8 ms·

Laptop Support and Usability (LSU): July 2025 Report

98 points by grahamjperrin 1y ago

tlhunter 1y ago
FreeBSD is the first thing I try to install on a new laptop. Once I play around for an hour I install Linux for the hardware support and move on. I can't wait until the experience is good enough that I can stay on it.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  What advantages does FreeBSD bring on a laptop versus Linux?
  - mouse_ 1y ago
    Anecdotally speaking, in terms of battery life, BSDs (+macOS) > Windows > Linux. Linux does not play nice with batteries.
    - myaccountonhn 1y ago
      I suspect it has improved. I'm getting 8 hours out of my 5 year old T480s and I recall getting 4 hours or so when I bought it.
      - rootnod3 1y ago
        With which battery? Cause on my T480 with FreeBSD I can ramp it to about 14 hours.
        myaccountonhn 1y ago
        Recently installed this one https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-battery https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-batter... Does the T480 have that much better battery? Maybe I'm doing something wrong haha.
        rootnod3 1y ago
        That is the internal battery. Yeah, the T480 has two. An internal and a swappable. In total 96Wh.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      Why could that be? Maybe the Linux distro you choose was too bloated and caused battery drain?
      - rurban 1y ago
        Because of no proper battery management, which was only recently merged.
        tracker1 1y ago
        It seems like the 6.16 and 6.17 kernels should allow for some pretty good improvements on battery and sleep mgt across more hardware from what I understand.
    - t-3 1y ago
      That's not my experience at all. Macs are great on battery, but BSDs are not, they are by far the worst. Linux usually does ok, often better than windows, at least once properly set up. I only run BSD on my "never leave home/stay tethered" laptops because they only get 3-4 hours where Linux will get 8-12.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
    First-class ZFS support is pretty compelling for any usecase.
    - grahamjperrin 1y ago
      Kubuntu 25.04 here, root on OpenZFS thanks to the installer for Ubuntu. How is OpenZFS second class on Linux? <https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/ https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/> is not perceptibly FreeBSD-first.
      - SvenL 1y ago
        Cool, one of the best features of ZFS on FreeBSD is to boot into a snapshot. ZFS boot environments are really cool.
        chungy 1y ago
        You can get that with ZFS Boot Menu on Linux too. It was inspired by the FreeBSD boot loader.
      - vermaden 1y ago
        Root on ZFS is not a problem. While You can spend some hours installing Linux with ZFSBootMenu and LUKS encrypted Root on ZFS - there are ZERO Linux distributions that allow ZFS Boot Environments out of the box. That is the reason 'why' Linux is not the first class ZFS citizen.
        grahamjperrin 1y ago
        LUKS-encrypted root on ZFS does not take hours. I chose encryption when I installed the OS.
        vermaden 1y ago
        When You make research how to make it for the first time - it can - if you want to check at least several different guides ... but that covers only the encryption part. There is also the ZFSBootMenu part ... If you have done this at least once - noted the commands, etc. - it will take shorter - but never shorter then FreeBSD 'Auto (ZFS)' option in the bsdinstall(8) installer where you just select the disk on which it needs to happen and hit [ENTER] key.
  - philjohn 1y ago
    Not OP, but off the top of my head, it's a complete OS, kernel and user land are released as a whole. I last ran it about two decades ago, so it's been a while.
    - loeg 1y ago
      The browser and desktop and terminal you'll inevitably want to use aren't any more part of that "complete" OS than they are on Linux (and in many ways FreeBSD Ports is more immature / less well-integrated than Linux packages).
      - grahamjperrin 1y ago
        LSU context: the completeness is out of scope. Current aims include enhancement of the installer for FreeBSD; KDE Plasma and applications as an option.
    - grahamjperrin 1y ago
      Yep, the coherence is a strong point. Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. The base system, FreeBSD, packaged. The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. When I force something with my eyes shut (ignoring warnings), I do expect the unexpected as a result of my ignorance ;-)
      - BSDobelix 1y ago
