4 ms·

The marginal value being too low is just the company being bad at optimizing. Yes, contrary to fairy tales, companies are not so good at this because internal p

The marginal value being too low is just the company being bad at optimizing. Yes, contrary to fairy tales, companies are not so good at this because internal politics and/or poor management. My country switched from 39 to 35 hours maximum working time per week, some years ago, in order to reduce unemployment (we are talking about around 25M workers). The net result was that companies did not hire more people (or less than expected), they figured out ways to make their working force more productive. > This is disastrous for someone who'd love to work at $x/hour This does not exist, period. If x is below the cost of housing and eating in the area, it's not worth working, or it is a last ditch job that delays dying on the streets - that's the reality we are talking about. I am pretty sure that the minimal wage they set is just above that, unless I missed the memo and California became socialist.

chii 1y ago
> The marginal value being too low is just the company being bad at optimizing. not really. If there's a job for cleaning the sidewalk of a joint, or for holding up a sign, but this marginal value is very low, then a minimum wage greater than this value will prevent this productive work from being done (or it'd be done by an existing worker, at the sacrifice of some other productive work they _could've_ done). There's no way to "optimize" this. Personally i am not a fan of minimum wage. I rather have tax payer money spent on creating valuable workers through training. There's lots of models for such programs - for example, an apprenticeship model, where a firm pays for the cost of an apprenticeship (which includes wages as well as cost of training), in exchange for an agreed upon number of years of employment at an agreed upon fixed wage post-training (they cannot quit or will have to pay back the cost of training for example).
- astrobe_ 1y ago
  > Personally i am not a fan of minimum wage. I rather have tax payer Tax payer? > in exchange for an agreed upon number of years of employment at an agreed upon fixed wage post-training (they cannot quit or will have to pay back the cost of training for example) Well I've heard of such model once, a scam school used it for what basically was forced labor. Thankfully the contract was nullified by a court. It's not surprising to me, as I have heard too many stories of harassment and abuse at work. There's not even a need for that, normal programs such as part-time school, part-time work paid half the minimum wage already exist in my country and are generally appreciated. But they exist mainly for skilled work only, such as engineer positions. The issue is that you don't need much training for sidewalk cleaning, so "innovative" programs won't solve anything. What is needed is to push back against abusive practices caused by the imbalances of the worker market. Companies are predatory by nature.

chii 1y ago

> The marginal value being too low is just the company being bad at optimizing. not really. If there's a job for cleaning the sidewalk of a joint, or for holding up a sign, but this marginal value is very low, then a minimum wage greater than this value will prevent this productive work from being done (or it'd be done by an existing worker, at the sacrifice of some other productive work they _could've_ done). There's no way to "optimize" this. Personally i am not a fan of minimum wage. I rather have tax payer money spent on creating valuable workers through training. There's lots of models for such programs - for example, an apprenticeship model, where a firm pays for the cost of an apprenticeship (which includes wages as well as cost of training), in exchange for an agreed upon number of years of employment at an agreed upon fixed wage post-training (they cannot quit or will have to pay back the cost of training for example).

astrobe_ 1y ago
> Personally i am not a fan of minimum wage. I rather have tax payer Tax payer? > in exchange for an agreed upon number of years of employment at an agreed upon fixed wage post-training (they cannot quit or will have to pay back the cost of training for example) Well I've heard of such model once, a scam school used it for what basically was forced labor. Thankfully the contract was nullified by a court. It's not surprising to me, as I have heard too many stories of harassment and abuse at work. There's not even a need for that, normal programs such as part-time school, part-time work paid half the minimum wage already exist in my country and are generally appreciated. But they exist mainly for skilled work only, such as engineer positions. The issue is that you don't need much training for sidewalk cleaning, so "innovative" programs won't solve anything. What is needed is to push back against abusive practices caused by the imbalances of the worker market. Companies are predatory by nature.