5 ms·

If legislators are concerned about safety, what are they seeing in other states that indicates a safety problem? If legislators are concerned about farm jobs,

If legislators are concerned about safety, what are they seeing in other states that indicates a safety problem? If legislators are concerned about farm jobs, this is short-sighted, as technology-driven productivity improvements are the basis for the prosperity we experience today.

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
There might be a very important difference between automation pursued because we don't have enough workers to do all the work we would like to see completed, and automation pursued because it is cheaper for the gigantic corporations who will profit from employing fewer workers. But since we are still in the phase where there are too many jobs and not enough people to do them, I think we don't have to worry about those yet. We should revisit this issue in 300 years.
- immibis 1y ago
  We're already in the insufficient jobs phase, but not for farm work. Everyone hates doing farm work and rightfully so. The commenter below me has never actually done farm work. Doing more for less is just better. We should probably invent an economic system that doesn't kill people when efficiency improves.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
    >Everyone hates doing farm work and rightfully so. Yes, everyone hates sitting in the million dollar tractor's cab, sitting on the cushioned seat and enjoying the air conditioning while looking at the dozen screens that remind one of piloting the space shuttle. I'm glad that California's legislators are taking a look at that, and making sure no one ever has to do it again. It's a horrible job, and the sooner it has been eliminated the sooner we can all celebrate.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Most farm jobs are not sitting in the tractor all day. There are only a few farms in the world where a tractor has someone sitting in it all day every day. Most farms the tractors are used for 80 hours a week just a couple weeks per year (planting and harvest time). The rest of the time the tractors sit in the shed. There is a lot of non-tractor jobs farmers do. Many of the farms where the tractor is used full time every day the tractor is just pulling the harvest wagon and the crops are harvested by hand - one person drives the tractor while 30 walk behind it harvesting the crops. The autonomous tractors are for use in fields where there are no other humans (at least so far)
    - reorder9695 1y ago
      Farming is one of the hardest jobs out there. You need to effectively run your own business on fine margins often relying on government subsidies which can change over time, with a lot of risk due to crop failures/livestock disease (culling can be necessary for chickens due to bird flu etc). It requires hard manual labour running the farm with physical risk to you if you work with livestock. Cows don't care if you get sick, they still need cared for no matter what, there isn't much space for holidays or illness. This isn't to mention the few times of the year the tractors are used as you describe, but most tractors aren't this fancy, and how would you like to spend all day every day for a time working the land with the tractor from sunrise to sunset?
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
        [flagged]
sampo 1y ago
If driverless tractors can be made lighter in weight, they could also help in reducing how much the heavy machines cause soil compaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_compaction_(agriculture)#Causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_compaction_(agriculture)#...
- adregan 1y ago
  Surely the weight of a tractor pales in comparison to the person sitting inside? The heavy weight is for that big engine with a lot of torque. Can a lighter weight tractor pull its load?
  - Kirby64 1y ago
    I’d assume all the functionality inside the cab, the space needed, seat, controls, windscreen, AC inside the cabin, etc, add up to quite a bit of weight. If you went truly driverless without a cabin you could save a ton of weight.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Maybe a ton at the most - but the tractor weights far more than a ton. Actually more weight is a good thing in tractors because that allows for more traction.
      - hollerith 1y ago
        Is that really true? The heavier the tank, the more often it gets stuck and needs to be pulled out by other vehicles.
        saalweachter 1y ago
        Tractors tend to spread their load with more, gianter, wider tires. The trade-off for making the tractor larger is that you can pull wider and multiple or multi-function implements to do the entire thing faster in one pass. The larger contact patch for having an absurd number of wheels reduces soil compaction and reduces the chance you get stuck; working in fewer passes further reduces soil compaction and prevents you from getting stuck (since in the ideal case, you're doing one pass on solid ground, and never driving over tilled soil).
mvieira38 1y ago
Liberal media will say they "want automation to replace the tough jobs, not the creative ones" when talking about LLMs, but then support this garbage that is just artificially increasing demand for cheap labor, often covered by vulnerable, illegal immigrants with no way to defend their rights. In trying to protect the workers they end up increasing worker exploitation
- watwut 1y ago
  What liberal media and what does that have to do with 50 years old legislation? Other then wanting to rant at liberal media, because fox said so.
- bcrosby95 1y ago
  4 years ago: "These electric self-driving tractors could make farming much greener" https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/11/tech/monarch-autonomous-electric-tractor-spc-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/11/tech/monarch-autonomous-elect... Or is cnn not what you mean by liberal media?
  - etchalon 1y ago
    Very few people who rant against the liberal media actually consume much content from them.
- os2warpman 1y ago
  Are the liberal media saying this in the room with us right now? What else are they saying?