        >Maybe I'm old-fashioned. No your not, even in the Sun-Solaris time they asked themself why rm should be able to delete /. >The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Don't make a function no one uses (because it has no function) but is able destroy the system. Compare it to a aircraft, shutdown your fuel has probably a emergency function, make a button to instantly destroy your aircraft has no real function nor will it ever be used (aka pkg remove -af). >Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. That's not predictable but stupidity, try to remove all pkg/Application/Apps from MacOS, Windows, OpenBSD, NetBSD or Android...will the system boot or not? All those operating-systems make a clear distinction from the base-system to "apps" and the system should ALWAYS boot to a state where you can interact with it and so should FreeBSD. There is not a single system (no OS and no living being) in this world wheres there is a function to destroy itself would not be called a error (the worst possible one) But hey lets tell Linus (from Linus tech-tips, a Linux beginner) it's your fault because you forgot to read 100 lines, what a wannabe elitist think, there are ZERO point's, that a system should be able to make itself not booting anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs
  - vermaden 1y ago
    If you just want a browser and notepad - then ANY system would do - even Android on X86 PC. If you want a powerful development/work environment - and you do like what and how Linux provides here - use Linux - but as I was not satisfied with what/how Linux provided I looked somewhere else and I landed in FreeBSD. Here are some of the reasons and conclusions I came to after using FreeBSD (and also Linux/AIX/HP-UX/Solaris in various jobs) for about 20 years. Here: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/
    - crims0n 1y ago
      That was a good read, thank you.
      - vermaden 1y ago
        Thanks.
    - umbra07 1y ago
      Have you ever tried Fedora Silverblue? It seems like it would match FreeBSD's advantages, as listed in the first section of your blog.
      - vermaden 1y ago
        I have tried multiple Linux system and besides faster WiFi I never find what I look for on the Linux land - but thank You for suggestion. Also - even if I would be forced to use Linux - I would probably setup it with ZFSBootMenu and Root on ZFS - I believe Fedora does not allow any of these?
  - loeg 1y ago
    None. If you have a particular fondness for FreeBSD and its particular set of behaviors: great. Then use it. If you really like jails, and for some reason need them on a laptop, and really don't like Linux containers, then, great.
  - spauldo 1y ago
    It's not so much about advantages as it is about making the FreeBSD laptop experience better. A lot of people like FreeBSD on the desktop but use Linux on laptops because Linux has better support for those. If you're not the type of person who wants to run FreeBSD as a workstation, none of this will matter to you.
- grahamjperrin 1y ago
  Not exactly a new laptop, but a few days ago I spent a similar period (around an hour) toying with FreeBSD on an HP EliteBook 660 16" (G11). Very rough notes – things were rushed (squeezing as much as possible into the end of a Friday afternoon): https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebook_660_16/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebo...
- pjmlp 1y ago
  I keep waiting for the mythical day I can walk into a random computer store, and pick a laptop on display with either FreeBSD, or most common Linux distros, already pre-installed and 100% supported hardware. Last time I was able to do that was with netbooks, and even those were mostly OEM specific distros without updates, if we wanted to actually have 100% supported hardware.
throw0101a 1y ago
"CURRENT" is scheduled become 15.0 by the end of the year: * https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/schedule/ https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/schedule/ * https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/ https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/
- cperciva 1y ago
  Technically it's already 15.0, but 15.0-CURRENT is scheduled to branch off 15.0-STABLE, which then branches off 15.0-RELEASE.
LAC-Tech 1y ago
I could do FreeBSD on my laptop I think. I don't play games, and I've been wanting to play around with kqueue. Is it sort of like OpenBSD? I liked their manpages and their built in server thing (httpd). or is it completely different...
- rootnod3 1y ago
  Man pages are close enough to OpenBSD. Httpd is there, but renamed to obhttpd. There are some differences between PF and relayd for example, but not too difficult to switch.
- nosioptar 1y ago
  One big difference is OpenBSD is easier. For example, I installed FreeBSD on an old laptop and had to fiddle with building Xorg to get a GUI. Same laptop on OpenBSD just worked after running the installer.
  - cnst 1y ago
    Yup, that's because X is part of OpenBSD base system, called xenocara, whereas in FreeBSD, you have to use the Ports tree to install Xorg. Ports tree in general is a great way to install third-party software, but not necessarily for Xorg. You still install KDE or GNOME through ports/packages on both systems, but X being more tightly integrated with the base system has benefits in reducing complexity for the rest of the components.
