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ICE used cars are often in relative good working condition. EV used cars are basically dead batteries. It makes a lot of sense to see used EVs price plummet. T

by chii 1y ago

ICE used cars are often in relative good working condition. EV used cars are basically dead batteries. It makes a lot of sense to see used EVs price plummet. The index being used to make this comparison doesn't seem to disclose the car category, so it's hard to draw any conclusions. If tesla car specifically drops in value, compared to other electric car brands for similar vintage/model vehicles, then you can draw a conclusion. Otherwise, it'd be merely confirmation bias.

rapsey 1y ago
They are not dead, EV batteries actually last a very long time. Over here in europe there is actually a company that will repair your battery and Tesla cars are great for that.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
Sure, if you define 85% of original capacity to be dead.
hvb2 1y ago
> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. A lot of these used to be leased cars. Why would those batteries be dead? And if they are under the 70% mark then Tesla warranty should cover that. See https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty
- jfoster 1y ago
  An 8 year warranty seems fine for new vehicles, but doesn't help much with selling used vehicles that are 6 or 7 years old.
  - senectus1 1y ago
    my cheap chinese MG4 with and LFP has a 10 year warranty...
- benjiro 1y ago
  Never owned a Tesla, but the amount of horror stories involved with Tesla, its often a hard battle to get warranty, especially around the battery when it involves a second hand vehicle. Even first owner vehicles are often a mixed experience. I assumed you never opened the link you point to, as its literally in the first line very clearly "Your new Tesla" (as in, not a second hand vehicle). Ooooo, fun, look a bit lower in the actual model info. Your vehicle need to return to the first registered area to gain warranty for a resell. Here in Europe we see often cars being sold that come from Spain or other area's, in Germany. By that contract condition, it need to go back to Spain for a battery fix. lol Tesla Vehicle warranty is at discretion of Tesla bla bla ... Battery max 8 years, or 240.000km, ... Lots of other exceptions to that warranty. And if you can apply the warranty, your also not getting a new battery, but a refurb based upon the whole description. Fyi: Lithium batteries drop in capacity faster and faster when they go past the 80% mark. But legally, Tesla can shove anything in there. A 100% battery, a 80% battery, ... you get the point. With a ICE engine, even on rental cars, you tend to get the same millage out of them, as a new one. Most issues are often more on the clutch or turbo, both relative cheap repairs compared to a battery pack. People have been warned years ago, that second hand market for EV cars is going to be a issue because of the battery. Now we are seeing the effect on the pricing.
  - hvb2 1y ago
    I believe you misinterpreted that piece about area. Area there is Europe. Warranties on us cars do not apply in Europe. Source: https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/...
jfoster 1y ago
This seems to happen with other types of electronics, too. I think many avoid used laptops and phones partly due to the expectation that the overall condition won't be good.
- incone123 1y ago
  You're right. Amazon UK has a great selection of used ThinkPads with worn out batteries. Fine if you have no plan to use it away from mains power. If something has a battery, I would rather buy new.
runeks 1y ago
> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. Source please.
- jfoster 1y ago
  It's an exaggeration but you shouldn't need a source for older batteries being in worse condition than brand new batteries. Perhaps if battery condition could be measured and reported on well, used EVs could be more appropriately valued.
  - mirsadm 1y ago
    On many EVs (including Tesla's) you can measure the health of the battery. How are you going to measure the health of an ICE engine or transmission?
    - mlhpdx 1y ago
      Mechanics have been doing that for about 100 years now. It’s not complicated to judge the “health” of an engine. Compression ratio, exhaust composition, even just the sound of it to a trained ear. While the cost of replacing a battery in an EV is high, it’s not very different than an engine and transmission.
      - bestnameever 1y ago
        I determine when to change the oil in my car based on how the engine sounds.
      - YZF 1y ago
        Compression ratio basically just measures the state of the valves and the piston rings. There are many other parts that can wear out. I've owned many ICE vehicles, cars and motorcycles- you're taking some risk when you buy a used one. If it's an owner that kept meticulous service records, and they're all according to the manufacturer recommendations, and the car is inspected by a good mechanic, then it's likely to be ok. But even then you just never know, they fail on some curve. Lots of aluminum engines end up developing some warpage and head gasket issues. Transmissions aren't as easy to check, you can look at the fluid but if it's been recently replaced that won't tell you much. You can analyze engine oil but nobody does that when purchasing a vehicle (and you don't know when the oil has been replaced).
