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> One thing that has been frustrating me is that people rarely share their workflows after making big claims Good luck ever getting that. I've asked that about

by samtp 1y ago

> One thing that has been frustrating me is that people rarely share their workflows after making big claims Good luck ever getting that. I've asked that about a dozen times on here from people making these claims and have never received a response. And I'm genuinely curious as well, so I will continue asking.

tptacek 1y ago
People share this stuff all the time. Kenton Varda published a whole walkthrough[1], prompts and all. Stories about people's personal LLM workflows have been on the front page here repeatedly over the last few months. What people aren't doing is proving to you that their workflows work as well as they say they do. You want proof, you can DM people for their rate card and see what that costs. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44159166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44159166
- samtp 1y ago
  Thanks for sharing and that is interesting to read through. But it's still just a demo, not live production code. From the readme: > As of March, 2025, this library is very new, prerelease software. I'm not looking for personal proof that their workflows work as well as they say they do. I just want an example of a project in production with active users depending on the service for business functions that has been written 1.5/2/5/10/whatever x faster than it otherwise would have without AI. Anyone can vibe code a side project with 10 users or a demo meant to generate hype/sales interest. But I want someone to actually have put their money where their mouth is and give an example of a project that would have legal, security, or monetary consequences if bad code was put in production. Because those are the types of projects that matter to me when trying to evaluate people's claims (since those are what my paycheck actually depends on). Do you have any examples like that?
  - tptacek 1y ago
    See, I just shared Kenton Varda describing his entire workflow, and you came back asking that I please show you a workflow that would find more credible. Do you want to learn about people's workflows, or do you want to argue with them that their workflows don't work? Nobody is interested in doing the latter with you.
    - jaggederest 1y ago
      It almost feels like sealioning. People say nobody shares their workflow, so I share it. They say well that's not production code, so I point to PRs in active projects I'm using, and they say well that doesn't demonstrate your interactive flow. I point out the design documents and prompts and they say yes but what kind of setup do you do, which MCP servers are you running, and I point them at my MCP repo. At some point you have to accept that no amount of proof will convince someone that refuses to be swayed. It's very frustrating because, while these are wonderful tools already, its clear that the biggest thing that makes a positive difference is people using and improving them. They're still in relative infancy. I want to have the kind of conversations we had back at the beginning of web development, when people were delighted at what was possible despite everything being relatively awful.
      - samtp 1y ago
        I don't care about your workflow, that can be figured out from the 10,000 blog posts all describing the same thing. My issue is with people claiming this huge boost in productivity only to find out that they are working on code bases that have no real consequence if something fails, breaks, or doesn't work as intended. Since my day job is creating systems that need to be operational and predictable for paying clients - examples of front end mockups, demos, apps with no users, etc don't really matter that much at the end of the day. It's like the difference between being a great speaker in a group of 3 friends vs standing up in front of a 30 person audience with your job on the line. If you have some examples, I'd love to hear about them because I am genuinely curious.
        kasey_junk 1y ago
        I use agentic flows writing code that deals with millions of pieces of financial data every day. I rolled out a PR that was a one shot change to our fundamental storage layer on our hot path yesterday. This was part of a large codebase and that file has existed for four years. It hadn’t been touched in 2. I literally didn’t touch a text editor on that change. I have first hand experience watching devs do this with payment processing code that handles over a billion dollars on a given day.
  - kentonv 1y ago
    Dude. That code tptacek linked you to? It's part of our (Cloudflare's) MCP framework. Which means all of the companies mentioned in this blog post are using this code in production today: https://blog.cloudflare.com/mcp-demo-day/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/mcp-demo-day/ There you go. This is what you are looking for. Why are you refusing to believe it? (OK fine. I guess I should probably update the readme to remove that "prerelease" line.)
    - samtp 1y ago
      Lol misunderstanding a disclaimer in a readme is not refusing to believe something. But my apologies and appreciate the clarification.
      - kentonv 1y ago
        Yeah OK fair that line in the readme is more prominent than I remember it being. I never look at my own readmes so they tend to get outdated. :/ Fixing: https://github.com/cloudflare/workers-oauth-provider/pull/59 https://github.com/cloudflare/workers-oauth-provider/pull/59