  - LAC-Tech 1y ago
    is FreeBSD any worse than a minimalist linux distro like Arch in this regard?
    - grahamjperrin 1y ago
      https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_compared_to_other_distributions#The_BSDs https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_compared_to_other_dist... exists, but probably does not answer your question. For Arch users of KDE Plasma and applications, are essential packages ever missing? <https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE#Installation https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE#Installation> From https://gist.github.com/grahamperrin/307b8cdef5d4dcd30f5fdc4cdea03c72 https://gist.github.com/grahamperrin/307b8cdef5d4dcd30f5fdc4... for FreeBSD: > It's not unusual for a Tier 1 platform to have no package for a wanted desktop environment. Two platforms are at this tier: … For example, kde for FreeBSD 15.0-CURRENT was recently missing for a few days for AMD64; is still missing for aarch64 (64-bit ARMv8). This is not to criticise the maintainers of packages or repos. I do understand the constraints. The absence of an essential meta package is, inescapably, an impedance when aiming to test installers and upgrades, especially with pkgbase.
jcgrillo 1y ago
I'm currently running FreeBSD on a gen3 Intel T14. It's been excellent so far, however one minor annoyance has been S3 suspend/resume. Well, suspend works fine, but resuming triggers a restart. I'm hoping the recent S0ix work might fix that.
- grahamjperrin 1y ago
  Which version of FreeBSD, exactly? freebsd-version -kru ; uname -aKU pkg repos -el | sort -f pkg repos -e | grep url I'm not familiar with the meaning of T14, sorry. Does the Wi-Fi hardware use iwlwifi(4)? A kernel panic when waking from sleep might relate to the graphics driver.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
    > I'm not familiar with the meaning of T14, sorry. They probably are telling you the model of laptop; ThinkPad T14
  - jcgrillo 1y ago
    ~ freebsd-version -kru 14.3-RELEASE 14.3-RELEASE 14.3-RELEASE-p1 ~ uname -aKU FreeBSD t14 14.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 14.3-RELEASE releng/14.3-n271432-8c9ce319fef7 GENERIC amd64 1403000 1403000 ~ pkg repos -el | sort -f FreeBSD FreeBSD-kmods ~ pkg repos -e | grep url url : "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/quarterly", url : "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/kmods_quarterly_3", ~ sysctl net.wlan.devices net.wlan.devices: iwlwifi0 ~ pciconf -vl | grep -B4 VGA vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0: class=0x030000 rev=0x0c hdr=0x00 vendor=0x8086 device=0x46a6 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x22e8 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = 'Alder Lake-P GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]' class = display subclass = VGA ~ kldstat | grep i915 15 1 0xffffffff838f1000 1e0228 i915kms.ko Sorry I wasn't clearer before, the laptop is a Lenovo Thinkpad T14 gen3 with an Intel CPU. I poked around in logs a bit but I haven't found anything indicating an error yet. EDIT: just started reading Ch. 10 on Kernel Debugging[1], will try some things and see if I can extract any useful information. The handbook is so great. [1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/developers-handbook/kernel...
jaypatelani 1y ago
https://freebsdfoundation.org/blog/software-bill-of-materials-sbom-for-freebsd-project/ https://freebsdfoundation.org/blog/software-bill-of-material...
doublerabbit 1y ago
I have been how very surprised how well supported FreeBSD has been on my MSI Modern laptop. zfs and boot encryption make it perfect.
vermaden 1y ago
Earlier I used FreeBSD on ThinkPad W520 (because keyboard): - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-thinkpad-w520/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-th... .. and recently moved to FrankenPad T25 that is based on T480 (because keyboard): - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/06/26/freebsd-14-3-on-frankenpad-t25/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/06/26/freebsd-14-3-on-fr... I do everything on FreeBSD including work. Some of the topics I covered: - Unlock Laptop with Phone - Conferencing and Meetings - Netflix Signal Telegram - Network Management with network.sh - FreeBSD Power Management - FreeBSD Suspend/Resume - Oldschool Gaming on FreeBSD - Minecraft Server in FreeBSD Jails Container - Secure Containerized Browser - Print on FreeBSD - Scan on FreeBSD - Sensible Firefox Setup - Operate Android Device on FreeBSD - FreeBSD Alongside Windows To just name a few ... because I am slowly closing to 200 of these FreeBSD related articles. % ls ~/misc/verblog/POSTS | wc -l 175 Regards, vermaden
- jcgrillo 1y ago
  Your blog was super helpful getting my machine set up, thanks!
  - vermaden 1y ago
    Thanks.
- mcflubbins 1y ago
