-be-accepted https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21...
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      Yes. Because a patent filing fee is not a debt. (And because government can exempt itself from virtually anything not forbidden by the Constitution. This is why cops can break down your door, but I can't.)
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  Parking fines aren't debts, and thus, legal tender doesn't apply. https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/seventh-circuit/city-sanctioned-fines-not-debts-under-fdcpa/ https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/seventh-circuit/city-sanc... > The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled this week that city-levied fines are not debts under the FDCPA... District courts, for what it's worth, uniformly agree that a fine does not stem from a consensual transaction, and thus is not a debt under the FDCPA.
  - SJC_Hacker 1y ago
    > a fine does not stem from a consensual transaction, and thus is not a debt under the FDCPA. Which transactions with the government is "consensual" where it doesn't demand payment up front (like a contractor)? This goes back to my idea that while legal tender is a nice idea, in practice it means nothing
- pbhjpbhj 1y ago
  In the UK the definition of legal tender includes a limit on the use of small denominations.
Tor3 1y ago
As I wrote elsewhere: You're seeing this from inside the USA. USA is not the world. What's translated as "Legal tender" when wanting to write in English is just the closest term. That doesn't mean that your local definition of legal tender then applies. Cash, to be specific, must be accepted as payment (with certain limited) exceptions, in my country. And still some places will refuse it. They even accept paying fines now and then because of it.

SJC_Hacker 1y ago

> egal tender only applies to debts. I used to think that was true, but try paying parking fines, etc. with pennies. Legal tender has never been challenged in court to my knowledge

dragonwriter 1y ago
> Legal tender has never been challenged in court to my knowledge It was challenged and upheld, both as against debts before the the legal tender acts were passed and those after, by the Supreme Court in Knox v. Lee (1871).
- SJC_Hacker 1y ago
  Yet the US government can refuse payments in cash https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21194/cash-payment-method-will-no-longer-be-accepted https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/10/03/2017-21...
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    Yes. Because a patent filing fee is not a debt. (And because government can exempt itself from virtually anything not forbidden by the Constitution. This is why cops can break down your door, but I can't.)
ceejayoz 1y ago
Parking fines aren't debts, and thus, legal tender doesn't apply. https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/seventh-circuit/city-sanctioned-fines-not-debts-under-fdcpa/ https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/seventh-circuit/city-sanc... > The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled this week that city-levied fines are not debts under the FDCPA... District courts, for what it's worth, uniformly agree that a fine does not stem from a consensual transaction, and thus is not a debt under the FDCPA.
- SJC_Hacker 1y ago
  > a fine does not stem from a consensual transaction, and thus is not a debt under the FDCPA. Which transactions with the government is "consensual" where it doesn't demand payment up front (like a contractor)? This goes back to my idea that while legal tender is a nice idea, in practice it means nothing
pbhjpbhj 1y ago
In the UK the definition of legal tender includes a limit on the use of small denominations.

Tor3 1y ago

As I wrote elsewhere: You're seeing this from inside the USA. USA is not the world. What's translated as "Legal tender" when wanting to write in English is just the closest term. That doesn't mean that your local definition of legal tender then applies. Cash, to be specific, must be accepted as payment (with certain limited) exceptions, in my country. And still some places will refuse it. They even accept paying fines now and then because of it.