6 ms·

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allowed to wall in their data with no API access. Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all. They are the definition of regulatory capture.

sieabahlpark 1y ago
[dead]
politician 1y ago
> Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all. It's not really the banks' fault. They're all stuck leasing expensive information systems from entrenched third-party technology shops. They don't have software development dollars and they are extremely risk averse, to a paranoid degree. Thank the regulatory environment for that (state and federal). Companies like Moov.io are trying to crack open this space and provide the levels of integration we see in other industries. But it's really hard and slow.
- neoecos 1y ago
  That's why Im really bullish on Column, a tech company with banking license
  - cedws 1y ago
    Isn’t that basically every neobank?
    - mousetree 1y ago
      They don’t have banking licenses, at least not in the US
- ameliaquining 1y ago
  This is only true of small banks, not large ones.
- marcus_holmes 1y ago
  This is not the problem. If it was the problem then banks in (most of) the rest of the world would also be stuck 50 years in the past. They're not.
  - astrange 1y ago
    Other countries' banks don't have the US regulatory environment.
    - marcus_holmes 1y ago
      Yes, they do. The UK and Australia (examples I know) have equally stringent regulatory environments as the USA.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
matheusmoreira 1y ago
I tried to do something similar not too long ago. At the time I was using ledger for personal accounting. Ledger is amazing and incredibly flexible. Writing the journals with detailed financial data is way too time consuming though. I tried to write software to pull this data from the banks. Got in touch with the managers at my bank and everything, they even referred me to their devs. I just needed read only access to my own bank account. I eventually discovered I needed permission from the goddamn central bank to do this. I also tried to integrate with my government's electronic consumer receipt systems. The idea was I'd scan the receipt with my phone or laptop camera and it'd download the data and automatically generate a detailed ledger journal entry with individual postings and metadata for every product I purchased. This was going to save me so much time it's not even funny. I discovered I had to create a corporation to even ask the government for API access to my own data.
- disgruntledphd2 1y ago
  If you're in the EU it might be worth checking out if TrueLayer support your bank.
- 11mariom 1y ago
  ^ this. "Open Banking" is just… not open at all. Misleading name. Had similar idea - just to pull my own data, tag transactions, etc etc, and have a nice stats. Nope, it is so "open" that it's just impossible to pass for single-user idea. "Open Banking" just gives me opportunity to show in my Bank A part of data from Bank B.
toenail 1y ago
I feel you, that’s why I’m my own bank.
- tossandthrow 1y ago
  What does it mean that you are your won bank? Do you treat your matrass like a bank? Maybe with the pidgin carrier protocol to do money transfers?
  - toenail 1y ago
    I use a decentralized global ledger and can make instantaneous peer to peer payments to anyone on the planet. I'm not just my own bank, I participate in a system that replaces central banks and provides a money that isn't constantly devalued. It's called bitcoin.
    - tossandthrow 1y ago
      Bitcoin can not yet be deemed currency by commonly understood principles for a currency: You can not pay your taxes, it is not a store of value (it is volatile), and it can not generally be used to transact (Good luck getting trader joe accepting bit coins). So that would not really constitute a bank that stores currency. (I have nothing on crypto currencies, btw., and if it gives a feeling of agency to use them I applaud it)
      - Kenji 1y ago
        Bitcoin is a better store of value than USD. Change my mind.
        ranger207 1y ago
        Bitcoin's high volatility means that it's impossible to predict exactly how much value one Bitcoin will have tomorrow, next month, next year, or next decade. USD has comparatively low volatility. It's possible, but very unlikely, for USD to go to zero tomorrow, and while the uncertainty around exactly how likely USD is to collapse increases as you look further towards the future, most people would consider it less likely for USD to collapse than Bitcoin. Since markets are made up of "most people", most people are more willing to accept USD to exchange value than they are Bitcoin. Therefore, USD is a better store of value than Bitcoin
elric 1y ago
> allowed to wall in their data with no API access There's PSD2 in the EU (or Eurozone? Not sure actually). Basically forces banks to open common APIs to encourage interopability and competition. However, it's not aimed at users but rather at companies in fintech building applications. Some banks (Bunq comes to mind) offer APIs to their customers for direct use, but most don't. The reason is obviously security. People still fall for phishing, people still give fake bank staff their access codes on the phone. Giving normal users a way to have API access to their bank account would be disastrous for many of those users. Now, it would be nice if things like PSD2 were a little more accessible and transparent. Currently you need permission from an institution like The National Bank to gain access. It's expensive and bureaucratic.
- nicbou 1y ago
  I was really disappointed by that. I still can't easily retrieve a list of my transactions.
  - moi2388 1y ago
    I am very happy with that, because it means the PSD2 providers have their security tested before they are accepted.
    - nicbou 1y ago
      Yes, PSD2 is overall an excellent thing. I used to be able to scrape my data with just a username and a password. This is a massive improvement.
- eitau_1 1y ago
  I'd be more than happy with read-only access. Still potentially bad for 'normal users' but not disastrous.
- dahcryn 1y ago
  It's a great idea, but it's been killed off by the small print that was lobbied into the requirements Basically, banks force apps or users to require you fully revalidate user consent every 90 days. And it's quite an annoying process. That means any app or integration you want to build, requires 10 minutes of your time every 90 days or they stop working. It's killed many Fintech's. It all works on paper, but is drafted into law by politicians who have no clue about technical challenges and user experience. So in the end, it works exactly as designed by the banks: it doesn't
Jommi 1y ago
just move everything to a public chain and it becomes easy
ksec 1y ago
I am thinking if I am in the minorities or such practice isn't common across the world where I have many credit cards and bank accounts. I am willing to pay $5 dollars a month just for such services. A single places where it shows All my current accounts balance, auto pay all credit cards bills on payment date. Showing all my current credit card spendings this month, remaining ( next invoice ) and where they belongs to, mostly dinning. I would have thought Apple Pay and Mobile Payment would pave the way for better Credit Card services, but right now most of them are glibbest on the statement. I dont remember which restaurant it is nor does it correctly show. I basically want a central place for all my finance. Including discount on credit cards, savings, interest rate loan etc. And I am willing to pay a small fees for it.