  > Operate Android Device on FreeBSD Can you clarify by what this means? Does that mean running Android in an emulator or something else? Thanks
  - vermaden 1y ago
    All the details are here: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2024/10/29/operate-android-device-on-freebsd/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2024/10/29/operate-android-de...
    - 1y ago
net01 1y ago
Seeing modern standby is pretty insane in such a short time; it was one of the most attended talks in the BSD talks at FOSDEM: https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6390-wake-up-freebsd-implementing-modern-standby-with-s0ix/ https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6390-wake... Also pretty impressive because Aymeric started as a GSoC contributor and is now sponsored to work on BSD by the foundation.
- da_chicken 1y ago
  "Short time"? Look, I appreciate that you mean the development time for the feature to be added, but S0+network was introduced over a decade ago. Early versions were in Windows 8. It shipped in Windows 8.1 in 2013. Your link is from 2025 where they're talking about S3 support no longer existing at the hardware level. I'm really happy BSD is getting support, but they literally waited until hardware for the deprecated standard to cease to exist before implementing the new support. That's not a short amount of time.
  - wlesieutre 1y ago
    If this is what Microsoft called "connected standby" it's worth noting that the early implementation of this even on Surface hardware with Windows 8 was hot garbage. It liked to wake itself up in your bag and completely drain the battery while cooking the computer from lack of ventilation. I made a point of always turning the Surface the whole way off any time I packed it up because it was so unreliable. Best case the battery drained like 5% per hour. Hopefully the initial BSD implementation is better than Windows did.
    - da_chicken 1y ago
      Oh, no doubt it was hot garbage in 8. It was slightly improved in 8.1, and there were real improvements in the system in Win10 that really made it work better. Win10 was the first good version. But Win10 is still over 10 years old. Win10 is end of life in about 2 months.
      - 1y ago
e12e 1y ago
Does anyone know if there's been any efforts towards running freeBSD on arm64 laptops? On Linux there's been some effort: https://www.linaro.org/blog/linux-on-snapdragon-x-elite/ https://www.linaro.org/blog/linux-on-snapdragon-x-elite/ Ed: hn discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44699393 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44699393
- rjsw 1y ago
  The GPU drivers for Snapdragon are GPL 2.0 only, makes it hard to use in FreeBSD. The drivers for GPUs used in X86 systems are dual licenced so can be used outside Linux.
oiWecsio 1y ago
s0ix is another great example that the world, or a bit more precisely, "general purpose hardware", has been going to absolute fucking shit. Who the hell needs this crap? S3 used to be just perfect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InstantGo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InstantGo > [...] a Microsoft specification for Windows 8 (and later) hardware and software that aims to bring smartphone-type power management capabilities to the PC platform [...] allows the operating system to continue performing background tasks, such as updating content from apps, when a device is not being used [...] We've all needed this like a big fucking kick in the groin. "Modern standby" my ass. Microsoft has great firmware engineers, but the functionality they design, and then mandate, so that Windows can have its rotten tentacles into the guts of the firmware, is absolutely disgusting. Technically well implemented, but the goal is usually terrible.
- rollcat 1y ago
  They're of course trying to match Apple, except Apple has 100% vertical integration, from CPU cores to apps. This is the real challenge with "general purpose hardware". A good product is distinguished by attention to detail.
- vermaden 1y ago
  Yep. The 's0ix' is bullshit. S3 suspend/resume worked just fine. ... but in the end of the day what more can You do? I would say 'vote with your wallet' ... but that also does not work anymore. Take a look at laptop keyboard layouts [1] ... does not matter if MNT, Framework, KDE, ThinkPad, ... whatever - does not matter - NO ONE make 7-row keyboards in laptops anymore ... we are fucked :[ [1] https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/epitaph-to-laptops/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/epitaph-to-laptops...
  - grahamjperrin 1y ago
    > 's0ix' is bullshit. False. S0iX is not bullshit. > S3 suspend/resume worked just fine. Not for me.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
grahamjperrin 1y ago
Side note: I wasn't aware that the title here was truncated. Sorry. It should have been: Laptop Support and Usability (LSU): July 2025 report from the FreeBSD Foundation

