11 ms·
1948: Catholic Church publishes final edition of “Index Librorum Prohibitorum”
- Lio 1y ago“Down with this sort of thing” Makes me think that if this list was still published it would have a sort of Father Ted effect[1] and act as a list of books you’d definitely want to read. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_Saint_Tibulus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_Saint_Tibulus
- smackeyacky 1y agoIn a similar vein, one of my colleagues a few years ago after undergoing workplace sexual harrassment training said "oh learned a couple of new ones" At the time I hoped he wasn't serious, sometimes it's hard to tell.
- tzmudzin 1y ago> workplace sexual harrassment training Well, it’s in the name already. The fact it’s not called “anti-harassment training” always makes me chuckle…
- dragonwriter 1y ago> Makes me think that if this list was still published it would have a sort of Father Ted effect and act as a list of books you’d definitely want to read. The Wikipedia article on the Index note that a related list (the _Index Expurgatorius_, which was at the time published separately but later had its function incorporated within the _Index Librorum Prohibitum_, and listed books subject to similar restrictions as the main index but only conditionally pending correction of specified errors) was called out for something like that use -- in 1627.
- piaste 1y agoUmberto Eco once jokingly lamented the deprecation of the Index, writing that it was a "very handy canon of books one ought to read to call oneself an educated person".
- RGamma 1y agoBeing added to "the index" (Liste der jugendgefährdenden Medien, list of media harmful for youths) was (probably still is) a great marketing vehicle in Germany. While the complete list isn't easy to view (there's secret parts and no official online publication), you would hear about it one way or another.
- Lio 1y agoAs a teenager I read Machiavelli's The Prince with trepidation knowing it was on The List (and me being brought up Catholic). Afterwards I couldn't really see what the fuss was about.
- thomassmith65 1y agoEspecially since there are similar works of the Catholic church, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Worldly_Wisdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Worldly_Wisdom
- mwedwards 1y agoPerhaps the notion of ‘engineering’ ones legitimacy as a ruler was seen as a challenge to the established notion of legitimacy by divine right. (Esp. the role of the church in conferring that right).
- notorandit 1y agoAs a Catholic I can say that was B.S. Reading cannot be a sin. Thinking cannot be a sin. Speaking cannot be a sin. It's a good thing that the index has been abolished in 1966.
- hypertele-Xii 1y ago[flagged]
- mullsork 1y ago> I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For anyone curious.
- thbb123 1y agoOr simply yelling "fire" for no reason in a crowded space must be a sin, pretty much like it's a limit of free speech.
- karlgkk 1y agoin the catholic church, it'd be probably invoke three paths to sin. scandal, which is causing others to do evil without their intent to do so. justice: requiring the dignity and safety of others. and of course, lying.
- aetherspawn 1y agoIndeed, Reading and Thinking … porn or filth for example … can also both be sins per Bible. Matthew 5:28 “But I say to you that everyone who keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
- lukan 1y agoMaybe he is a catholic, who chooses to not take the bible literal? (those who do are actually the rare exception)
- sapphicsnail 1y ago
- photios 1y agoFrom Wikipedia: > The Index was enforceable within the Papal States, but elsewhere only if adopted by the civil powers, as happened in several Italian states. Wow, such a hugely important list that nobody seemed to care about.
- dragonwriter 1y agoThe fact that it wasn't incorporated into civil law didn't mean no one cared about it (also, there were a number of states that didn't formally adopt the Vatican index, but which had their own similar list, and, where they were Catholic states, they often largely mirrored the Vatican list with some local changes.)
- Pinegulf 1y agoFor the interested here is Latin version from 1835:https://archive.org/details/indexlibrorumpro00greg/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/indexlibrorumpro00greg/mode/2up
- yread 1y agoThe actual index starts on page 58
- croisillon 1y agoso in french there is an expression derived from this, condemning/forbidding can be called "putting things on the index" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mettre_%C3%A0_l%27index https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mettre_%C3%A0_l%27index), and "index" is also the name of the pointer finger... so in 1990 a politician said (about a bishop, or was it about the pope himself?): "he doesn't understand how condom is to be used since he put it on the index"
- kiney 1y agosame in germany
- timonofathens 1y ago[dead]
- haritha-j 1y ago[flagged]
- trhway 1y agoA similar, though at much larger scale and in more grotesque way, thing in Russia these days - SWAT raids bookstores and publishers and arresting and filing felony charges against them and removing books for any hint of "propaganda of extremism and terrorism" - where even LGBTQ is declared to be extremism by the Russian Supreme Court and is among the main targets of the censorship and the SWAT. In addition to the books prohibited for their content, any books by "foreign agents" are prohibited too with the "foreign agent" designation assigned directly by the government, bypassing any court, to any minimally public person who disagrees with the government policies. The new law also prohibits public demonstration (which beside movie theaters also includes websites with more than 100K users) of foreign movies not in agreement with the "traditional values of Russia" (which is whatever the government would declare as such).