sieabahlpark 1y ago

[dead]

politician 1y ago

> Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all. It's not really the banks' fault. They're all stuck leasing expensive information systems from entrenched third-party technology shops. They don't have software development dollars and they are extremely risk averse, to a paranoid degree. Thank the regulatory environment for that (state and federal). Companies like Moov.io are trying to crack open this space and provide the levels of integration we see in other industries. But it's really hard and slow.

neoecos 1y ago
That's why Im really bullish on Column, a tech company with banking license
- cedws 1y ago
  Isn’t that basically every neobank?
  - mousetree 1y ago
    They don’t have banking licenses, at least not in the US
ameliaquining 1y ago
This is only true of small banks, not large ones.
marcus_holmes 1y ago
This is not the problem. If it was the problem then banks in (most of) the rest of the world would also be stuck 50 years in the past. They're not.
- astrange 1y ago
  Other countries' banks don't have the US regulatory environment.
  - marcus_holmes 1y ago
    Yes, they do. The UK and Australia (examples I know) have equally stringent regulatory environments as the USA.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

matheusmoreira 1y ago

I tried to do something similar not too long ago. At the time I was using ledger for personal accounting. Ledger is amazing and incredibly flexible. Writing the journals with detailed financial data is way too time consuming though. I tried to write software to pull this data from the banks. Got in touch with the managers at my bank and everything, they even referred me to their devs. I just needed read only access to my own bank account. I eventually discovered I needed permission from the goddamn central bank to do this. I also tried to integrate with my government's electronic consumer receipt systems. The idea was I'd scan the receipt with my phone or laptop camera and it'd download the data and automatically generate a detailed ledger journal entry with individual postings and metadata for every product I purchased. This was going to save me so much time it's not even funny. I discovered I had to create a corporation to even ask the government for API access to my own data.