98 points by grahamjperrin 1y ago

FreeBSD is the first thing I try to install on a new laptop. Once I play around for an hour I install Linux for the hardware support and move on. I can't wait until the experience is good enough that I can stay on it.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
What advantages does FreeBSD bring on a laptop versus Linux?
- mouse_ 1y ago
  Anecdotally speaking, in terms of battery life, BSDs (+macOS) > Windows > Linux. Linux does not play nice with batteries.
  - myaccountonhn 1y ago
    I suspect it has improved. I'm getting 8 hours out of my 5 year old T480s and I recall getting 4 hours or so when I bought it.
    - rootnod3 1y ago
      With which battery? Cause on my T480 with FreeBSD I can ramp it to about 14 hours.
      - myaccountonhn 1y ago
        Recently installed this one https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-battery https://www.ifixit.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t480s-batter... Does the T480 have that much better battery? Maybe I'm doing something wrong haha.
        rootnod3 1y ago
        That is the internal battery. Yeah, the T480 has two. An internal and a swappable. In total 96Wh.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Why could that be? Maybe the Linux distro you choose was too bloated and caused battery drain?
    - rurban 1y ago
      Because of no proper battery management, which was only recently merged.
      - tracker1 1y ago
        It seems like the 6.16 and 6.17 kernels should allow for some pretty good improvements on battery and sleep mgt across more hardware from what I understand.
  - t-3 1y ago
    That's not my experience at all. Macs are great on battery, but BSDs are not, they are by far the worst. Linux usually does ok, often better than windows, at least once properly set up. I only run BSD on my "never leave home/stay tethered" laptops because they only get 3-4 hours where Linux will get 8-12.
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  First-class ZFS support is pretty compelling for any usecase.
  - grahamjperrin 1y ago
    Kubuntu 25.04 here, root on OpenZFS thanks to the installer for Ubuntu. How is OpenZFS second class on Linux? <https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/ https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/> is not perceptibly FreeBSD-first.
    - SvenL 1y ago
      Cool, one of the best features of ZFS on FreeBSD is to boot into a snapshot. ZFS boot environments are really cool.
      - chungy 1y ago
        You can get that with ZFS Boot Menu on Linux too. It was inspired by the FreeBSD boot loader.
    - vermaden 1y ago
      Root on ZFS is not a problem. While You can spend some hours installing Linux with ZFSBootMenu and LUKS encrypted Root on ZFS - there are ZERO Linux distributions that allow ZFS Boot Environments out of the box. That is the reason 'why' Linux is not the first class ZFS citizen.
      - grahamjperrin 1y ago
        LUKS-encrypted root on ZFS does not take hours. I chose encryption when I installed the OS.
        vermaden 1y ago
        When You make research how to make it for the first time - it can - if you want to check at least several different guides ... but that covers only the encryption part. There is also the ZFSBootMenu part ... If you have done this at least once - noted the commands, etc. - it will take shorter - but never shorter then FreeBSD 'Auto (ZFS)' option in the bsdinstall(8) installer where you just select the disk on which it needs to happen and hit [ENTER] key.
- philjohn 1y ago
  Not OP, but off the top of my head, it's a complete OS, kernel and user land are released as a whole. I last ran it about two decades ago, so it's been a while.
  - loeg 1y ago
    The browser and desktop and terminal you'll inevitably want to use aren't any more part of that "complete" OS than they are on Linux (and in many ways FreeBSD Ports is more immature / less well-integrated than Linux packages).
    - grahamjperrin 1y ago
      LSU context: the completeness is out of scope. Current aims include enhancement of the installer for FreeBSD; KDE Plasma and applications as an option.
  - grahamjperrin 1y ago
    Yep, the coherence is a strong point. Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. The base system, FreeBSD, packaged. The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. When I force something with my eyes shut (ignoring warnings), I do expect the unexpected as a result of my ignorance ;-)
    - BSDobelix 1y ago
      >Maybe I'm old-fashioned. No your not, even in the Sun-Solaris time they asked themself why rm should be able to delete /. >The complaints are about the effect of wilful force. Don't make a function no one uses (because it has no function) but is able destroy the system. Compare it to a aircraft, shutdown your fuel has probably a emergency function, make a button to instantly destroy your aircraft has no real function nor will it ever be used (aka pkg remove -af). >Unfortunately, we now have a few people complaining about predictable, consistent behaviour with packaging that is coherent. That's not predictable but stupidity, try to remove all pkg/Application/Apps from MacOS, Windows, OpenBSD, NetBSD or Android...will the system boot or not? All those operating-systems make a clear distinction from the base-system to "apps" and the system should ALWAYS boot to a state where you can interact with it and so should FreeBSD. There is not a single system (no OS and no living being) in this world wheres there is a function to destroy itself would not be called a error (the worst possible one) But hey lets tell Linus (from Linus tech-tips, a Linux beginner) it's your fault because you forgot to read 100 lines, what a wannabe elitist think, there are ZERO point's, that a system should be able to make itself not booting anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4L8Oci_2Bs
- vermaden 1y ago
  If you just want a browser and notepad - then ANY system would do - even Android on X86 PC. If you want a powerful development/work environment - and you do like what and how Linux provides here - use Linux - but as I was not satisfied with what/how Linux provided I looked somewhere else and I landed in FreeBSD. Here are some of the reasons and conclusions I came to after using FreeBSD (and also Linux/AIX/HP-UX/Solaris in various jobs) for about 20 years. Here: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2020/09/07/quare-freebsd/
  - crims0n 1y ago
    That was a good read, thank you.
    - vermaden 1y ago
      Thanks.
  - umbra07 1y ago
    Have you ever tried Fedora Silverblue? It seems like it would match FreeBSD's advantages, as listed in the first section of your blog.
    - vermaden 1y ago
      I have tried multiple Linux system and besides faster WiFi I never find what I look for on the Linux land - but thank You for suggestion. Also - even if I would be forced to use Linux - I would probably setup it with ZFSBootMenu and Root on ZFS - I believe Fedora does not allow any of these?
- loeg 1y ago
  None. If you have a particular fondness for FreeBSD and its particular set of behaviors: great. Then use it. If you really like jails, and for some reason need them on a laptop, and really don't like Linux containers, then, great.
- spauldo 1y ago
  It's not so much about advantages as it is about making the FreeBSD laptop experience better. A lot of people like FreeBSD on the desktop but use Linux on laptops because Linux has better support for those. If you're not the type of person who wants to run FreeBSD as a workstation, none of this will matter to you.
grahamjperrin 1y ago
Not exactly a new laptop, but a few days ago I spent a similar period (around an hour) toying with FreeBSD on an HP EliteBook 660 16" (G11). Very rough notes – things were rushed (squeezing as much as possible into the end of a Friday afternoon): https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebook_660_16/ https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/1mey64f/hp_elitebo...
pjmlp 1y ago
I keep waiting for the mythical day I can walk into a random computer store, and pick a laptop on display with either FreeBSD, or most common Linux distros, already pre-installed and 100% supported hardware. Last time I was able to do that was with netbooks, and even those were mostly OEM specific distros without updates, if we wanted to actually have 100% supported hardware.

