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> The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. they always had been or at least tried, for decades by now, the

> The UK is quickly deploying surveillance state technology that people once decried China for. they always had been or at least tried, for decades by now, the only thing which had been holding them back was the EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc." > Has society really become this dangerous that we must deploy these things? no, and it also has a long track record of not only marginally improving your crime statistics. And especially stuff like facial recognition vans are most times not used to protect citizens but to create lists for who attended demos and similar. Which is most useful for suppressing/harassing your citizens instead of protecting them.

JFingleton 1y ago
> EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc." And yet they are still pushing [0] [0] https://edri.org/our-work/despite-warning-from-lawyers-eu-governments-push-for-mass-surveillance-of-our-digital-private-lives/ https://edri.org/our-work/despite-warning-from-lawyers-eu-go...
- fao_ 1y ago
  It's almost like huge organizations built off the backs of many different parties working in tandem, will at times have contradictory aims.
  - zosima 1y ago
    In that case it would be nice to see any effort from EU against government surveillance. Sure GDPR and what not, but they're full of loopholes for allowing government to do what private parties are not.
    - ajsnigrutin 1y ago
      EU is trying to implemement chat control... again. That's their effort. https://stopchatcontrol.eu/ https://stopchatcontrol.eu/ It would be nice if we removed the security guards for politicans, and if they're not doing bad stuff, they have nothing to fear.
    - petre 1y ago
      Certain EU citizens remeber the Stasi & friends. That's why Chat Control should be associated with the Stasi by anyone opposing it.
    - permo-w 1y ago
      the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc. HN has terrible EU Derangement Syndrome: any time its mentioned here, suddenly there are tens of people lining up to blindly shit on it, usually for laws it hasn't actually passed, or literal anti-truths like your comment, despite the fact that it is consistently passing the best tech-focused laws of any major governmental body anywhere, and the proposed laws that everyone repeatedly loses their minds over have never once actually come to pass. even when they released the DMA and DSA, possibly the two most HN-friendly pieces of legislation of all time, half the comments were attempts at criticism, basically seemingly because people here just love to hate the EU, sans facts
      - zosima 1y ago
        > the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc. This is simply wrong: They have banned _live_ facial recognition - and with exemptions such as e.g. for terrorism and other severe crimes, which is becoming quite broad. They are allowing facial recognition when done after-the-fact for law enforcement. Probably also for petty crimes.
        permo-w 1y ago
        https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240308IPR19015/artificial-intelligence-act-meps-adopt-landmark-law https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240308IP... if you're going to change the central focus of your comment, do it in a reply not an edit
        zosima 1y ago
        I edited mine after you edited yours. Here is an article about live/post facial recognition: https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ai-facial-recognition-tech-act-late-tweaks-attack-civil-rights-key-lawmaker-hahn-warns/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ai-facial-recognition-tec...
        1y ago
tehjoker 1y ago
[flagged]
- dingnuts 1y ago
  It's a war, not a genocide. Gaza is under seige. Hamas should unconditionally surrender but they prefer to put their children in harm's way than to surrender. Tell me, if this is a genocide, what has happened to all the Jews in Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan since 1950? No, defense of Israel is the last stand of a people that has been slowly eradicated from their indigenous region for the last 80+ years. Hamas simply needs to surrender in this round of the war they started. But they won't unless they control Jerusalem.
  - nullstyle 1y ago
    “Tell me, if this is a genocide, what has happened to all the Jews in Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan since 1950?” Wtf does some history lesson you want to be coy about have to do with innocent civilians starving, every day, more and more, in the present moment?
  - LAC-Tech 1y ago
    Israel needs to open it's borders and embrace multi-culturalism.
    - zdragnar 1y ago
      "Death to Israel" is not a culture. The surrounding countries don't care about Palestinians or Israelis.
      - pydry 1y ago
        The surrounding countries are not massacring civilians for the purpose of creating a racially pure ethnostate.
        deleted 1y ago
_the_inflator 1y ago
No, it is more like UK is now the new surveillance supermarket for EU: implementing what “works” for UK - trusted and applied technology. And also the excuse included: “not China”, but even this doesn’t come as cause for concern anymore. Have a look at the latest US “country report on human rights practices 2025”. Germany is flagged as unsafe so to say. It is as you can only hope that the NSA has some way to spy on your data when EU gets more on more anti privacy and data protection means EU only storage is mandatory. Dire times. Double standards are in full effect.
- Yokolos 1y ago
  Anything coming out of a US government institution today is not trustworthy. Not sure why you'd reference the 2025 report. It's a laugh and a half that the country deploying the national guard in their own capital and putting the capital's police under federal government control is saying Germany is unsafe. The country that's rounding up immigrants and even US citizens to be deported to random countries. Please. Stop falling for the right-wing propaganda.
  - falleng0d 1y ago
    Both things can be true at the same time, is not laughable at all. Germany can be unsafe and US too to the extent they need national guard to get back control
    - Xss3 1y ago
      How can geemany be considered unsafe to the average american? The homicide and violent crime rate in the US is 10x higher than germany, even in the quiet and posh parts of the USA the murder rate is insanely high compared to anywhere in germany.
      - nradov 1y ago
        Nonsense. The murder rate in most of the USA is similar to Germany. My small city has literally zero murders most years. The vast majority of violent crime happens in few cities such as St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, and Washington DC. And then it's only in a handful of neighborhoods within those cities. We should fix those places but basic safety isn't something that most Americans have to worry about.
zosima 1y ago
EU is on exactly the same road, just with a (tiny) delay.
- graemep 1y ago
  and they will race ahead if they get chat control through.
- permo-w 1y ago
  except no, the EU has specifically outlawed facial recognition in public places
  - zosima 1y ago
    They have outlawed _live_ facial recognition in public places. And with exemptions such as e.g. terrorism, which I'm guessing is what UK is going to go for with protesters.
    - permo-w 1y ago
      my friend, I'm sorry but this is simply a factual bridge too far. the EU has quite specifically brought out wide-ranging laws heavily restricting the very thing the UK is doing, plus a load of other very positive restrictions on the use of AI and biometrics in general, and yet your conclusion is that they're on the same path? it's like if I say I'm never going to eat meat except rare unavoidable occasions, and you think I'm en route to becoming the liver king. just admit you like criticising the EU and be done with it
      - zosima 1y ago
        What is non-factual? We have another token legislation from EU forbidding private parties to most anything, and carefully inserting loopholes for authorities and government to do as they please. True, the restrictions on live facial recognition is a bit more severe for law enforcement than usual. But: A. It's not something most people here care about a lot. Law enforcement are still allowed to use AI to create a file on every citizen. B. It gives them political points, because now people less-in-the-know will think that they are actually protecting privacy, which is again, not true.
graemep 1y ago
> was the EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc." The EU courts have sometimes been helpful, but the EU lawmakers have been atleast as bad as the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive As other comments have pointed out the EU has also pushed a lot of other privacy invasive legislation.

