5 ms·

How will jailing them help? Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there. Maybe its easi

by pm90 1y ago

How will jailing them help? Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there. Maybe its easier just to build more housing.

wkat4242 1y ago
They're not the kind of people that can afford housing nor the kind that are able to get a rental contract in the first place. And if they had money they'd just shoot up more. Not trying to diss them but that's just reality. There's very few people homeless because they can't afford it even despite the insane rent prices. Usually it's a ton of untreated mental issues and/or drug addiction. Building more houses will help regular people a ton but not the homeless. More shelters will. Good and affordable mental healthcare too. But that's "communism" so I guess that won't fly in MAGA America.
- matthewdgreen 1y ago
  There have been a bunch of recent studies of this and yes, providing housing seems to dramatically reduce homelessness. https://endhomelessness.org/resources/sharable-graphics/data-visualization-the-evidence-on-housing-first/ https://endhomelessness.org/resources/sharable-graphics/data...
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    Like the other person said the welfare system is apparently that bad in the US. But in Europe I've mainly seen people with mental/drug issues and those from fringe groups like gypsies. There have been plenty of projects involving giving them housing for free, but it never works. The neighborhood quickly becomes a no-go area with constant police presence. They sell all the inventory for drugs, flats become dirty and infested etc. There's a reason these people are homeless and that has to be solved first. But if regular people are homeless then the system is really failing them on basic welfare :(
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  From the data I have seen you are incorrect. Certainly the most visible and disruptive of the homeless are the meth heads and folks with serious mental health problems, but a large chunk are people who simply can't afford a place to live. Los of people living out of their cars out there.
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    Ok I was speaking from my knowledge of here in Europe (my ex worked with homeless and unemployed) and here it's really not the case. People here don't live on the streets unless there's something seriously wrong with them. Anyone else is well supported by the welfare system. They won't be rich and it may take a while and often not in a good area but they'll have a place to live. If this is common for regular people in the US then the system is really letting them down and I'm starting to understand why people vote for Trump (though I'm sure this will only make things worse for them)
    - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
      Ah! Yeah we are having completely different experiences, since I'm in the US. I expect you are correct about the votes for Trump. Voting for change without understanding if that change is likely to be good or bad. Public policy issues are complex and most people probably don't have the time or energy to understand exactly what they are voting for.
charcircuit 1y ago
>Now the public is on the hook for them. Prisoners can pay for their share by providing their labor.
- pixl97 1y ago
  Yay neo-slavery!
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- throawaywpg 1y ago
  yeah! and at $1.25 an hour, we can keep them working it off for life! what a great plan.
  - charcircuit 1y ago
    Federal minimum wage is higher than that. I'm sure ether is some kind of job that can be created that pays more than $1.25 in order to try and pay their share.
    - throawaywpg 1y ago
      Prisoners are not subject to minimum wage laws and are routinely paid wages far below it. In fact, the average wage for prisoners seems to much lower than my generous $1.25 an hour. But then, im a benevolent-ish overlord. "They earn, on average, between 13 cents and 52 cents per hour nationwide. " https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploit...
      - charcircuit 1y ago
        It's in the tax payers interest that prisoners make as much money as possible, while not threatening the rest of society. My point of bringing up minimum wage is that it is a reference point for the value of human labor that prisoners are competiting against others with.
mvdtnz 1y ago
> Now the public is on the hook for them. Uhh as opposed to some private business that should just, what, deal with it? Who else should be responsible for solving homelessness if not the public?
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  The public should be responsible. Prison is the worst way for the public to solve this problem. It’s more expensive (incarceration is extremely expensive), eliminates the possibility of the individuals being productive, introduces them to people who will push them towards more crime (not just the apparent “crime” of not being able to afford a shelter), etc.
ecshafer 1y ago
I spent a month in China and saw one homeless person there who was disabled and panhandljng by a tourist location. The subways and trains and stations had no one pissing on the ground, no one sleeping there (except officeworkers resting their eyes on their commute). There were no human feeces on the ground. Maybe, just maybe we dont have to throw our hands up in the air and say theres nothing to do while we allow a small group of people to make our cities unlivable.
- blacksmith_tb 1y ago
  "A small group of people [who] make our cities unlivable"... you mean, real estate developers?
  - hombre_fatal 1y ago
    The people who are regularly blocked from building housing are the ones making our cities unlivable?
    - blacksmith_tb 1y ago
      Well, I was obviously kidding, developers who build overpriced housing, or unneeded office or retail are part of the problem just like developers who build homes, especially affordable ones, are part of the solution.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
        Developers can't build "overpriced housing". If it's overpriced, it won't sell and the developer loses money until they right-price it and it sells.
        blacksmith_tb 1y ago
        Ah, the wisdom of the market. I could rephrase that as "housing targeted for the rich" who are already pretty well-served, unlike the poor.
brailsafe 1y ago
> Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there. > Maybe its easier just to build more housing. Maybe instead of letting a George Carlin joke from 30 years ago become reality by calling them something different, patting ourselves on the back, then delegating responsibility to whoever's not building houses and subsequently (often) protest the construction of those houses, we should accept that the public is and should be on the hook for them. If not, then we're just a bunch of pathetic individualists who haven't realized the social safety around them is about as strong as cheap wet toilet paper. Living somewhere is not on its own a contribution to society, and building more housing is not enough to uplift people out of severe fentanyl or meth addiction; people on the street are not having conversations about esoteric zoning policies and hoping studio apartments stay at only $2500/m because supply increased marginally quicker over the next 10 years while birth rates dropped and immigration slowed. Supply is an issue, but it's often a red herring. Homeless people are the public, we are the public, blight and suffering within society is society's issue, not just when the Olympics roll around or the leader of a major foreign nation rolls up
profsummergig 1y ago
having the public on the "hook" for them is more responsible than forcing private establishments to pick up the tab. starbucks doesn't want to be on the hook for them either.
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
The public is already on the hook for them. With jails at least we get our public spaces back