jchw 1y ago
Hmmm. The Cybertruck has only been on sale since 2023, so presumably it shouldn't be impacted by this issue, but it seems like it still is (moreso than other used cars at least.) Being the most distinctive Tesla car there is, I expect a lot of that does come down to damage to the brand...
- devmor 1y ago
  I don't think we should consider the Cybertruck alongside the other Tesla vehicles in this particular comparison. Brand aside, it's a low quality vehicle that gets outclassed by both EV and ICE trucks at half (or less, depending on configuration) of its MSRP - all of which have a better reliability track record.
conradev 1y ago
Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? I own a Toyota 4Runner which is known for holding its value long term and is super reliable… but I do have to change fluids regularly, for example. Engine oil, transfer case fluid, etc. Regenerative braking is supposed to be nicer to the actual brakes, too, even though an EV with the same capacity is generally heavier.
- cma 1y ago
  I think EVs need more tire changes and rotations from the added weight and the tires are a bit more expensive.
  - otherme123 1y ago
    Engineering Explained youtuber made recently a video selling his Tesla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE), and all his mantainance costs for 60k miles are quite low: about $600, taking out damage from hitting a pothole hard. The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k
    - chronal4720 1y ago
      > The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k Not in California. Many people charge exclusively at superchargers and pay $42+ for 250 miles of range ($0.60+/kWh peak hours after work). That’s 6-8 gallons in an ICE car. At $5/gallon this makes EV supercharging more expensive than gasoline.
      - hvb2 1y ago
        When buying an ev, knowing you can charge at home should be part of your decision. Also, I've never seen 60 cents a kWh at a supercharger in California. 50 cents, plenty of times. But that's the most I've seen. Maybe that's some specific part of LA or something.
        1y ago
akmarinov 1y ago
> EV used cars are basically dead batteries Lol, no, they’re not. The average EV is likely in a better condition than the average ICE, due to the maintenance requirements on both
danielheath 1y ago
I have looked at a few 2012 Nissan leafs, out of curiosity. Virtually all of them have over half their original battery life. That’s low enough to be restrictive in a car, but far from dead.
- nothercastle 1y ago
  A lot of the cheap old ones have 35-60 miles of range. Enough to get to town but not back
  - geerlingguy 1y ago
    But fine for a local errand car, at the right price. And there are a couple places working on replacement battery packs.
- hvb2 1y ago
  Keep in mind that those are dinosaurs in the ev world. Battery is air cooled and can't really fast charge. They're great commuter cars though if the range is enough or you charge at work Source, I have one :)
- kedikedi 1y ago
  And if it’s the very first gen of the Leaf, then, as far as I know, they don’t have thermal management for the batteries. So it greatly stresses them both for discharge and charge and that manifests as reduced capacity. Lithium cells are happy when they are around 20-25 degrees Celsius (about 75F?) but they don’t enjoy when it’s hot or cold. Likewise, they don’t enjoy full charges and discharges which I’d guess more probable in a smaller range car. All in all, the first gen Leaf might not be a good benchmark for a more modern EV. Many things should be better now.
mirsadm 1y ago
Not sure if you're being intentionally dishonest. It makes no sense for ICE cars to be in good working condition and EVs to have dead batteries. If anything I'd be much more worried about an engine/transmission dying in an ICE car because you need to know how the car was driven and maintained by the previous owner(s).
- nothercastle 1y ago
  The power bus transformer/controller is essentially the EV equivalent of transmission. It can die and also be very expensive
- chronal4720 1y ago
  > If anything I'd be much more worried about an engine/transmission dying in an ICE car because you need to know how the car was driven and maintained by the previous owner(s). ICE car dies after X miles are driven. EV car dies after X years have elapsed, regardless of mileage.
  - croes 1y ago
    Nope. Battery life isn’t simply dependent on time passed. Al lot is based on how it’s charged and discharged
Joel_Mckay 1y ago
>EV used cars are basically dead batteries True, a local club has an Electric 1913 Detroit that ran for 78 years on the same set of Edison cells. These cells were replaced due to leakage rather than capacity loss by the club re-builders a few decades back. Think about the total distance traveled compared to a modern EV. YMMV was never so true. The battery is the car for most EV, and given most manufacturers adversarial relationship with external repair shops it is effectively e-waste in 8 to 14 years. =3
motorest 1y ago
> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. A quick googling shows some sources claiming EVs are in general designed with a planned service life or around 10 years. That's basically the same planned service life for ICE cars, which some sources claim it tends to be 12 years or 200k miles. One source suggests battery capacity in EVs drop less than 2% per year on average. These numbers seem to contradict you, but you show your data so that we can look into it.
