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> Shouldn't be that blatantly ideological, it's not a political platform Yeah! This always stands out like a sore thumb on the website. Like _yeah_, all of it

> Shouldn't be that blatantly ideological, it's not a political platform Yeah! This always stands out like a sore thumb on the website. Like _yeah_, all of it should go without saying! You're a freely available programming language, of course everyone can use it! Of course everyone is welcome! Does a hammer care about your gender or race? No, anyone can use it! It's also very weird and a little childish to specifically include "no nazi bullshit". Isn't it obvious that "nazi bullshit" isn't welcome? Like a no-brainer? Why does a programming language feel the need to say this? Are prominent nazis actively showing interest in Gleam and trying to promote their "bullshit" with it? Also, the phrase "nazi bullshit" is severely downplaying the problem with the nazis. "Bullshit" is usually something mildly inconvenient, somewhat unfair, kinda infuriating, but it usually doesn't threaten anybody and doesn't fuel world wars.

atomfinger 1y ago
> Isn't it obvious that "nazi bullshit" isn't welcome? Like a no-brainer? Unfortunately, not in this day and age. > Why does a programming language feel the need to say this? It's less about "the language saying it" and more about the standards of the community that surrounds the language. For a language to thrive, it needs a community of people contributing to it. If it doesn't, it'll eventually die unused. As such, there's more than "just the language"; it is also a community-building effort. > Also, the phrase "nazi bullshit" is severely... IMHO, you're reading too much into the word "bullshit".
samdoesnothing 1y ago
[flagged]
- giraffe_lady 1y ago
  HN itself has quite a lot of "nazi bullshit." You don't usually, regularly see people being virulent about it but people frequently endorse policies that would absolutely have fit cleanly into the historical nazi party's platform. Things like race science and eliminationist policies against the homeless, anti-immigration stances, homo- and transphobia are particularly popular. People here are normally "polite" about it and we seem to all have decided that means it doesn't count. It does count.
  - samdoesnothing 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - giraffe_lady 1y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583159
      - samdoesnothing 1y ago
        The latter I see.
        giraffe_lady 1y ago
        As I said, several of these would fit cleanly into the historical nazi party's platform. A pretty narrow claim that I would certainly not accept about a site I was moderating.
        imtringued 1y ago
        Ok, but if you read the "wolf in sheeps clothing" party program of the nazi party and put it in the context of the aftermath of what the party actually did, you'd realize that they don't actually care about their program and only ever used it as a wedge to blame outgroups for the ills of society. What I'm trying to say here is that the nazis were outwardly role playing socialists to appease workers, but when it was time to punish the "capitalists" they didn't seem to care whether they were actually capitalists and were more interested in whether a person was part of the ingroup (=white christian Germans) or not. In other words, if capitalism or market economies are rigged, then they only care about whether the economic system is rigged in favor of the ingroup. The reason why I'm responding to you is that the barrier to a nazi accusation is essentially zero these days and most anti-fascists I've encountered are essentially the spitting mirror image of fascism. They declare an outgroup, but call it nazi this time. Then the anti-fascist logic allows the justification of infinite retaliation. Any shred of being principled is completely thrown out the window. Because nazis controlled all of Germany for a time, they've done a lot of things that can be attributed to them, which means there are a lot of things you can take about any ordinary person and create a very loose nazi association through motivated reasoning. Note that in a mirror image, left and right are swapped. They're not the same, but they are eerily similar. Yep, these days you can be fed Youtube shorts of people arguing the Green Party in Germany are Nazis, while there is an actual party (AfD) that puts hidden hitler moustaches on Alice Weidel in their official fliers. That same party claims Adolf Hitler was a leftist and leftism is bad, which is good, because they're not leftists, but they also happen to like Adolf Hitler.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- re 1y ago
  > I'm just sharing what I've observed Can you be more specific? I'm curious about the types of "slightly right leaning" things that you think are reasonable to say in a programming language community, but that would be controversial or forbidden in a "highly politicised"/"no nazi bullshit" community.
  - samdoesnothing 1y ago
    Any praise of capitalism, any outward support of right leaning parties, any criticisms of immigration policy, etc.

atomfinger 1y ago

> Isn't it obvious that "nazi bullshit" isn't welcome? Like a no-brainer? Unfortunately, not in this day and age. > Why does a programming language feel the need to say this? It's less about "the language saying it" and more about the standards of the community that surrounds the language. For a language to thrive, it needs a community of people contributing to it. If it doesn't, it'll eventually die unused. As such, there's more than "just the language"; it is also a community-building effort. > Also, the phrase "nazi bullshit" is severely... IMHO, you're reading too much into the word "bullshit".

samdoesnothing 1y ago

[flagged]

giraffe_lady 1y ago
HN itself has quite a lot of "nazi bullshit." You don't usually, regularly see people being virulent about it but people frequently endorse policies that would absolutely have fit cleanly into the historical nazi party's platform. Things like race science and eliminationist policies against the homeless, anti-immigration stances, homo- and transphobia are particularly popular. People here are normally "polite" about it and we seem to all have decided that means it doesn't count. It does count.
- samdoesnothing 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - giraffe_lady 1y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44583159
    - samdoesnothing 1y ago
      The latter I see.
      - giraffe_lady 1y ago
        As I said, several of these would fit cleanly into the historical nazi party's platform. A pretty narrow claim that I would certainly not accept about a site I was moderating.
        imtringued 1y ago
        Ok, but if you read the "wolf in sheeps clothing" party program of the nazi party and put it in the context of the aftermath of what the party actually did, you'd realize that they don't actually care about their program and only ever used it as a wedge to blame outgroups for the ills of society. What I'm trying to say here is that the nazis were outwardly role playing socialists to appease workers, but when it was time to punish the "capitalists" they didn't seem to care whether they were actually capitalists and were more interested in whether a person was part of the ingroup (=white christian Germans) or not. In other words, if capitalism or market economies are rigged, then they only care about whether the economic system is rigged in favor of the ingroup. The reason why I'm responding to you is that the barrier to a nazi accusation is essentially zero these days and most anti-fascists I've encountered are essentially the spitting mirror image of fascism. They declare an outgroup, but call it nazi this time. Then the anti-fascist logic allows the justification of infinite retaliation. Any shred of being principled is completely thrown out the window. Because nazis controlled all of Germany for a time, they've done a lot of things that can be attributed to them, which means there are a lot of things you can take about any ordinary person and create a very loose nazi association through motivated reasoning. Note that in a mirror image, left and right are swapped. They're not the same, but they are eerily similar. Yep, these days you can be fed Youtube shorts of people arguing the Green Party in Germany are Nazis, while there is an actual party (AfD) that puts hidden hitler moustaches on Alice Weidel in their official fliers. That same party claims Adolf Hitler was a leftist and leftism is bad, which is good, because they're not leftists, but they also happen to like Adolf Hitler.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
re 1y ago
> I'm just sharing what I've observed Can you be more specific? I'm curious about the types of "slightly right leaning" things that you think are reasonable to say in a programming language community, but that would be controversial or forbidden in a "highly politicised"/"no nazi bullshit" community.
- samdoesnothing 1y ago
  Any praise of capitalism, any outward support of right leaning parties, any criticisms of immigration policy, etc.