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In isolation, this might be a positive. But watching one of the world’s richest multinationals do this primarily in response to an autocratic, authoritarian reg
by Arubis 1y ago
In isolation, this might be a positive. But watching one of the world’s richest multinationals do this primarily in response to an autocratic, authoritarian regime is neither a good look nor what we should hope for as an example of how to influence corporate decisionmaking.
- atonse 1y agoI totally agree with you about the motivations... and I can't speak to how many long term jobs will come out of this. But if this even gives us some chance to jolt our manufacturing sector back, will we start to gain some momentum? Even if it's mostly using automation. Will it help to reduce our reliance on China? I doubt it will in the same way that it's been extremely hard for other countries to replicate the US momentum in R&D. But one can hope.
- tootie 1y agoCook is getting significant considerations on imports and offering Trump PR with zero obligation. Maybe they invest, maybe they don't, maybe they just do what they were going to do anyway.
- chrisco255 1y agoThen they'll pay import tariffs on the foreign components. And they'll increase their supply chain risk (as well as regulatory risk) in a polarized political climate.
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoTrump is only in office for 3 and a half years. Spending $600b will take much longer time than that. Assuming america remains democratic, the next president is very likely to wash away most of what Trump has done on day one (since he did all of this via executive order).
- chrisco255 1y ago1. The escalated tension between the United States and China is unlikely to resolve in the next 3.5 years. Apple already took the step to move iPhone production to India. However, as recently shown, even India could be subject to tariffs as they are purchasing Russian oil and in effect funding the Ukraine war. The next president will have to operate in a multipolar world. 2. The tariffs are producing revenue for the Federal government. Hundreds of billions per year. To remove the tariffs arbitrarily in the future, a President would need to assume the political risk of increasing the national deficit. 3. Trump imposed tarriffs on his first term that Biden did not reverse. Even if the next President is a Democrat it's more likely than not that the trade deals remain in place. 4. A strong contender for the next president is the current vice president, JD Vance, who would be highly unlikely to reverse.
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoTrump’s approval ratings is in the gutter like it was during his last term. He doesn’t reach out and make new fans, he just loses the ones he has. JD Vance is even less popular than trump, anyone who thinks their electoral success occurs even with extra gerrymandering for the midterms is probably in for a huge surprise. Trump didn’t initiate sweeping tariffs in his last term, and they weren’t wildly unpopular. Trump is accumulating enough bad will at the moment to make it very politically easy for someone to wash away everything if they win the 2028 election.
- chrisco255 1y agoApproval ratings are unscientific, fleeting, and wildly variable, even among Presidents that go on to be reelected. It is a stat you take with a grain of salt, especially 6 months into a presidency. Even the polls for the actual election, which get far more money to spend, were wildly inaccurate especially in recent elections. If Trump's moves pan out in the positive for American people over the next year or two, controversial as they may be in the present, then sentiment will increase, plain and simple. JD Vance is quite popular among Republicans and reasonably popular among independents, which is all you need to win the presidency. The Democrats, on the other hand, have no heir apparent and have quite a few structural issues within their own party at the national level. We'll see what the actual field looks like in 2028 but that is a long ways off and a lot will change between now and then.
- realusername 1y agoEither the American market will collapse or they will pay those fées anyways
- ocdtrekkie 1y agoThey only have to look like they're working on this for the next three and a half years.
- theultdev 1y ago[flagged]
- WarOnPrivacy 1y ago> but there's nothing authoritarian about that. Keeping authoritarian promises is authoritarian. Believing otherwise is interesting.
- theultdev 1y agoYou need to expand on what you think is "authoritarian". Otherwise, a conversation can not be had. It's interesting you view that he ran on authoritarian ideals, yet still won the popular vote. Yes while populist leaders can be authoritarian, it does not mean this one is. I'm still waiting for someone to name a specific policy so a discussion debating whether it is authoritarian or not can begin. It is however, interesting that you believe a candidate ran on and won the popular vote as the leader of the free world on authoritarian ideals. Do you think that little of American voters? Or are you misinformed / biased?
- jondwillis 1y agoUgh I can’t wait for the realization of all of the definitely-real-not-fake populist gains and definitely-not-inevitable-now downward spiral of leadership integrity and outcomes. /s obviously. Does anyone else remember PPP? And the last 10 years of accelerationist wet dreams come true?
- wat10000 1y ago“Authoritarian” and “popular” are not antonyms. It’s distressing that apparently half of the country welcomes or at least doesn’t mind authoritarianism, but it doesn’t somehow disprove it.