- irrational 1y ago
  I always keep my ICE cars for at least 25 years. It is crazy to me that people are getting rid of them after only 12 years.
  - mac-mc 1y ago
    very weather and mileage dependent, if you live in a fair weather place and garage it, it can last much longer
    - dismalaf 1y ago
      I live in Canada, have a 15 year old Hyundai Elantra that sees -40 degrees every winter, I ski 50+ days per year so it sees a ton of snowy roads, and the car has had exactly zero mechanical issues. I've only replaced brake pads, rotors just this year, and tires.
      - willhslade 1y ago
        I had a 2009 Elantra Touring and it just gave up the ghost last year. The frame was unsafe great car though.
      - mac-mc 1y ago
        The top 3 things about bad weather places is water / moisture, dirt / sand and road salt. That causes extended wear and body damage over time which leads to cars not lasting as long as a population in the area. It's not the cold and if you keep it dry, clean, sealed and well maintained then you can avoid the issue, it's just a lot of work and nobody does it.
jauntywundrkind 1y ago
> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. What piddling nonsense. Plenty of outrage in replies. Here's a recent article with some specific figures: After more than 250,000 miles, Ford Mustang Mach-E still has 92% battery life. https://electrek.co/2025/07/22/after-250000-miles-this-ford-mustang-mach-e-still-has-92-battery-life/ https://electrek.co/2025/07/22/after-250000-miles-this-ford-... Batteries are rarely dead, they just loose capacity. (And quite slowly at that!!) Resale goes down if you decide there's not enough capacity left and want to sell, but the car is still fine. Eventually, yes, someone might opt to battery swap: for a Tesla that's currently ~$10-20k depending. But in another 10 years? It's quite likely battery prices will have continued to decline, & costs will be less. Flipping the bozo bit on this guy.
- bestnameever 1y ago
  That 2022 car has maybe 12 more years before the battery will require replacing, assuming it degrades 1% a year so hopefully prices do drop.
  - spacedcowboy 1y ago
    I drove 65,000 miles in my ICE car over a period of ~16 years. If the Mustang has 92% left after 250,000 miles driven, I suspect a second hand EV would provably work for me. But I’d never buy a Tesla car. Because of Musk.
  - jauntywundrkind 1y ago
    I feel like there's a lot of people who'd be totally fine with an only 240 mile (80%) range car instead of a 300 mile (100%) range car. There's probably plenty of people fine with a 150 mile range car too (50%)!! We don't need every car to be good at long road trips. Yes, some people will want to either replace the battery or get a newer car. But I think, right now, there's wayyy too much fear over battery longjevity, and that folks are way off base about how many miles a pack is good for. And ideally, the expected battery life should be a competitive factor in car buying: Teslas seem to be down almost 2x as much after 250k miles (85% rather than 92%). Different batteries will have different battery lifecycles, and ideally, consumers can help nudge the car makers into caring more, but there needs to be information available for generate that demand-pressure. And also crucial: without battery lifecycle information, FUD is going to dissuade a lot of would-be buyers!
thelastgallon 1y ago
> ICE used cars are often in relative good working condition. Yes! ICE cars have 10,000 moving parts, and also chambers for burning stuff, lots of oil and residual burnt stuff. ICE cars work exactly like the human body, exercise helps live longer. EV cars have nearly no moving parts, they get obese and die sooner.
cyberax 1y ago
> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. No, they aren't. Here are stats for actual Tesla battery degradation: https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-d... So after 200,000 miles or 10 years, you're on average expecting 70% of the nominal battery capacity. My car is at 150k miles, 8 years, and 85% capacity. You can expect more than 300,000 miles on the odometer before the battery dips below 66%. And mind you, even then the car can work just fine if you don't _need_ range.
whatever1 1y ago
Apart from the fact that electric vehicle technology is evolving rapidly, making older models significantly inferior to newer ones, the other significant concern is the concentrated risk associated with used batteries. While various issues can arise in a used Camry, none of these individually can match the cost of battery replacement. While I can manage a few thousand-dollar service bills, I certainly cannot afford a twenty thousand-dollar bill for a used car.
PlunderBunny 1y ago
I think we’re at the point where the lifetime of a battery in an EV just isn’t an important consideration: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/heres-one-way-we-know-that-an-evs-battery-will-last-the-cars-lifetime/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/heres-one-way-we-know-t...
bryanlarsen 1y ago
EV batteries last 20 years. https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/ https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/