throw0101a 1y ago

"CURRENT" is scheduled become 15.0 by the end of the year: * https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/schedule/ https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/schedule/ * https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/ https://www.freebsd.org/releases/15.0R/

cperciva 1y ago
Technically it's already 15.0, but 15.0-CURRENT is scheduled to branch off 15.0-STABLE, which then branches off 15.0-RELEASE.

LAC-Tech 1y ago

I could do FreeBSD on my laptop I think. I don't play games, and I've been wanting to play around with kqueue. Is it sort of like OpenBSD? I liked their manpages and their built in server thing (httpd). or is it completely different...

rootnod3 1y ago
Man pages are close enough to OpenBSD. Httpd is there, but renamed to obhttpd. There are some differences between PF and relayd for example, but not too difficult to switch.
nosioptar 1y ago
One big difference is OpenBSD is easier. For example, I installed FreeBSD on an old laptop and had to fiddle with building Xorg to get a GUI. Same laptop on OpenBSD just worked after running the installer.
- cnst 1y ago
  Yup, that's because X is part of OpenBSD base system, called xenocara, whereas in FreeBSD, you have to use the Ports tree to install Xorg. Ports tree in general is a great way to install third-party software, but not necessarily for Xorg. You still install KDE or GNOME through ports/packages on both systems, but X being more tightly integrated with the base system has benefits in reducing complexity for the rest of the components.
- LAC-Tech 1y ago
  is FreeBSD any worse than a minimalist linux distro like Arch in this regard?
  - grahamjperrin 1y ago
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_compared_to_other_distributions#The_BSDs https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_compared_to_other_dist... exists, but probably does not answer your question. For Arch users of KDE Plasma and applications, are essential packages ever missing? <https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE#Installation https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE#Installation> From https://gist.github.com/grahamperrin/307b8cdef5d4dcd30f5fdc4cdea03c72 https://gist.github.com/grahamperrin/307b8cdef5d4dcd30f5fdc4... for FreeBSD: > It's not unusual for a Tier 1 platform to have no package for a wanted desktop environment. Two platforms are at this tier: … For example, kde for FreeBSD 15.0-CURRENT was recently missing for a few days for AMD64; is still missing for aarch64 (64-bit ARMv8). This is not to criticise the maintainers of packages or repos. I do understand the constraints. The absence of an essential meta package is, inescapably, an impedance when aiming to test installers and upgrades, especially with pkgbase.