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago

There might be a very important difference between automation pursued because we don't have enough workers to do all the work we would like to see completed, and automation pursued because it is cheaper for the gigantic corporations who will profit from employing fewer workers. But since we are still in the phase where there are too many jobs and not enough people to do them, I think we don't have to worry about those yet. We should revisit this issue in 300 years.

immibis 1y ago
We're already in the insufficient jobs phase, but not for farm work. Everyone hates doing farm work and rightfully so. The commenter below me has never actually done farm work. Doing more for less is just better. We should probably invent an economic system that doesn't kill people when efficiency improves.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
  >Everyone hates doing farm work and rightfully so. Yes, everyone hates sitting in the million dollar tractor's cab, sitting on the cushioned seat and enjoying the air conditioning while looking at the dozen screens that remind one of piloting the space shuttle. I'm glad that California's legislators are taking a look at that, and making sure no one ever has to do it again. It's a horrible job, and the sooner it has been eliminated the sooner we can all celebrate.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Most farm jobs are not sitting in the tractor all day. There are only a few farms in the world where a tractor has someone sitting in it all day every day. Most farms the tractors are used for 80 hours a week just a couple weeks per year (planting and harvest time). The rest of the time the tractors sit in the shed. There is a lot of non-tractor jobs farmers do. Many of the farms where the tractor is used full time every day the tractor is just pulling the harvest wagon and the crops are harvested by hand - one person drives the tractor while 30 walk behind it harvesting the crops. The autonomous tractors are for use in fields where there are no other humans (at least so far)
  - reorder9695 1y ago
    Farming is one of the hardest jobs out there. You need to effectively run your own business on fine margins often relying on government subsidies which can change over time, with a lot of risk due to crop failures/livestock disease (culling can be necessary for chickens due to bird flu etc). It requires hard manual labour running the farm with physical risk to you if you work with livestock. Cows don't care if you get sick, they still need cared for no matter what, there isn't much space for holidays or illness. This isn't to mention the few times of the year the tractors are used as you describe, but most tractors aren't this fancy, and how would you like to spend all day every day for a time working the land with the tractor from sunrise to sunset?
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
      [flagged]

sampo 1y ago

If driverless tractors can be made lighter in weight, they could also help in reducing how much the heavy machines cause soil compaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_compaction_(agriculture)#Causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_compaction_(agriculture)#...

adregan 1y ago
Surely the weight of a tractor pales in comparison to the person sitting inside? The heavy weight is for that big engine with a lot of torque. Can a lighter weight tractor pull its load?
- Kirby64 1y ago
  I’d assume all the functionality inside the cab, the space needed, seat, controls, windscreen, AC inside the cabin, etc, add up to quite a bit of weight. If you went truly driverless without a cabin you could save a ton of weight.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Maybe a ton at the most - but the tractor weights far more than a ton. Actually more weight is a good thing in tractors because that allows for more traction.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      Is that really true? The heavier the tank, the more often it gets stuck and needs to be pulled out by other vehicles.
      - saalweachter 1y ago
        Tractors tend to spread their load with more, gianter, wider tires. The trade-off for making the tractor larger is that you can pull wider and multiple or multi-function implements to do the entire thing faster in one pass. The larger contact patch for having an absurd number of wheels reduces soil compaction and reduces the chance you get stuck; working in fewer passes further reduces soil compaction and prevents you from getting stuck (since in the ideal case, you're doing one pass on solid ground, and never driving over tilled soil).

mvieira38 1y ago

Liberal media will say they "want automation to replace the tough jobs, not the creative ones" when talking about LLMs, but then support this garbage that is just artificially increasing demand for cheap labor, often covered by vulnerable, illegal immigrants with no way to defend their rights. In trying to protect the workers they end up increasing worker exploitation

watwut 1y ago
What liberal media and what does that have to do with 50 years old legislation? Other then wanting to rant at liberal media, because fox said so.
bcrosby95 1y ago
4 years ago: "These electric self-driving tractors could make farming much greener" https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/11/tech/monarch-autonomous-electric-tractor-spc-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/11/tech/monarch-autonomous-elect... Or is cnn not what you mean by liberal media?
- etchalon 1y ago
  Very few people who rant against the liberal media actually consume much content from them.
os2warpman 1y ago
Are the liberal media saying this in the room with us right now? What else are they saying?