4 ms·

These are the kind of claims that make some Linux users tiresome to talk to. (Full disclosure: I am also a Linux user). I'm not defending Microsoft, they are n

These are the kind of claims that make some Linux users tiresome to talk to. (Full disclosure: I am also a Linux user). I'm not defending Microsoft, they are not necessarily my cup of tea, but these claims are only true of anything pre-Nadella era (part of 2014 and earlier). Feel free to express your opinions, but don't be hateful!

dingnuts 1y ago
The grandparent was also wryly highlighting the crevasse between post-Nadella Microsoft's PR, which you seem to believe, and their actions. Despite "MS <3s Open Source" they never changed, you're just referencing a very successful era of marketing. And poor Linux users are out here catching strays. Very "don't you say that about the $1T company!!!" of you to defend them, "fellow Linux user" (also very hi fellow kids..)
- gmueckl 1y ago
  Then you surely have a laundry list of examples from the last 10 years where MS showed the same anticompetitive nature that they had in the 90s.
  - yencabulator 1y ago
    Yes, people keep bringing up VSCode all the time, but fanboys are gonna fanboy.
    - soraminazuki 1y ago
      And Windows, that one obscure product from Microsoft that people here keep forgetting about.
- ivanmontillam 1y ago
  I try not to drink the Kool-Aid either on Microsoft's side (again, they are not necessarily my cup of tea), but the prevalence of the people with the "Hey! Remember that Steve Ballmer called Linux a cancer? Micro$$$hit!!" attitude sucks my energy dry.
  - fuzztester 1y ago
    who at microsoft said open source is unamerican https://www.google.com/search?q=who+at+microsoft+said+open+source+is+unamerican https://www.google.com/search?q=who+at+microsoft+said+open+s... one of the results: Weekly news wrapup: Microsoft claims Linux is un-American: https://www.linux.com/news/weekly-news-wrapup-microsoft-claims-linux-un-american/ https://www.linux.com/news/weekly-news-wrapup-microsoft-clai... from 2001. well, gosh, I feel sorry for those American Linux developers of that time. I guess they were unAmerican, according to Allchin. if they were of this time, i guess they would have been deported by ICE. sorry for the victim now ... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-48lNCrmqxA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-48lNCrmqxA
    - ivanmontillam 1y ago
      Well, for starters: Linux is of Finnish origin. Linus Torvalds might be a U.S. citizen today, but during the first years of Linux he was certainly not thinking U.S. values and that someday his biggest userbase would be there. > Weekly news wrapup: Microsoft claims Linux is un-American: Yeah, typical Ballmer-era.
      - abcd_f 1y ago
        > he was certainly not thinking U.S. values Damn. I wasn't sure if you were trolling above and now it's clear that you were.
        fuzztester 1y ago
        yeah! jfc. what a pompous, fake hipster mentality he has. I looked him up, via his HN profile: here is his About me section, at the bottom of his blog's main page - https://www.ivanmontilla.com/ https://www.ivanmontilla.com/ : I found it so funny and hypocritical that I highlighted some of the sillier phrases below - in italics : ------------------------- About me Ivan Montilla I self-define as a challenger of the status quo. Usually, I question trends. Normalcy is to be avoided. Some of the greatest opportunities lie where no one else is looking. I’m more of a niche markets guy. My interests are ever-changing, but I’m currently interested in financial markets technology. I’m also passionate for software performance. I do develop some software, but not professionally. I’m more of a power user of programming languages. I see it as a craft, both engineering and some form of art. ---------------------------
Arch-TK 1y ago
Microsoft continues to produce absolute garbage (except now it's also adware) and continues to utilise aggressive tactics to gain market share. They deserve plenty of hate.
- ivanmontillam 1y ago
  I can agree anti-consumer behaviour is still ingrained in parts of Microsoft, as a dormant beast waiting to be Ballmer-ized for a new round. But again, why the baseless argument based on hate? You can (for example) de-bloat Windows 11 out from the telemetry and annoying widgets nobody uses, including the invasive Copilot. After de-bloating, it's a decent OS on its own. I should have the right to have a clean Windows out-of-the-box, but de-bloating is still a viable path.
  - pjerem 1y ago
    > You can (for example) de-bloat Windows 11 out from the telemetry and annoying widgets nobody uses, including the invasive Copilot. > After de-bloating, it's a decent OS on its own. Sure you can. I, as a tech savvy person, can debloat Windows 11. If I dare to do it. If I know I can do it. If I search for information on the internet on how to do it. If I know how to search and follow those instructions. If I follow all the steps (and hope my tutorial covers everything). If Microsoft doesn’t push an update to bloat it again. And with that, well I still don’t know how to install it without a Microsoft account. It’s so incredibly user hostile that even the insufferable Apple Walled Garden don’t force you into all of this shit.
    - p_ing 1y ago
      You can create an unattended answer file to skip the MSFT account. https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/
      - pjerem 1y ago
        Of course I can. And when this method will not be available anymore, I will still be able to reverse engineer the Windows ISO to hack it. (Sorry for the ça sarcasm, I know you wanted to be helpful, I already knew that but maybe someone will read your comment and discover it so thank you)
yencabulator 1y ago
You are defending Microsoft. https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extensions.md#visual-studio-marketplace https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extens... https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extensions-compatibility.md https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extens... https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-cpptools/wiki/Microsoft-Native-Debugger-licensing-and-Microsoft-Visual-Studio-Code https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-cpptools/wiki/Microsoft-...
- ivanmontillam 1y ago
  I am not. Also, I am not a VSCode user or would-be VSCodium user. I am happily married to JetBrains IDEs. Thanks. I don't need Electron nor WebView2 bloat on my nice, beautiful ThinkPad.
  - yencabulator 1y ago
    You literally said > these claims are only true of anything pre-Nadella era (part of 2014 and earlier). in response to parent's > - creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kill open technologies (ActiveX plugins, Silverlight, C++/CLI, MSJVM, etc.) and VSCode is a perfect example of that happening right now.
rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago
Skepticism that is informed by history isn’t being hateful
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  Not in and of itself, but it can certainly be couched in an emotionally charged manner.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago
    That's still not being hateful
michaelmrose 1y ago
Nadella has worked in senior leadership positions at MS for 33 years. His era began in 1992 not when he became CEO.
whoknowsidont 1y ago
> but these claims are only true of anything pre-Nadella era Why does this matter? How does that invalidate anything? Are global companies only accountable for their actions so long as they maintain the same CEO? >but don't be hateful! Won't someone please think of the poor global technology conglomerate!