- tdb7893 1y agoAfter reading your comment I was curious whether I misunderstood what authoritarianism was but from reading the wiki that winning an election definitely doesn't make something inherently not authoritarian and there are lots of examples of authoritarians who were elected in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism
- chrisco255 1y agoAn American president using the bully pulpit (as Teddy Roosevelt so fondly called it) to expand jobs and investment in America is the president doing his actual job. Of course Apple didn't do it on their own accord, there was way too much profit to be made from outsourcing to China. Everyone else was doing it, why not also the richest company on earth?
- FranzFerdiNaN 1y agoI’m sure Americans are just dying for jobs like screwing iPhones together all day, or standing in a field under the burning sun harvesting tomatoes.
- chrisco255 1y agoYou mean manufacturing and farming jobs? Absolutely, they're decent jobs and far more rewarding than serving diabetes to McDonald's and Starbucks patrons. Tomato harvesting is done in an air conditioned tractor these days: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/pDxZhOw9IH4 https://m.youtube.com/shorts/pDxZhOw9IH4 https://youtu.be/l4Dc6QNWiIs?si=S9qrFNpUBM5KuSrx https://youtu.be/l4Dc6QNWiIs?si=S9qrFNpUBM5KuSrx Production on iPhone can be highly automated these days as well. There are plenty of good examples of revitalized computer hardware manufacturing in the U.S. like the Starlink Factory in Bastrop, TX: https://youtu.be/qz0k4wj_KlA?si=qUqJ0DWTRpHa4cgY https://youtu.be/qz0k4wj_KlA?si=qUqJ0DWTRpHa4cgY or the TSMC factory in Arizona, which has similar amenities to many software offices: https://youtu.be/X3QuVwR30Uk?si=D92n34OZUpzAHIFn https://youtu.be/X3QuVwR30Uk?si=D92n34OZUpzAHIFn
- ilove196884 1y agoThose jobs require a ton of college education. Atleast as far as I know TSMC only allows PhDs on lithography and etching machines. And Apple smartphone manufacturing is nearly automated and most of the required personnel are engineers.
- ImJamal 1y agoInstead we should just give it to brown people and pay them minimum wage or less than in other countries.
- ericmcer 1y agoI agree that seeing the executive branch's authority continue to swell is not good for our democracy, but corporations (and specifically Apple) offshoring all their labor to developing nations has been viewed as a huge negative for ~30 years? Any amount of returning manufacturing here, returning power to the middle class by increasing the demand for labor and stopping the exploitation of foreign workers is a good thing. I can't stand listening to him talk, but if iPhones aren't reliant on slaves mining cobalt and 13 year olds working 12 hours a days I will consider that a win.
- jemmyw 1y agoI mean, it's not going to fix the cobalt mining problem.
- murukesh_s 1y agoI think iPhones can take a good bump in the pricing for bringing the manufacturing onshore. Currently an iPhone is 30% more expensive in developing countries like India compared to US, Dubai or even Japan. Thats insane, and still an average adult is looking forward to own one. That is 50% of your annual income you have to spend for buying an arguably, state of the art mobile phone. If you are in US, an iPhone is only approximately 1% of your annual per capita income. Thats massive difference..
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoiPhones are more expensive in developing countries due to developing country taxes and tariffs. China used to be the same way (iPhones are imported into China because they are made in SEZs), but has a price that is comparable to the USA now mainly due to china’s push for more consumption by Chinese consumers. iPhone prices are high in India simply because the government would rather Indian consumers not spend money on them, not because the Indian government thinks they can afford it. The USA is sort of addicted to consumption (where China wants to be actually), you could dissuade a lot of consumption by raising taxes on it (if, for example, you want people to save more and focus only on necessities). It would be a huge change for America though, the market might not survive intact if it happens too quickly.
- WarOnPrivacy 1y ago> But when ... the world’s richest multinationals do this primarily in response to an autocratic, authoritarian regime ... ...it gifts authoritarian power to autocrats and fully guarantees more authoritarian behavior.
- bsder 1y ago> In isolation, this might be a positive. But watching one of the world’s richest multinationals do this primarily in response to an autocratic, authoritarian regime is neither a good look nor what we should hope for as an example of how to influence corporate decisionmaking. Ironically, your comment is double-bladed. This has likely been in the works from when China shook Apple down and the timing has a nice upside that it also pacifies His Orangeness(tm).
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- mensetmanusman 1y agoIt’s surprising to see this done by the right, the left is supposed to strong arm corporations to do things.