disgruntledphd2 1y ago
If you're in the EU it might be worth checking out if TrueLayer support your bank.
11mariom 1y ago
^ this. "Open Banking" is just… not open at all. Misleading name. Had similar idea - just to pull my own data, tag transactions, etc etc, and have a nice stats. Nope, it is so "open" that it's just impossible to pass for single-user idea. "Open Banking" just gives me opportunity to show in my Bank A part of data from Bank B.

toenail 1y ago

I feel you, that’s why I’m my own bank.

tossandthrow 1y ago
What does it mean that you are your won bank? Do you treat your matrass like a bank? Maybe with the pidgin carrier protocol to do money transfers?
- toenail 1y ago
  I use a decentralized global ledger and can make instantaneous peer to peer payments to anyone on the planet. I'm not just my own bank, I participate in a system that replaces central banks and provides a money that isn't constantly devalued. It's called bitcoin.
  - tossandthrow 1y ago
    Bitcoin can not yet be deemed currency by commonly understood principles for a currency: You can not pay your taxes, it is not a store of value (it is volatile), and it can not generally be used to transact (Good luck getting trader joe accepting bit coins). So that would not really constitute a bank that stores currency. (I have nothing on crypto currencies, btw., and if it gives a feeling of agency to use them I applaud it)
    - Kenji 1y ago
      Bitcoin is a better store of value than USD. Change my mind.
      - ranger207 1y ago
        Bitcoin's high volatility means that it's impossible to predict exactly how much value one Bitcoin will have tomorrow, next month, next year, or next decade. USD has comparatively low volatility. It's possible, but very unlikely, for USD to go to zero tomorrow, and while the uncertainty around exactly how likely USD is to collapse increases as you look further towards the future, most people would consider it less likely for USD to collapse than Bitcoin. Since markets are made up of "most people", most people are more willing to accept USD to exchange value than they are Bitcoin. Therefore, USD is a better store of value than Bitcoin

elric 1y ago

> allowed to wall in their data with no API access There's PSD2 in the EU (or Eurozone? Not sure actually). Basically forces banks to open common APIs to encourage interopability and competition. However, it's not aimed at users but rather at companies in fintech building applications. Some banks (Bunq comes to mind) offer APIs to their customers for direct use, but most don't. The reason is obviously security. People still fall for phishing, people still give fake bank staff their access codes on the phone. Giving normal users a way to have API access to their bank account would be disastrous for many of those users. Now, it would be nice if things like PSD2 were a little more accessible and transparent. Currently you need permission from an institution like The National Bank to gain access. It's expensive and bureaucratic.

nicbou 1y ago
I was really disappointed by that. I still can't easily retrieve a list of my transactions.
- moi2388 1y ago
  I am very happy with that, because it means the PSD2 providers have their security tested before they are accepted.
  - nicbou 1y ago
    Yes, PSD2 is overall an excellent thing. I used to be able to scrape my data with just a username and a password. This is a massive improvement.
eitau_1 1y ago
I'd be more than happy with read-only access. Still potentially bad for 'normal users' but not disastrous.
dahcryn 1y ago
It's a great idea, but it's been killed off by the small print that was lobbied into the requirements Basically, banks force apps or users to require you fully revalidate user consent every 90 days. And it's quite an annoying process. That means any app or integration you want to build, requires 10 minutes of your time every 90 days or they stop working. It's killed many Fintech's. It all works on paper, but is drafted into law by politicians who have no clue about technical challenges and user experience. So in the end, it works exactly as designed by the banks: it doesn't

Jommi 1y ago

just move everything to a public chain and it becomes easy

ksec 1y ago

I am thinking if I am in the minorities or such practice isn't common across the world where I have many credit cards and bank accounts. I am willing to pay $5 dollars a month just for such services. A single places where it shows All my current accounts balance, auto pay all credit cards bills on payment date. Showing all my current credit card spendings this month, remaining ( next invoice ) and where they belongs to, mostly dinning. I would have thought Apple Pay and Mobile Payment would pave the way for better Credit Card services, but right now most of them are glibbest on the statement. I dont remember which restaurant it is nor does it correctly show. I basically want a central place for all my finance. Including discount on credit cards, savings, interest rate loan etc. And I am willing to pay a small fees for it.