jcgrillo 1y ago

I'm currently running FreeBSD on a gen3 Intel T14. It's been excellent so far, however one minor annoyance has been S3 suspend/resume. Well, suspend works fine, but resuming triggers a restart. I'm hoping the recent S0ix work might fix that.

grahamjperrin 1y ago
Which version of FreeBSD, exactly? freebsd-version -kru ; uname -aKU pkg repos -el | sort -f pkg repos -e | grep url I'm not familiar with the meaning of T14, sorry. Does the Wi-Fi hardware use iwlwifi(4)? A kernel panic when waking from sleep might relate to the graphics driver.
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  > I'm not familiar with the meaning of T14, sorry. They probably are telling you the model of laptop; ThinkPad T14
- jcgrillo 1y ago
  ~ freebsd-version -kru 14.3-RELEASE 14.3-RELEASE 14.3-RELEASE-p1 ~ uname -aKU FreeBSD t14 14.3-RELEASE FreeBSD 14.3-RELEASE releng/14.3-n271432-8c9ce319fef7 GENERIC amd64 1403000 1403000 ~ pkg repos -el | sort -f FreeBSD FreeBSD-kmods ~ pkg repos -e | grep url url : "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/quarterly", url : "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/kmods_quarterly_3", ~ sysctl net.wlan.devices net.wlan.devices: iwlwifi0 ~ pciconf -vl | grep -B4 VGA vgapci0@pci0:0:2:0: class=0x030000 rev=0x0c hdr=0x00 vendor=0x8086 device=0x46a6 subvendor=0x17aa subdevice=0x22e8 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = 'Alder Lake-P GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]' class = display subclass = VGA ~ kldstat | grep i915 15 1 0xffffffff838f1000 1e0228 i915kms.ko Sorry I wasn't clearer before, the laptop is a Lenovo Thinkpad T14 gen3 with an Intel CPU. I poked around in logs a bit but I haven't found anything indicating an error yet. EDIT: just started reading Ch. 10 on Kernel Debugging[1], will try some things and see if I can extract any useful information. The handbook is so great. [1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/developers-handbook/kernel...

jaypatelani 1y ago

https://freebsdfoundation.org/blog/software-bill-of-materials-sbom-for-freebsd-project/ https://freebsdfoundation.org/blog/software-bill-of-material...

doublerabbit 1y ago

I have been how very surprised how well supported FreeBSD has been on my MSI Modern laptop. zfs and boot encryption make it perfect.

vermaden 1y ago

Earlier I used FreeBSD on ThinkPad W520 (because keyboard): - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-thinkpad-w520/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/04/14/freebsd-13-1-on-th... .. and recently moved to FrankenPad T25 that is based on T480 (because keyboard): - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/06/26/freebsd-14-3-on-frankenpad-t25/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/06/26/freebsd-14-3-on-fr... I do everything on FreeBSD including work. Some of the topics I covered: - Unlock Laptop with Phone - Conferencing and Meetings - Netflix Signal Telegram - Network Management with network.sh - FreeBSD Power Management - FreeBSD Suspend/Resume - Oldschool Gaming on FreeBSD - Minecraft Server in FreeBSD Jails Container - Secure Containerized Browser - Print on FreeBSD - Scan on FreeBSD - Sensible Firefox Setup - Operate Android Device on FreeBSD - FreeBSD Alongside Windows To just name a few ... because I am slowly closing to 200 of these FreeBSD related articles. % ls ~/misc/verblog/POSTS | wc -l 175 Regards, vermaden