by samtp 1y ago

tptacek 1y ago

People share this stuff all the time. Kenton Varda published a whole walkthrough[1], prompts and all. Stories about people's personal LLM workflows have been on the front page here repeatedly over the last few months. What people aren't doing is proving to you that their workflows work as well as they say they do. You want proof, you can DM people for their rate card and see what that costs. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44159166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44159166

samtp 1y ago
Thanks for sharing and that is interesting to read through. But it's still just a demo, not live production code. From the readme: > As of March, 2025, this library is very new, prerelease software. I'm not looking for personal proof that their workflows work as well as they say they do. I just want an example of a project in production with active users depending on the service for business functions that has been written 1.5/2/5/10/whatever x faster than it otherwise would have without AI. Anyone can vibe code a side project with 10 users or a demo meant to generate hype/sales interest. But I want someone to actually have put their money where their mouth is and give an example of a project that would have legal, security, or monetary consequences if bad code was put in production. Because those are the types of projects that matter to me when trying to evaluate people's claims (since those are what my paycheck actually depends on). Do you have any examples like that?
- tptacek 1y ago
  See, I just shared Kenton Varda describing his entire workflow, and you came back asking that I please show you a workflow that would find more credible. Do you want to learn about people's workflows, or do you want to argue with them that their workflows don't work? Nobody is interested in doing the latter with you.
  - jaggederest 1y ago
    It almost feels like sealioning. People say nobody shares their workflow, so I share it. They say well that's not production code, so I point to PRs in active projects I'm using, and they say well that doesn't demonstrate your interactive flow. I point out the design documents and prompts and they say yes but what kind of setup do you do, which MCP servers are you running, and I point them at my MCP repo. At some point you have to accept that no amount of proof will convince someone that refuses to be swayed. It's very frustrating because, while these are wonderful tools already, its clear that the biggest thing that makes a positive difference is people using and improving them. They're still in relative infancy. I want to have the kind of conversations we had back at the beginning of web development, when people were delighted at what was possible despite everything being relatively awful.
    - samtp 1y ago
      I don't care about your workflow, that can be figured out from the 10,000 blog posts all describing the same thing. My issue is with people claiming this huge boost in productivity only to find out that they are working on code bases that have no real consequence if something fails, breaks, or doesn't work as intended. Since my day job is creating systems that need to be operational and predictable for paying clients - examples of front end mockups, demos, apps with no users, etc don't really matter that much at the end of the day. It's like the difference between being a great speaker in a group of 3 friends vs standing up in front of a 30 person audience with your job on the line. If you have some examples, I'd love to hear about them because I am genuinely curious.
      - kasey_junk 1y ago
        I use agentic flows writing code that deals with millions of pieces of financial data every day. I rolled out a PR that was a one shot change to our fundamental storage layer on our hot path yesterday. This was part of a large codebase and that file has existed for four years. It hadn’t been touched in 2. I literally didn’t touch a text editor on that change. I have first hand experience watching devs do this with payment processing code that handles over a billion dollars on a given day.
- kentonv 1y ago
  Dude. That code tptacek linked you to? It's part of our (Cloudflare's) MCP framework. Which means all of the companies mentioned in this blog post are using this code in production today: https://blog.cloudflare.com/mcp-demo-day/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/mcp-demo-day/ There you go. This is what you are looking for. Why are you refusing to believe it? (OK fine. I guess I should probably update the readme to remove that "prerelease" line.)
  - samtp 1y ago
    Lol misunderstanding a disclaimer in a readme is not refusing to believe something. But my apologies and appreciate the clarification.
    - kentonv 1y ago
      Yeah OK fair that line in the readme is more prominent than I remember it being. I never look at my own readmes so they tend to get outdated. :/ Fixing: https://github.com/cloudflare/workers-oauth-provider/pull/59 https://github.com/cloudflare/workers-oauth-provider/pull/59