by pm90 1y ago

How will jailing them help? Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there. Maybe its easier just to build more housing.

wkat4242 1y ago

They're not the kind of people that can afford housing nor the kind that are able to get a rental contract in the first place. And if they had money they'd just shoot up more. Not trying to diss them but that's just reality. There's very few people homeless because they can't afford it even despite the insane rent prices. Usually it's a ton of untreated mental issues and/or drug addiction. Building more houses will help regular people a ton but not the homeless. More shelters will. Good and affordable mental healthcare too. But that's "communism" so I guess that won't fly in MAGA America.

matthewdgreen 1y ago
There have been a bunch of recent studies of this and yes, providing housing seems to dramatically reduce homelessness. https://endhomelessness.org/resources/sharable-graphics/data-visualization-the-evidence-on-housing-first/ https://endhomelessness.org/resources/sharable-graphics/data...
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Like the other person said the welfare system is apparently that bad in the US. But in Europe I've mainly seen people with mental/drug issues and those from fringe groups like gypsies. There have been plenty of projects involving giving them housing for free, but it never works. The neighborhood quickly becomes a no-go area with constant police presence. They sell all the inventory for drugs, flats become dirty and infested etc. There's a reason these people are homeless and that has to be solved first. But if regular people are homeless then the system is really failing them on basic welfare :(
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
From the data I have seen you are incorrect. Certainly the most visible and disruptive of the homeless are the meth heads and folks with serious mental health problems, but a large chunk are people who simply can't afford a place to live. Los of people living out of their cars out there.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Ok I was speaking from my knowledge of here in Europe (my ex worked with homeless and unemployed) and here it's really not the case. People here don't live on the streets unless there's something seriously wrong with them. Anyone else is well supported by the welfare system. They won't be rich and it may take a while and often not in a good area but they'll have a place to live. If this is common for regular people in the US then the system is really letting them down and I'm starting to understand why people vote for Trump (though I'm sure this will only make things worse for them)
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    Ah! Yeah we are having completely different experiences, since I'm in the US. I expect you are correct about the votes for Trump. Voting for change without understanding if that change is likely to be good or bad. Public policy issues are complex and most people probably don't have the time or energy to understand exactly what they are voting for.