jcgrillo 1y ago
Your blog was super helpful getting my machine set up, thanks!
- vermaden 1y ago
  Thanks.
mcflubbins 1y ago
> Operate Android Device on FreeBSD Can you clarify by what this means? Does that mean running Android in an emulator or something else? Thanks
- vermaden 1y ago
  All the details are here: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2024/10/29/operate-android-device-on-freebsd/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2024/10/29/operate-android-de...
  - 1y ago

net01 1y ago

Seeing modern standby is pretty insane in such a short time; it was one of the most attended talks in the BSD talks at FOSDEM: https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6390-wake-up-freebsd-implementing-modern-standby-with-s0ix/ https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6390-wake... Also pretty impressive because Aymeric started as a GSoC contributor and is now sponsored to work on BSD by the foundation.

da_chicken 1y ago
"Short time"? Look, I appreciate that you mean the development time for the feature to be added, but S0+network was introduced over a decade ago. Early versions were in Windows 8. It shipped in Windows 8.1 in 2013. Your link is from 2025 where they're talking about S3 support no longer existing at the hardware level. I'm really happy BSD is getting support, but they literally waited until hardware for the deprecated standard to cease to exist before implementing the new support. That's not a short amount of time.
- wlesieutre 1y ago
  If this is what Microsoft called "connected standby" it's worth noting that the early implementation of this even on Surface hardware with Windows 8 was hot garbage. It liked to wake itself up in your bag and completely drain the battery while cooking the computer from lack of ventilation. I made a point of always turning the Surface the whole way off any time I packed it up because it was so unreliable. Best case the battery drained like 5% per hour. Hopefully the initial BSD implementation is better than Windows did.
  - da_chicken 1y ago
    Oh, no doubt it was hot garbage in 8. It was slightly improved in 8.1, and there were real improvements in the system in Win10 that really made it work better. Win10 was the first good version. But Win10 is still over 10 years old. Win10 is end of life in about 2 months.
    - 1y ago

e12e 1y ago

Does anyone know if there's been any efforts towards running freeBSD on arm64 laptops? On Linux there's been some effort: https://www.linaro.org/blog/linux-on-snapdragon-x-elite/ https://www.linaro.org/blog/linux-on-snapdragon-x-elite/ Ed: hn discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44699393 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44699393

rjsw 1y ago
The GPU drivers for Snapdragon are GPL 2.0 only, makes it hard to use in FreeBSD. The drivers for GPUs used in X86 systems are dual licenced so can be used outside Linux.

oiWecsio 1y ago

s0ix is another great example that the world, or a bit more precisely, "general purpose hardware", has been going to absolute fucking shit. Who the hell needs this crap? S3 used to be just perfect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InstantGo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InstantGo > [...] a Microsoft specification for Windows 8 (and later) hardware and software that aims to bring smartphone-type power management capabilities to the PC platform [...] allows the operating system to continue performing background tasks, such as updating content from apps, when a device is not being used [...] We've all needed this like a big fucking kick in the groin. "Modern standby" my ass. Microsoft has great firmware engineers, but the functionality they design, and then mandate, so that Windows can have its rotten tentacles into the guts of the firmware, is absolutely disgusting. Technically well implemented, but the goal is usually terrible.

rollcat 1y ago
They're of course trying to match Apple, except Apple has 100% vertical integration, from CPU cores to apps. This is the real challenge with "general purpose hardware". A good product is distinguished by attention to detail.
vermaden 1y ago
Yep. The 's0ix' is bullshit. S3 suspend/resume worked just fine. ... but in the end of the day what more can You do? I would say 'vote with your wallet' ... but that also does not work anymore. Take a look at laptop keyboard layouts [1] ... does not matter if MNT, Framework, KDE, ThinkPad, ... whatever - does not matter - NO ONE make 7-row keyboards in laptops anymore ... we are fucked :[ [1] https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/epitaph-to-laptops/ https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/02/07/epitaph-to-laptops...
- grahamjperrin 1y ago
  > 's0ix' is bullshit. False. S0iX is not bullshit. > S3 suspend/resume worked just fine. Not for me.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

grahamjperrin 1y ago

Side note: I wasn't aware that the title here was truncated. Sorry. It should have been: Laptop Support and Usability (LSU): July 2025 report from the FreeBSD Foundation