- simianparrot 1y ago[flagged]
- wizzwizz4 1y agoCan you explain what you mean? I'm not seeing anything much different from 20th-century gay rights activism – if anything, it's way tamer. Nobody's breaking into broadcasting houses to photo-bomb live television broadcasts, and Pride is rarely a riot. You might also consider revisiting your history: "GLBT" was a thing long before the "LGBT" ordering became prevalent – since the 70s, at least. Trans people, and queers of all sorts, have always been a part of gay activism, and in many cases were at the forefront of it. "Drop the T" is a recent movement (although the sentiment isn't new).
- simianparrot 1y agoWe're speaking from different cultural backgrounds here, clearly. In Norway, trans was never part of the gay and lesbian movement. Even bi -- where I fall -- have traditionally been outcasts, often jokingly (or not) described as "the fence sitters". I fall into this category, where given said "fence sitting" I was lucky in that I never felt a need to "come out" because I would just date girls and carefully approach my attraction towards guys. But for a lot of personal experiences it also meant I never quite felt I belonged because I was not gay, nor was I like the majority and completely straight. The gays didn't like "people like me" who "couldn't decide" (something I've heard often, and keep hearing). Trans just has never been a thing culturally here. For one because we have strict laws of medical interventions on underage people, so the so-called "gender-affirming care" situation has not yet hit us. And most people don't feel this way when they reach adulthood, as it's _typically_ a part of puberty. Not to say gender dysphoria doesn't exist, but there's also no actual solution to it right now. You cannot transition from female sexual organs to functional male ones, nor vice versa. We're not there yet with medical technology, and truthfully I don't think it's likely we ever will. Until then all we can offer are cosmetic changes. But because of internationalization and the media, trans has been lumped together with the LGB cause which is causing backlash and misunderstandings from the general population. I realise writing this on a US-centric website is likely to get me ostracised but sometimes I think it's important for different cultures to talk about their differences. We want multiculturalism, right? This is what that means.
- bravesoul2 1y ago> Typis Polyglotis That's me!
- everyone 1y agoI find it hilarious that Copernicus is forbidden, they cant possibly afford to let those incendiary heliocentric ideas get out!
- graemep 1y agoCopernicus's book was forbidden subject to the removal of one section. Copernicus was himself a priest and heliocentrism per se was never the problem. Even Galileo got into trouble for making the specific claim that it had been proved that the sun was the centre of the universe.
- flohofwoe 1y agoI find the helio- vs geocentrism debate infinitely fascinating, because if you just go by the 'scientific method' of observing the night sky from the Earth, then geocentrism also totally makes "scientific sense" as a hypothesis, it just requires a complicated explanation for the complex movement patterns of planets. Turns out that just moving the coordinate system origin from the Earth to the Sun (e.g. literally just a change of perspective) replaces any complicated explanation for those complex movement patterns that are visible from Earth with a much simpler explanation (but a simpler explanation alone doesn't mean yet that it's more correct than the complicated explanation - it's at best more likely until proven). It took until Newton and Einstein to really understand why planets move predictably around the sun and not entirely erratically (AFAIK Newton still believed the movement to be preserved by intervention of God - don't quote me on that though). So the initial stance of the Catholic Church to insist on geocentrism wasn't "unscientific" in the same sense that today's Flat Earthers, astrologists or anti-vaxxers are - compared to those, the 16th century Catholic Church was hardcore rationalist. The church finally recognized heliocentrism in the mid 18th century (so at least they only waited until Newton's death and not Einstein's death lol). But hey, what's a few centuries in the history of the Catholic Church ;)
- jenadine 1y agoHeliocentrism simplifies the equations of movement of the planets but that alone isn't a good justification. It did not explain the movement of the star that were thought to be much closer. And why we wouldn't feel the movement of the earth (Galileo said that in his book the rotation of the earth was causing the tide, which is factually wrong) At the time, this was a fringe theory, like MOND or string theories are today.
- PicassoCTs 1y ago[flagged]
- flohofwoe 1y agoYou're about 929 years late to the party dude.
- Ylpertnodi 1y agoIs Freemasonry acceptable, yet?
- b800h 1y agoNo. Speaking as a Freemason, it's completely understandable that the Vatican would ban masonry for Roman Catholics, both from a practical perspective and a theological one.
- DagsEoress 1y agoNo, and it never will be.
- ivape 1y agoIt’s interesting that even those that concluded God like Descartes were banned. Christ specifically was impressed with a Centurion that sought his healing power (for another, not himself) without even being a Jew or follower of Christ. As in, Christ was simply amazed: “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.” (Matthew 8:10, NIV) Descartes would haven fallen under such faith. I really need to study how the Catholic Church butchered so many interpretations.
- bormaj 1y agoI think the Catholic church's actions could be rationalized through the lens of preserving influence. Descartes' ideas could be viewed as fostering a mindset of self-reliance and independence which is antithetical to a dependence on the church.
- irusensei 1y agoOh it's still maintained although the latest volumes were published by The Payment Processor Cartel(TM) under the title "Sanctions List".