4 ms·

It's kinda funny that Americans look at the German economy and think they want to be in that situation. You would rather have an economy based on manufacturing

It's kinda funny that Americans look at the German economy and think they want to be in that situation. You would rather have an economy based on manufacturing cars, rather than one based on leading in tech? You sure?

Workaccount2 1y ago
People want Germany's 1,350 average annual working hours compared to America's average 1,765 hours, and then tax billionaires to make up the difference. Probably wouldn't work out well, but that is the shiny object they are transfixed on.
- OscarCunningham 1y ago
  The PPP median income of the US is 36% higher than Germany. If they want 30% fewer working hours then they can have it now, and 6% left over.
  - Workaccount2 1y ago
    German economic growth has been shrinking for decades and is now in decline (negative growth). Meanwhile the US has been chugging along at a steady 2-3% for that same time period. Ironically, PPP is exactly the kind of myopic metric Germany would use to self-access right now.
bitshiftfaced 1y ago
What makes those two things mutually exclusive?
legitster 1y ago
> "Each of you in your private household would know better than that. You don’t regard it as a favorable balance when you have to send out more goods to get fewer coming in. It’s favorable when you can get more by sending out less.” - Milton Friedman Being obsessed about trade deficit is missing the forest for the trees. If you can run a successful modern economy just by sending out slips of paper, that's a great deal. That said, even Friedman made a caveat for national defense. If war breaks out and you have no manufacturing capacity, there are theoretically bad problems there. It also doesn't account for cultural concerns. Maybe a country that doesn't have enough manual labor jobs develops weakness and stagnation?
oezi 1y ago
The German economy is indeed heavily influenced by its manufacturing sector and its reliance on large trade surplusses. Consequently the German workers can't be granted huge wage increases because it would reduce their competitiveness internationally. In contrast the US economy is service-based and thus isn't constrained to scale their prices up so much. Of course manufacturing becomes very hard to maintain when skilled workers can earn >100k. All stats show that top US tech companies earn incredible amounts of money but their share of GDP growth isn't as big as the Mag7 share of the stock markets makes you think. (<15% of GDP growth in 2024)
- nradov 1y ago
  How does Australia fit into that model? Their economy is based more on resource extraction than on technology or manufacturing, and wages are high relative to most other developed countries.
giardini 1y ago
I want to have good American-made tools that don't break under normal use and can be easily maintained. To do that we apparently need a robust manufacturing economy. Cars are great: we need good cars, but more than that, we need good tools to fix the cars. Taiwan make/have some of the best tools in the world. There's no reason the USA can't do the same. We once did.
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  Why do you care if the tools are American-made? What's wrong with buying good Tawianese-made tools?
  - giardini 1y ago
    b/c Taiwan's very existence is precarious: Red China keeps threatening to take over Taiwan and Red China clearly views the USA as a political and military enemy. I do buy good Taiwanese-made tools unless there's a better American-made tool.

Workaccount2 1y ago

People want Germany's 1,350 average annual working hours compared to America's average 1,765 hours, and then tax billionaires to make up the difference. Probably wouldn't work out well, but that is the shiny object they are transfixed on.

OscarCunningham 1y ago
The PPP median income of the US is 36% higher than Germany. If they want 30% fewer working hours then they can have it now, and 6% left over.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  German economic growth has been shrinking for decades and is now in decline (negative growth). Meanwhile the US has been chugging along at a steady 2-3% for that same time period. Ironically, PPP is exactly the kind of myopic metric Germany would use to self-access right now.

bitshiftfaced 1y ago

What makes those two things mutually exclusive?

legitster 1y ago

> "Each of you in your private household would know better than that. You don’t regard it as a favorable balance when you have to send out more goods to get fewer coming in. It’s favorable when you can get more by sending out less.” - Milton Friedman Being obsessed about trade deficit is missing the forest for the trees. If you can run a successful modern economy just by sending out slips of paper, that's a great deal. That said, even Friedman made a caveat for national defense. If war breaks out and you have no manufacturing capacity, there are theoretically bad problems there. It also doesn't account for cultural concerns. Maybe a country that doesn't have enough manual labor jobs develops weakness and stagnation?

oezi 1y ago

The German economy is indeed heavily influenced by its manufacturing sector and its reliance on large trade surplusses. Consequently the German workers can't be granted huge wage increases because it would reduce their competitiveness internationally. In contrast the US economy is service-based and thus isn't constrained to scale their prices up so much. Of course manufacturing becomes very hard to maintain when skilled workers can earn >100k. All stats show that top US tech companies earn incredible amounts of money but their share of GDP growth isn't as big as the Mag7 share of the stock markets makes you think. (<15% of GDP growth in 2024)

nradov 1y ago
How does Australia fit into that model? Their economy is based more on resource extraction than on technology or manufacturing, and wages are high relative to most other developed countries.

giardini 1y ago

I want to have good American-made tools that don't break under normal use and can be easily maintained. To do that we apparently need a robust manufacturing economy. Cars are great: we need good cars, but more than that, we need good tools to fix the cars. Taiwan make/have some of the best tools in the world. There's no reason the USA can't do the same. We once did.

BobaFloutist 1y ago
Why do you care if the tools are American-made? What's wrong with buying good Tawianese-made tools?
- giardini 1y ago
  b/c Taiwan's very existence is precarious: Red China keeps threatening to take over Taiwan and Red China clearly views the USA as a political and military enemy. I do buy good Taiwanese-made tools unless there's a better American-made tool.