JFingleton 1y ago

> EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc." And yet they are still pushing [0] [0] https://edri.org/our-work/despite-warning-from-lawyers-eu-governments-push-for-mass-surveillance-of-our-digital-private-lives/ https://edri.org/our-work/despite-warning-from-lawyers-eu-go...

fao_ 1y ago
It's almost like huge organizations built off the backs of many different parties working in tandem, will at times have contradictory aims.
- zosima 1y ago
  In that case it would be nice to see any effort from EU against government surveillance. Sure GDPR and what not, but they're full of loopholes for allowing government to do what private parties are not.
  - ajsnigrutin 1y ago
    EU is trying to implemement chat control... again. That's their effort. https://stopchatcontrol.eu/ https://stopchatcontrol.eu/ It would be nice if we removed the security guards for politicans, and if they're not doing bad stuff, they have nothing to fear.
  - petre 1y ago
    Certain EU citizens remeber the Stasi & friends. That's why Chat Control should be associated with the Stasi by anyone opposing it.
  - permo-w 1y ago
    the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc. HN has terrible EU Derangement Syndrome: any time its mentioned here, suddenly there are tens of people lining up to blindly shit on it, usually for laws it hasn't actually passed, or literal anti-truths like your comment, despite the fact that it is consistently passing the best tech-focused laws of any major governmental body anywhere, and the proposed laws that everyone repeatedly loses their minds over have never once actually come to pass. even when they released the DMA and DSA, possibly the two most HN-friendly pieces of legislation of all time, half the comments were attempts at criticism, basically seemingly because people here just love to hate the EU, sans facts
    - zosima 1y ago
      > the EU has literally banned facial recognition by law enforcement across the entire bloc. This is simply wrong: They have banned _live_ facial recognition - and with exemptions such as e.g. for terrorism and other severe crimes, which is becoming quite broad. They are allowing facial recognition when done after-the-fact for law enforcement. Probably also for petty crimes.
      - permo-w 1y ago
        https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240308IPR19015/artificial-intelligence-act-meps-adopt-landmark-law https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240308IP... if you're going to change the central focus of your comment, do it in a reply not an edit
        zosima 1y ago
        I edited mine after you edited yours. Here is an article about live/post facial recognition: https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ai-facial-recognition-tech-act-late-tweaks-attack-civil-rights-key-lawmaker-hahn-warns/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ai-facial-recognition-tec...
        1y ago