by chii 1y ago

rapsey 1y ago

They are not dead, EV batteries actually last a very long time. Over here in europe there is actually a company that will repair your battery and Tesla cars are great for that.

bryanlarsen 1y ago

Sure, if you define 85% of original capacity to be dead.

hvb2 1y ago

> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. A lot of these used to be leased cars. Why would those batteries be dead? And if they are under the 70% mark then Tesla warranty should cover that. See https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty

jfoster 1y ago
An 8 year warranty seems fine for new vehicles, but doesn't help much with selling used vehicles that are 6 or 7 years old.
- senectus1 1y ago
  my cheap chinese MG4 with and LFP has a 10 year warranty...
benjiro 1y ago
Never owned a Tesla, but the amount of horror stories involved with Tesla, its often a hard battle to get warranty, especially around the battery when it involves a second hand vehicle. Even first owner vehicles are often a mixed experience. I assumed you never opened the link you point to, as its literally in the first line very clearly "Your new Tesla" (as in, not a second hand vehicle). Ooooo, fun, look a bit lower in the actual model info. Your vehicle need to return to the first registered area to gain warranty for a resell. Here in Europe we see often cars being sold that come from Spain or other area's, in Germany. By that contract condition, it need to go back to Spain for a battery fix. lol Tesla Vehicle warranty is at discretion of Tesla bla bla ... Battery max 8 years, or 240.000km, ... Lots of other exceptions to that warranty. And if you can apply the warranty, your also not getting a new battery, but a refurb based upon the whole description. Fyi: Lithium batteries drop in capacity faster and faster when they go past the 80% mark. But legally, Tesla can shove anything in there. A 100% battery, a 80% battery, ... you get the point. With a ICE engine, even on rental cars, you tend to get the same millage out of them, as a new one. Most issues are often more on the clutch or turbo, both relative cheap repairs compared to a battery pack. People have been warned years ago, that second hand market for EV cars is going to be a issue because of the battery. Now we are seeing the effect on the pricing.
- hvb2 1y ago
  I believe you misinterpreted that piece about area. Area there is Europe. Warranties on us cars do not apply in Europe. Source: https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/...

jfoster 1y ago

This seems to happen with other types of electronics, too. I think many avoid used laptops and phones partly due to the expectation that the overall condition won't be good.

incone123 1y ago
You're right. Amazon UK has a great selection of used ThinkPads with worn out batteries. Fine if you have no plan to use it away from mains power. If something has a battery, I would rather buy new.

runeks 1y ago

> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. Source please.

jfoster 1y ago
It's an exaggeration but you shouldn't need a source for older batteries being in worse condition than brand new batteries. Perhaps if battery condition could be measured and reported on well, used EVs could be more appropriately valued.
- mirsadm 1y ago
  On many EVs (including Tesla's) you can measure the health of the battery. How are you going to measure the health of an ICE engine or transmission?
  - mlhpdx 1y ago
    Mechanics have been doing that for about 100 years now. It’s not complicated to judge the “health” of an engine. Compression ratio, exhaust composition, even just the sound of it to a trained ear. While the cost of replacing a battery in an EV is high, it’s not very different than an engine and transmission.
    - bestnameever 1y ago
      I determine when to change the oil in my car based on how the engine sounds.
    - YZF 1y ago
      Compression ratio basically just measures the state of the valves and the piston rings. There are many other parts that can wear out. I've owned many ICE vehicles, cars and motorcycles- you're taking some risk when you buy a used one. If it's an owner that kept meticulous service records, and they're all according to the manufacturer recommendations, and the car is inspected by a good mechanic, then it's likely to be ok. But even then you just never know, they fail on some curve. Lots of aluminum engines end up developing some warpage and head gasket issues. Transmissions aren't as easy to check, you can look at the fluid but if it's been recently replaced that won't tell you much. You can analyze engine oil but nobody does that when purchasing a vehicle (and you don't know when the oil has been replaced).

jchw 1y ago

Hmmm. The Cybertruck has only been on sale since 2023, so presumably it shouldn't be impacted by this issue, but it seems like it still is (moreso than other used cars at least.) Being the most distinctive Tesla car there is, I expect a lot of that does come down to damage to the brand...