charcircuit 1y ago

>Now the public is on the hook for them. Prisoners can pay for their share by providing their labor.

pixl97 1y ago
Yay neo-slavery!
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
throawaywpg 1y ago
yeah! and at $1.25 an hour, we can keep them working it off for life! what a great plan.
- charcircuit 1y ago
  Federal minimum wage is higher than that. I'm sure ether is some kind of job that can be created that pays more than $1.25 in order to try and pay their share.
  - throawaywpg 1y ago
    Prisoners are not subject to minimum wage laws and are routinely paid wages far below it. In fact, the average wage for prisoners seems to much lower than my generous $1.25 an hour. But then, im a benevolent-ish overlord. "They earn, on average, between 13 cents and 52 cents per hour nationwide. " https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploit...
    - charcircuit 1y ago
      It's in the tax payers interest that prisoners make as much money as possible, while not threatening the rest of society. My point of bringing up minimum wage is that it is a reference point for the value of human labor that prisoners are competiting against others with.

mvdtnz 1y ago

> Now the public is on the hook for them. Uhh as opposed to some private business that should just, what, deal with it? Who else should be responsible for solving homelessness if not the public?

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
The public should be responsible. Prison is the worst way for the public to solve this problem. It’s more expensive (incarceration is extremely expensive), eliminates the possibility of the individuals being productive, introduces them to people who will push them towards more crime (not just the apparent “crime” of not being able to afford a shelter), etc.

ecshafer 1y ago

I spent a month in China and saw one homeless person there who was disabled and panhandljng by a tourist location. The subways and trains and stations had no one pissing on the ground, no one sleeping there (except officeworkers resting their eyes on their commute). There were no human feeces on the ground. Maybe, just maybe we dont have to throw our hands up in the air and say theres nothing to do while we allow a small group of people to make our cities unlivable.

blacksmith_tb 1y ago
"A small group of people [who] make our cities unlivable"... you mean, real estate developers?
- hombre_fatal 1y ago
  The people who are regularly blocked from building housing are the ones making our cities unlivable?
  - blacksmith_tb 1y ago
    Well, I was obviously kidding, developers who build overpriced housing, or unneeded office or retail are part of the problem just like developers who build homes, especially affordable ones, are part of the solution.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
      Developers can't build "overpriced housing". If it's overpriced, it won't sell and the developer loses money until they right-price it and it sells.
      - blacksmith_tb 1y ago
        Ah, the wisdom of the market. I could rephrase that as "housing targeted for the rich" who are already pretty well-served, unlike the poor.

brailsafe 1y ago

> Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there. > Maybe its easier just to build more housing. Maybe instead of letting a George Carlin joke from 30 years ago become reality by calling them something different, patting ourselves on the back, then delegating responsibility to whoever's not building houses and subsequently (often) protest the construction of those houses, we should accept that the public is and should be on the hook for them. If not, then we're just a bunch of pathetic individualists who haven't realized the social safety around them is about as strong as cheap wet toilet paper. Living somewhere is not on its own a contribution to society, and building more housing is not enough to uplift people out of severe fentanyl or meth addiction; people on the street are not having conversations about esoteric zoning policies and hoping studio apartments stay at only $2500/m because supply increased marginally quicker over the next 10 years while birth rates dropped and immigration slowed. Supply is an issue, but it's often a red herring. Homeless people are the public, we are the public, blight and suffering within society is society's issue, not just when the Olympics roll around or the leader of a major foreign nation rolls up

profsummergig 1y ago

having the public on the "hook" for them is more responsible than forcing private establishments to pick up the tab. starbucks doesn't want to be on the hook for them either.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago

The public is already on the hook for them. With jails at least we get our public spaces back