tehjoker 1y ago

[flagged]

dingnuts 1y ago
It's a war, not a genocide. Gaza is under seige. Hamas should unconditionally surrender but they prefer to put their children in harm's way than to surrender. Tell me, if this is a genocide, what has happened to all the Jews in Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan since 1950? No, defense of Israel is the last stand of a people that has been slowly eradicated from their indigenous region for the last 80+ years. Hamas simply needs to surrender in this round of the war they started. But they won't unless they control Jerusalem.
- nullstyle 1y ago
  “Tell me, if this is a genocide, what has happened to all the Jews in Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan since 1950?” Wtf does some history lesson you want to be coy about have to do with innocent civilians starving, every day, more and more, in the present moment?
- LAC-Tech 1y ago
  Israel needs to open it's borders and embrace multi-culturalism.
  - zdragnar 1y ago
    "Death to Israel" is not a culture. The surrounding countries don't care about Palestinians or Israelis.
    - pydry 1y ago
      The surrounding countries are not massacring civilians for the purpose of creating a racially pure ethnostate.
      - deleted 1y ago

_the_inflator 1y ago

No, it is more like UK is now the new surveillance supermarket for EU: implementing what “works” for UK - trusted and applied technology. And also the excuse included: “not China”, but even this doesn’t come as cause for concern anymore. Have a look at the latest US “country report on human rights practices 2025”. Germany is flagged as unsafe so to say. It is as you can only hope that the NSA has some way to spy on your data when EU gets more on more anti privacy and data protection means EU only storage is mandatory. Dire times. Double standards are in full effect.

Yokolos 1y ago
Anything coming out of a US government institution today is not trustworthy. Not sure why you'd reference the 2025 report. It's a laugh and a half that the country deploying the national guard in their own capital and putting the capital's police under federal government control is saying Germany is unsafe. The country that's rounding up immigrants and even US citizens to be deported to random countries. Please. Stop falling for the right-wing propaganda.
- falleng0d 1y ago
  Both things can be true at the same time, is not laughable at all. Germany can be unsafe and US too to the extent they need national guard to get back control
  - Xss3 1y ago
    How can geemany be considered unsafe to the average american? The homicide and violent crime rate in the US is 10x higher than germany, even in the quiet and posh parts of the USA the murder rate is insanely high compared to anywhere in germany.
    - nradov 1y ago
      Nonsense. The murder rate in most of the USA is similar to Germany. My small city has literally zero murders most years. The vast majority of violent crime happens in few cities such as St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, and Washington DC. And then it's only in a handful of neighborhoods within those cities. We should fix those places but basic safety isn't something that most Americans have to worry about.

zosima 1y ago

EU is on exactly the same road, just with a (tiny) delay.

graemep 1y ago
and they will race ahead if they get chat control through.
permo-w 1y ago
except no, the EU has specifically outlawed facial recognition in public places
- zosima 1y ago
  They have outlawed _live_ facial recognition in public places. And with exemptions such as e.g. terrorism, which I'm guessing is what UK is going to go for with protesters.
  - permo-w 1y ago
    my friend, I'm sorry but this is simply a factual bridge too far. the EU has quite specifically brought out wide-ranging laws heavily restricting the very thing the UK is doing, plus a load of other very positive restrictions on the use of AI and biometrics in general, and yet your conclusion is that they're on the same path? it's like if I say I'm never going to eat meat except rare unavoidable occasions, and you think I'm en route to becoming the liver king. just admit you like criticising the EU and be done with it
    - zosima 1y ago
      What is non-factual? We have another token legislation from EU forbidding private parties to most anything, and carefully inserting loopholes for authorities and government to do as they please. True, the restrictions on live facial recognition is a bit more severe for law enforcement than usual. But: A. It's not something most people here care about a lot. Law enforcement are still allowed to use AI to create a file on every citizen. B. It gives them political points, because now people less-in-the-know will think that they are actually protecting privacy, which is again, not true.

graemep 1y ago

> was the EU frequently being like "no wtf UK, that is against human rights, EU law, etc." The EU courts have sometimes been helpful, but the EU lawmakers have been atleast as bad as the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive As other comments have pointed out the EU has also pushed a lot of other privacy invasive legislation.