devmor 1y ago
I don't think we should consider the Cybertruck alongside the other Tesla vehicles in this particular comparison. Brand aside, it's a low quality vehicle that gets outclassed by both EV and ICE trucks at half (or less, depending on configuration) of its MSRP - all of which have a better reliability track record.

conradev 1y ago

Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs? I own a Toyota 4Runner which is known for holding its value long term and is super reliable… but I do have to change fluids regularly, for example. Engine oil, transfer case fluid, etc. Regenerative braking is supposed to be nicer to the actual brakes, too, even though an EV with the same capacity is generally heavier.

cma 1y ago
I think EVs need more tire changes and rotations from the added weight and the tires are a bit more expensive.
- otherme123 1y ago
  Engineering Explained youtuber made recently a video selling his Tesla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLrDaV6nkE), and all his mantainance costs for 60k miles are quite low: about $600, taking out damage from hitting a pothole hard. The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k
  - chronal4720 1y ago
    > The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k Not in California. Many people charge exclusively at superchargers and pay $42+ for 250 miles of range ($0.60+/kWh peak hours after work). That’s 6-8 gallons in an ICE car. At $5/gallon this makes EV supercharging more expensive than gasoline.
    - hvb2 1y ago
      When buying an ev, knowing you can charge at home should be part of your decision. Also, I've never seen 60 cents a kWh at a supercharger in California. 50 cents, plenty of times. But that's the most I've seen. Maybe that's some specific part of LA or something.
      - 1y ago

akmarinov 1y ago

> EV used cars are basically dead batteries Lol, no, they’re not. The average EV is likely in a better condition than the average ICE, due to the maintenance requirements on both

danielheath 1y ago

I have looked at a few 2012 Nissan leafs, out of curiosity. Virtually all of them have over half their original battery life. That’s low enough to be restrictive in a car, but far from dead.

nothercastle 1y ago
A lot of the cheap old ones have 35-60 miles of range. Enough to get to town but not back
- geerlingguy 1y ago
  But fine for a local errand car, at the right price. And there are a couple places working on replacement battery packs.
hvb2 1y ago
Keep in mind that those are dinosaurs in the ev world. Battery is air cooled and can't really fast charge. They're great commuter cars though if the range is enough or you charge at work Source, I have one :)
kedikedi 1y ago
And if it’s the very first gen of the Leaf, then, as far as I know, they don’t have thermal management for the batteries. So it greatly stresses them both for discharge and charge and that manifests as reduced capacity. Lithium cells are happy when they are around 20-25 degrees Celsius (about 75F?) but they don’t enjoy when it’s hot or cold. Likewise, they don’t enjoy full charges and discharges which I’d guess more probable in a smaller range car. All in all, the first gen Leaf might not be a good benchmark for a more modern EV. Many things should be better now.

mirsadm 1y ago

Not sure if you're being intentionally dishonest. It makes no sense for ICE cars to be in good working condition and EVs to have dead batteries. If anything I'd be much more worried about an engine/transmission dying in an ICE car because you need to know how the car was driven and maintained by the previous owner(s).

nothercastle 1y ago
The power bus transformer/controller is essentially the EV equivalent of transmission. It can die and also be very expensive
chronal4720 1y ago
> If anything I'd be much more worried about an engine/transmission dying in an ICE car because you need to know how the car was driven and maintained by the previous owner(s). ICE car dies after X miles are driven. EV car dies after X years have elapsed, regardless of mileage.
- croes 1y ago
  Nope. Battery life isn’t simply dependent on time passed. Al lot is based on how it’s charged and discharged

Joel_Mckay 1y ago

>EV used cars are basically dead batteries True, a local club has an Electric 1913 Detroit that ran for 78 years on the same set of Edison cells. These cells were replaced due to leakage rather than capacity loss by the club re-builders a few decades back. Think about the total distance traveled compared to a modern EV. YMMV was never so true. The battery is the car for most EV, and given most manufacturers adversarial relationship with external repair shops it is effectively e-waste in 8 to 14 years. =3

motorest 1y ago

> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. A quick googling shows some sources claiming EVs are in general designed with a planned service life or around 10 years. That's basically the same planned service life for ICE cars, which some sources claim it tends to be 12 years or 200k miles. One source suggests battery capacity in EVs drop less than 2% per year on average. These numbers seem to contradict you, but you show your data so that we can look into it.