dingnuts 1y ago

The grandparent was also wryly highlighting the crevasse between post-Nadella Microsoft's PR, which you seem to believe, and their actions. Despite "MS <3s Open Source" they never changed, you're just referencing a very successful era of marketing. And poor Linux users are out here catching strays. Very "don't you say that about the $1T company!!!" of you to defend them, "fellow Linux user" (also very hi fellow kids..)

gmueckl 1y ago
Then you surely have a laundry list of examples from the last 10 years where MS showed the same anticompetitive nature that they had in the 90s.
- yencabulator 1y ago
  Yes, people keep bringing up VSCode all the time, but fanboys are gonna fanboy.
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    And Windows, that one obscure product from Microsoft that people here keep forgetting about.
ivanmontillam 1y ago
I try not to drink the Kool-Aid either on Microsoft's side (again, they are not necessarily my cup of tea), but the prevalence of the people with the "Hey! Remember that Steve Ballmer called Linux a cancer? Micro$$$hit!!" attitude sucks my energy dry.
- fuzztester 1y ago
  who at microsoft said open source is unamerican https://www.google.com/search?q=who+at+microsoft+said+open+source+is+unamerican https://www.google.com/search?q=who+at+microsoft+said+open+s... one of the results: Weekly news wrapup: Microsoft claims Linux is un-American: https://www.linux.com/news/weekly-news-wrapup-microsoft-claims-linux-un-american/ https://www.linux.com/news/weekly-news-wrapup-microsoft-clai... from 2001. well, gosh, I feel sorry for those American Linux developers of that time. I guess they were unAmerican, according to Allchin. if they were of this time, i guess they would have been deported by ICE. sorry for the victim now ... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-48lNCrmqxA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-48lNCrmqxA
  - ivanmontillam 1y ago
    Well, for starters: Linux is of Finnish origin. Linus Torvalds might be a U.S. citizen today, but during the first years of Linux he was certainly not thinking U.S. values and that someday his biggest userbase would be there. > Weekly news wrapup: Microsoft claims Linux is un-American: Yeah, typical Ballmer-era.
    - abcd_f 1y ago
      > he was certainly not thinking U.S. values Damn. I wasn't sure if you were trolling above and now it's clear that you were.
      - fuzztester 1y ago
        yeah! jfc. what a pompous, fake hipster mentality he has. I looked him up, via his HN profile: here is his About me section, at the bottom of his blog's main page - https://www.ivanmontilla.com/ https://www.ivanmontilla.com/ : I found it so funny and hypocritical that I highlighted some of the sillier phrases below - in italics : ------------------------- About me Ivan Montilla I self-define as a challenger of the status quo. Usually, I question trends. Normalcy is to be avoided. Some of the greatest opportunities lie where no one else is looking. I’m more of a niche markets guy. My interests are ever-changing, but I’m currently interested in financial markets technology. I’m also passionate for software performance. I do develop some software, but not professionally. I’m more of a power user of programming languages. I see it as a craft, both engineering and some form of art. ---------------------------

