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HN anathema: crypto and blockchain — can and does trivially solve the issues Patrick writes about. You can easily make sure the account has enough money, withou

by EGreg 1y ago

HN anathema: crypto and blockchain — can and does trivially solve the issues Patrick writes about. You can easily make sure the account has enough money, without knowing whose account it is. Crypto is “buyer beware”. The traditional fintech system is “seller beware”. But crypto is programmable and in theory you could easily make use of arbitration, resolution of disputes, and periodic payouts etc. All without being forced into the bundle of services you don’t control, that banks saddle you with.

ranger207 1y ago
Crypto and blockchain by itself does not solve any of these problems. It's merely a payments system that happens to be on a computer natively. There's nothing technical preventing banks from getting together and making Open Banking a well-supported thing like they're supposed to be doing; it's all just code and contracts in the end. It's not that they can't, it's that they won't, and they won't for business and political reasons. Crypto is subject to the same pressures but doesn't have the same regulations to constrain their actions. Crypto's better ability to eg do international payments is not because of any technical reason but simply because they don't have the same regulations and inertia of the traditional banking system. While the traditional banking system has problems with its regulations making things too hard to do, many people prefer it to the easier to screw up wild west of crypto payments. Lots of people like the FDIC making sure their savings aren't wiped out if the bank lies on its balance sheet, or the ability to claw back money transfers if someone breaks into their account. Crypto could certainly provide those services and backstops, but they haven't yet, and based on the prevailing attitude amongst the major participants, it's unlikely they will anytime soon. The only real difference between crypto and banks as a payments system is whether or not you want to start from scratch and build up, or start with the existing morass and tear down. The latter is the safer option which many people prefer when it concerns their money
- toenail 1y ago
  The idea that I’d need anybody’s permission or a regulation to allow me to give my money to somebody else is the problem.
  - zihotki 1y ago
    You still can - make a wire transfer or give them cash. Or what is your actual problem?
    - toenail 1y ago
      My actual problem is that the central bank devalues the money I earned. I'm glad to hear that the financial system works for you, and that you have zero problems making transactions to anybody on the planet. That's not true for a lot of people.
      - astrange 1y ago
        The second law of thermodynamics devalues the money you earned. There's no way you can have $10 that always and forever buys the same things $10 currently does. Central banks keep its value higher than the alternative, as anyone who doesn't have oppositional defiance disorder would notice from the fact that we haven't had a Great Depression lately. Because it really gets devalued if there's an economic collapse and all the businesses you trade with cease to exist.
        toenail 1y ago
        Have you ever heard of gold? That didn't continuously lose value. I'm sorry to hear you believe the nonsense modern economists, bankers and politicians tell you.
        astrange 1y ago
        What is "value" here? If you value being able to purchase a specific good X, and they stop making it, then you now don't have currency capable of buying it. Doesn't matter what kind of currency it is. If you're using value in dollar value, that asset has the price behavior it does because we live in a stable economy with central banks, 2% inflation targeting and so on. You haven't seen the alternative because you'd be on the street. What you want is TIPS bonds.
  - 1y ago
astrange 1y ago
You can't be sure of anything just because a crypto wallet appears to have a number in it, because the legal system exists, and judges don't care what you think a number means if they think something different. Mainly this comes up during bankruptcy, but they can also just order you to return stolen funds you've received even if you would prefer not to do that.
ryaniscool 1y ago
Anytime I've tried to buy something with crypto, the fees have been an order of magnitude higher than interchange (credit card) fees. And unlike credit cards, the cost is put on me not the merchant.
- afroboy 1y ago
  There one Blockchain is used for memes, but it's actually very efficient one and the fees are very low. Where i live we use to move USDC between accounts very easily.

by EGreg 1y ago

ranger207 1y ago

Crypto and blockchain by itself does not solve any of these problems. It's merely a payments system that happens to be on a computer natively. There's nothing technical preventing banks from getting together and making Open Banking a well-supported thing like they're supposed to be doing; it's all just code and contracts in the end. It's not that they can't, it's that they won't, and they won't for business and political reasons. Crypto is subject to the same pressures but doesn't have the same regulations to constrain their actions. Crypto's better ability to eg do international payments is not because of any technical reason but simply because they don't have the same regulations and inertia of the traditional banking system. While the traditional banking system has problems with its regulations making things too hard to do, many people prefer it to the easier to screw up wild west of crypto payments. Lots of people like the FDIC making sure their savings aren't wiped out if the bank lies on its balance sheet, or the ability to claw back money transfers if someone breaks into their account. Crypto could certainly provide those services and backstops, but they haven't yet, and based on the prevailing attitude amongst the major participants, it's unlikely they will anytime soon. The only real difference between crypto and banks as a payments system is whether or not you want to start from scratch and build up, or start with the existing morass and tear down. The latter is the safer option which many people prefer when it concerns their money

toenail 1y ago
The idea that I’d need anybody’s permission or a regulation to allow me to give my money to somebody else is the problem.
- zihotki 1y ago
  You still can - make a wire transfer or give them cash. Or what is your actual problem?
  - toenail 1y ago
    My actual problem is that the central bank devalues the money I earned. I'm glad to hear that the financial system works for you, and that you have zero problems making transactions to anybody on the planet. That's not true for a lot of people.
    - astrange 1y ago
      The second law of thermodynamics devalues the money you earned. There's no way you can have $10 that always and forever buys the same things $10 currently does. Central banks keep its value higher than the alternative, as anyone who doesn't have oppositional defiance disorder would notice from the fact that we haven't had a Great Depression lately. Because it really gets devalued if there's an economic collapse and all the businesses you trade with cease to exist.
      - toenail 1y ago
        Have you ever heard of gold? That didn't continuously lose value. I'm sorry to hear you believe the nonsense modern economists, bankers and politicians tell you.
        astrange 1y ago
        What is "value" here? If you value being able to purchase a specific good X, and they stop making it, then you now don't have currency capable of buying it. Doesn't matter what kind of currency it is. If you're using value in dollar value, that asset has the price behavior it does because we live in a stable economy with central banks, 2% inflation targeting and so on. You haven't seen the alternative because you'd be on the street. What you want is TIPS bonds.
- 1y ago

astrange 1y ago

You can't be sure of anything just because a crypto wallet appears to have a number in it, because the legal system exists, and judges don't care what you think a number means if they think something different. Mainly this comes up during bankruptcy, but they can also just order you to return stolen funds you've received even if you would prefer not to do that.

ryaniscool 1y ago

Anytime I've tried to buy something with crypto, the fees have been an order of magnitude higher than interchange (credit card) fees. And unlike credit cards, the cost is put on me not the merchant.

afroboy 1y ago
There one Blockchain is used for memes, but it's actually very efficient one and the fees are very low. Where i live we use to move USDC between accounts very easily.