irrational 1y ago
I always keep my ICE cars for at least 25 years. It is crazy to me that people are getting rid of them after only 12 years.
- mac-mc 1y ago
  very weather and mileage dependent, if you live in a fair weather place and garage it, it can last much longer
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    I live in Canada, have a 15 year old Hyundai Elantra that sees -40 degrees every winter, I ski 50+ days per year so it sees a ton of snowy roads, and the car has had exactly zero mechanical issues. I've only replaced brake pads, rotors just this year, and tires.
    - willhslade 1y ago
      I had a 2009 Elantra Touring and it just gave up the ghost last year. The frame was unsafe great car though.
    - mac-mc 1y ago
      The top 3 things about bad weather places is water / moisture, dirt / sand and road salt. That causes extended wear and body damage over time which leads to cars not lasting as long as a population in the area. It's not the cold and if you keep it dry, clean, sealed and well maintained then you can avoid the issue, it's just a lot of work and nobody does it.

jauntywundrkind 1y ago

> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. What piddling nonsense. Plenty of outrage in replies. Here's a recent article with some specific figures: After more than 250,000 miles, Ford Mustang Mach-E still has 92% battery life. https://electrek.co/2025/07/22/after-250000-miles-this-ford-mustang-mach-e-still-has-92-battery-life/ https://electrek.co/2025/07/22/after-250000-miles-this-ford-... Batteries are rarely dead, they just loose capacity. (And quite slowly at that!!) Resale goes down if you decide there's not enough capacity left and want to sell, but the car is still fine. Eventually, yes, someone might opt to battery swap: for a Tesla that's currently ~$10-20k depending. But in another 10 years? It's quite likely battery prices will have continued to decline, & costs will be less. Flipping the bozo bit on this guy.

bestnameever 1y ago
That 2022 car has maybe 12 more years before the battery will require replacing, assuming it degrades 1% a year so hopefully prices do drop.
- spacedcowboy 1y ago
  I drove 65,000 miles in my ICE car over a period of ~16 years. If the Mustang has 92% left after 250,000 miles driven, I suspect a second hand EV would provably work for me. But I’d never buy a Tesla car. Because of Musk.
- jauntywundrkind 1y ago
  I feel like there's a lot of people who'd be totally fine with an only 240 mile (80%) range car instead of a 300 mile (100%) range car. There's probably plenty of people fine with a 150 mile range car too (50%)!! We don't need every car to be good at long road trips. Yes, some people will want to either replace the battery or get a newer car. But I think, right now, there's wayyy too much fear over battery longjevity, and that folks are way off base about how many miles a pack is good for. And ideally, the expected battery life should be a competitive factor in car buying: Teslas seem to be down almost 2x as much after 250k miles (85% rather than 92%). Different batteries will have different battery lifecycles, and ideally, consumers can help nudge the car makers into caring more, but there needs to be information available for generate that demand-pressure. And also crucial: without battery lifecycle information, FUD is going to dissuade a lot of would-be buyers!

thelastgallon 1y ago

> ICE used cars are often in relative good working condition. Yes! ICE cars have 10,000 moving parts, and also chambers for burning stuff, lots of oil and residual burnt stuff. ICE cars work exactly like the human body, exercise helps live longer. EV cars have nearly no moving parts, they get obese and die sooner.

cyberax 1y ago

> EV used cars are basically dead batteries. No, they aren't. Here are stats for actual Tesla battery degradation: https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-d... So after 200,000 miles or 10 years, you're on average expecting 70% of the nominal battery capacity. My car is at 150k miles, 8 years, and 85% capacity. You can expect more than 300,000 miles on the odometer before the battery dips below 66%. And mind you, even then the car can work just fine if you don't _need_ range.

whatever1 1y ago

Apart from the fact that electric vehicle technology is evolving rapidly, making older models significantly inferior to newer ones, the other significant concern is the concentrated risk associated with used batteries. While various issues can arise in a used Camry, none of these individually can match the cost of battery replacement. While I can manage a few thousand-dollar service bills, I certainly cannot afford a twenty thousand-dollar bill for a used car.

PlunderBunny 1y ago

I think we’re at the point where the lifetime of a battery in an EV just isn’t an important consideration: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/heres-one-way-we-know-that-an-evs-battery-will-last-the-cars-lifetime/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/heres-one-way-we-know-t...

bryanlarsen 1y ago

EV batteries last 20 years. https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/ https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/