Arch-TK 1y ago

Microsoft continues to produce absolute garbage (except now it's also adware) and continues to utilise aggressive tactics to gain market share. They deserve plenty of hate.

ivanmontillam 1y ago
I can agree anti-consumer behaviour is still ingrained in parts of Microsoft, as a dormant beast waiting to be Ballmer-ized for a new round. But again, why the baseless argument based on hate? You can (for example) de-bloat Windows 11 out from the telemetry and annoying widgets nobody uses, including the invasive Copilot. After de-bloating, it's a decent OS on its own. I should have the right to have a clean Windows out-of-the-box, but de-bloating is still a viable path.
- pjerem 1y ago
  > You can (for example) de-bloat Windows 11 out from the telemetry and annoying widgets nobody uses, including the invasive Copilot. > After de-bloating, it's a decent OS on its own. Sure you can. I, as a tech savvy person, can debloat Windows 11. If I dare to do it. If I know I can do it. If I search for information on the internet on how to do it. If I know how to search and follow those instructions. If I follow all the steps (and hope my tutorial covers everything). If Microsoft doesn’t push an update to bloat it again. And with that, well I still don’t know how to install it without a Microsoft account. It’s so incredibly user hostile that even the insufferable Apple Walled Garden don’t force you into all of this shit.
  - p_ing 1y ago
    You can create an unattended answer file to skip the MSFT account. https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/
    - pjerem 1y ago
      Of course I can. And when this method will not be available anymore, I will still be able to reverse engineer the Windows ISO to hack it. (Sorry for the ça sarcasm, I know you wanted to be helpful, I already knew that but maybe someone will read your comment and discover it so thank you)

yencabulator 1y ago

You are defending Microsoft. https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extensions.md#visual-studio-marketplace https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extens... https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extensions-compatibility.md https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/docs/extens... https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-cpptools/wiki/Microsoft-Native-Debugger-licensing-and-Microsoft-Visual-Studio-Code https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-cpptools/wiki/Microsoft-...

ivanmontillam 1y ago
I am not. Also, I am not a VSCode user or would-be VSCodium user. I am happily married to JetBrains IDEs. Thanks. I don't need Electron nor WebView2 bloat on my nice, beautiful ThinkPad.
- yencabulator 1y ago
  You literally said > these claims are only true of anything pre-Nadella era (part of 2014 and earlier). in response to parent's > - creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kill open technologies (ActiveX plugins, Silverlight, C++/CLI, MSJVM, etc.) and VSCode is a perfect example of that happening right now.

rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago

Skepticism that is informed by history isn’t being hateful

fc417fc802 1y ago
Not in and of itself, but it can certainly be couched in an emotionally charged manner.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago
  That's still not being hateful

michaelmrose 1y ago

Nadella has worked in senior leadership positions at MS for 33 years. His era began in 1992 not when he became CEO.

whoknowsidont 1y ago

> but these claims are only true of anything pre-Nadella era Why does this matter? How does that invalidate anything? Are global companies only accountable for their actions so long as they maintain the same CEO? >but don't be hateful! Won't someone please think of the poor global technology conglomerate!