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This is mostly untrue. Most of this narrative comes from Soviet propaganda that was later propagated by anti-Western and anti-war groups in the United States. M

This is mostly untrue. Most of this narrative comes from Soviet propaganda that was later propagated by anti-Western and anti-war groups in the United States. More recently, it's gotten more attention as Vladimir Putin and Vladimir Rudolfovich Solovyov use it as a useful tool to build their narrative that only Russia was responsible for World War II's victory and to justify their constant threats of nuclear warfare. The historical record is very clear, as is Hirohito's own statement at the time: "Furthermore, the enemy has begun to employ a new and cruel bomb, causing immense and indiscriminate destruction, the extent of which is beyond all estimation. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in the ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but it would also lead to the total extinction of human civilization. How, then, are We to protect the millions of Our subjects and atone before the spirits of my Imperial ancestors? This is why We have ordered the Empire to accept the terms of the Joint Declaration. "

prmph 1y ago
What came before the "Furthermore, ..."?
- WillPostForFood 1y ago
  But now the war has lasted for nearly four years. Despite the best that has been done by everyone — the gallant fighting of the military and naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of our servants of the state, and the devoted service of our one hundred million people — the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan’s advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.
  - pirate787 1y ago
    That may be the greatest understatement ever written!
    - prmph 1y ago
      Beat me to it. That's exactly what I was going to say
    - ekianjo 1y ago
      the English translation is. In Japanese its not surprising to talk in this way.
      - ForOldHack 1y ago
        Hirohito spoke in a very very rare way that very few humans speak. It took years of a friend who got a masters in 'Peace and conflict studies' to get me to understand, and in the decade since, and after reading Hirohito's book it still takes a significant intellectual effort to distinguish the listening.
georgeecollins 1y ago
The other thing that gets glossed over in the "it was the soviets, not the bomb that caused the surrender" is that the USSR knew the US had the atomic bomb and realized it might end the war. They had territorial objectives of their own and wanted to join the conflict with (understandably) minimal casualties. If they had thought the war was going to last another year they might waited a bit longer to join. I really strongly recommend Ian Toll's histories of the Pacific war, because there is information that is not in the early histories (at least the ones I read a while back) that is because things in the US and former USSR are more declassified. In particular, the US had a pretty good understanding of what is going on in the Japanese government. They knew a lot of civilian leaders wanted to surrender before Hiroshima, but were afraid they would be associated by a coup, as had happened in the 1930s. That's also what the Japanese leaders who wanted to surrender were worried about as well.
- DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
  The USSR entered the war against Japan precisely 3 months after the defeat of Nazi Germany, exactly as they promised to the Western Allies at Yalta.
ekianjo 1y ago
> The historical record is very clear, as is Hirohito's own statement at the time thats just the official word. The coming Soviet invasion was definitely a factor.
- opo 1y ago
  The Soviets could never have done a large invasion of Japan. They had a few ships that the USA had given them as part of Project Hula, but that is nothing compared to what would be needed for a full scale invasion of Japan. In comparison, the proposed allied invasion was planned to have 42 aircraft carriers, 24 battleships, and 400 destroyers and destroyer escorts.
ForOldHack 1y ago
The historical record is very clear, and I have read those words too.
DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
Hirohito's surrender speech to the army pointed to the entry of the Soviet Union into the war as the main reason for surrender: "Now that the Soviet Union has entered the war against us, to continue the war under the present internal and external conditions would be only to increase needlessly the ravages of war finally to the point of endangering the very foundation of the Empire's existence." Hirohito said different things to different audiences.

prmph 1y ago

What came before the "Furthermore, ..."?

WillPostForFood 1y ago
But now the war has lasted for nearly four years. Despite the best that has been done by everyone — the gallant fighting of the military and naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of our servants of the state, and the devoted service of our one hundred million people — the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan’s advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.
- pirate787 1y ago
  That may be the greatest understatement ever written!
  - prmph 1y ago
    Beat me to it. That's exactly what I was going to say
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    the English translation is. In Japanese its not surprising to talk in this way.
    - ForOldHack 1y ago
      Hirohito spoke in a very very rare way that very few humans speak. It took years of a friend who got a masters in 'Peace and conflict studies' to get me to understand, and in the decade since, and after reading Hirohito's book it still takes a significant intellectual effort to distinguish the listening.

georgeecollins 1y ago

The other thing that gets glossed over in the "it was the soviets, not the bomb that caused the surrender" is that the USSR knew the US had the atomic bomb and realized it might end the war. They had territorial objectives of their own and wanted to join the conflict with (understandably) minimal casualties. If they had thought the war was going to last another year they might waited a bit longer to join. I really strongly recommend Ian Toll's histories of the Pacific war, because there is information that is not in the early histories (at least the ones I read a while back) that is because things in the US and former USSR are more declassified. In particular, the US had a pretty good understanding of what is going on in the Japanese government. They knew a lot of civilian leaders wanted to surrender before Hiroshima, but were afraid they would be associated by a coup, as had happened in the 1930s. That's also what the Japanese leaders who wanted to surrender were worried about as well.

DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
The USSR entered the war against Japan precisely 3 months after the defeat of Nazi Germany, exactly as they promised to the Western Allies at Yalta.

ekianjo 1y ago

> The historical record is very clear, as is Hirohito's own statement at the time thats just the official word. The coming Soviet invasion was definitely a factor.

opo 1y ago
The Soviets could never have done a large invasion of Japan. They had a few ships that the USA had given them as part of Project Hula, but that is nothing compared to what would be needed for a full scale invasion of Japan. In comparison, the proposed allied invasion was planned to have 42 aircraft carriers, 24 battleships, and 400 destroyers and destroyer escorts.

ForOldHack 1y ago

The historical record is very clear, and I have read those words too.

DiogenesKynikos 1y ago

Hirohito's surrender speech to the army pointed to the entry of the Soviet Union into the war as the main reason for surrender: "Now that the Soviet Union has entered the war against us, to continue the war under the present internal and external conditions would be only to increase needlessly the ravages of war finally to the point of endangering the very foundation of the Empire's existence." Hirohito said different things to different audiences.