5 ms·

The article isn’t very clear about this, did they have any reason to suspect that these 2 Soldiers had personally committed war crimes or were they arrested onl

by _mlbt 1y ago

The article isn’t very clear about this, did they have any reason to suspect that these 2 Soldiers had personally committed war crimes or were they arrested only on the basis of them being IDF? If it’s the former, then good on them. If it’s the latter, which I suspect since they were questioned and then released, then this sets a terrible precedent.

Jtsummers 1y ago
The article is clear about it, the group who reported them to Belgian authorities have what they believe is evidence of war crimes by the individuals they report. Whether it's sufficient evidence or clear evidence is another matter, of course. > In October 2024, the Hind Rajab Foundation submitted a report to the International Criminal Court (ICC) identifying 1,000 Israeli soldiers, backed by over 8,000 pieces of evidence — mostly from social media — implicating individuals in attacks on civilians and the destruction of Palestinian homes.
- hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
  I don't think the article is clear about it, contrary to your comment and a sibling. I read it as: 1. The soldiers were displaying IDF military flags at a music festival. This was not allowed by festival organizers and obviously pissed some people off. 2. These soldiers were then taken in for questioning. It's not clear to me that these 2 were some of the specific 1,000 soldiers from that Hind Rajab Foundation report - that sounded like an associated piece of information given in the article.
  - e12e 1y ago
    I think it's pretty clear that the criminal complaint is over genocide, not flying flags at a festival. But flying a flag makes identification easier?
    - Jtsummers 1y ago
      > But flying a flag makes identification easier? Almost certainly. US DOD actively discourages carrying identifying items while traveling for exactly that reason.
  - mrow84 1y ago
    > The case emerged on July 20, when both organizations filed a complaint with the Belgian federal prosecutor against two members of the Israeli army’s Givati Brigade who were attending the Tomorrowland music festival with their military flags. > The complaint accused them of direct involvement in war crimes and acts potentially constituting genocide in Gaza — specifically, indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas, torture, and forced displacement. Seems pretty clear?
mindslight 1y ago
Arresting and questioning people associated with criminal enterprises has long been a staple of police work. And tangentially it's the kind of thing we need more of rather than the easy answer of pervasive surveillance.
GordonS 1y ago
The article could have been clearer, but it does mention the Hind Rajab Foundation is involved, an NGO dedicated to building war crimes cases against individuals for illegal actions in Gaza and the West Bank. An incredible number of such vile individuals have recorded and published videos and publicly boasted about themselves and their companions undertaking war crimes.
uoaei 1y ago
> The complaint accused them of direct involvement in war crimes and acts potentially constituting genocide in Gaza — specifically, indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas, torture, and forced displacement. TFA
e12e 1y ago
As I understand it, a non-profit submitted a specific complaint, and the prosecutor started an investigation: > The Hind Rajab Foundation’s strategy focuses on targeting individual soldiers, especially dual nationals or those traveling to countries with universal jurisdiction provisions. Since its establishment in September 2024, the foundation has worked with legal partners to gather documentation — including videos and images taken during the soldiers’ service in Gaza — and file cases in multiple countries, including France, the Netherlands, Brazil, and the UK. I don't think it would be surprising for such evidence to be enough to warrant investigation and questioning - but perhaps not enough for holding in custody until a trial.
- spwa4 1y ago
  It would be surprising because the people of the foundation are terrorist supporters (for certain), or actual terrorists (not proven) The founders of the foundation, Dyab Abou Jahjah and Karim Hassoun, are known to campaign and provide material support to Hezbollah - a terrorist organization. Diab Abou Jahjah actually went to Lebanon and may have actually participated in Hezbollah operations - he declared his intent to do so in the newspaper before leaving, but was not so stupid as to confirm it afterwards. So there is no proof he actually fought for them. It IS proven that he transferred money to Hezbollah and collected money from others for Hezbollah (which is by the way a war crime, in case that convinces anyone. Knowingly supporting terrorist organizations, which he did, is a war crime) Socialists in Belgium protect especially Mr. Jahjah because he's been part of a Belgian communist party for a long time. Of course, that doesn't change what he did. But it would still be VERY surprising that any court would take any complaint about terrorism from a terrorist supporter, from a person who left for a war zone declaring his intent to become a terrorist in the newspaper, seriously. Especially given other problems with people who did that, and the fact that the Belgian police force is, and I'm putting it very mildly, not particularly well suited or interested in fighting a foreign war ... Of course, this would be pretty typical strategy for the PVDA. Making legal complaints that are so absurd there's zero chance any court will do anything, then "pointing out" how unfair the justice system is and how it will always protect the capitalists (previously usually represented by OpenVLD, but more recently by the NVA). It's probably a decade ago, but they sued a hotel chain for refusing to convert a central hotel in Antwerp into social housing for free, and then made a big fuss when the court said what amounted to "WTF?".
NomDePlum 1y ago
What would be terrible about the precedent if it was them being IDF? Being part of an organisation that has collectively carried out war crimes, genocide and ethnic cleansing arrest seems like a reasonable action.
nashashmi 1y ago
The way the US works, the entire body of IRGC staff are sanctioned. Meaning it is possible to blame everyone in the IDF as a perpetrator for the actions of some because the rest of IDF won’t be prosecuting them

by _mlbt 1y ago

Jtsummers 1y ago

The article is clear about it, the group who reported them to Belgian authorities have what they believe is evidence of war crimes by the individuals they report. Whether it's sufficient evidence or clear evidence is another matter, of course. > In October 2024, the Hind Rajab Foundation submitted a report to the International Criminal Court (ICC) identifying 1,000 Israeli soldiers, backed by over 8,000 pieces of evidence — mostly from social media — implicating individuals in attacks on civilians and the destruction of Palestinian homes.

hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
I don't think the article is clear about it, contrary to your comment and a sibling. I read it as: 1. The soldiers were displaying IDF military flags at a music festival. This was not allowed by festival organizers and obviously pissed some people off. 2. These soldiers were then taken in for questioning. It's not clear to me that these 2 were some of the specific 1,000 soldiers from that Hind Rajab Foundation report - that sounded like an associated piece of information given in the article.
- e12e 1y ago
  I think it's pretty clear that the criminal complaint is over genocide, not flying flags at a festival. But flying a flag makes identification easier?
  - Jtsummers 1y ago
    > But flying a flag makes identification easier? Almost certainly. US DOD actively discourages carrying identifying items while traveling for exactly that reason.
- mrow84 1y ago
  > The case emerged on July 20, when both organizations filed a complaint with the Belgian federal prosecutor against two members of the Israeli army’s Givati Brigade who were attending the Tomorrowland music festival with their military flags. > The complaint accused them of direct involvement in war crimes and acts potentially constituting genocide in Gaza — specifically, indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas, torture, and forced displacement. Seems pretty clear?

mindslight 1y ago

Arresting and questioning people associated with criminal enterprises has long been a staple of police work. And tangentially it's the kind of thing we need more of rather than the easy answer of pervasive surveillance.

GordonS 1y ago

The article could have been clearer, but it does mention the Hind Rajab Foundation is involved, an NGO dedicated to building war crimes cases against individuals for illegal actions in Gaza and the West Bank. An incredible number of such vile individuals have recorded and published videos and publicly boasted about themselves and their companions undertaking war crimes.

uoaei 1y ago

> The complaint accused them of direct involvement in war crimes and acts potentially constituting genocide in Gaza — specifically, indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas, torture, and forced displacement. TFA

e12e 1y ago

As I understand it, a non-profit submitted a specific complaint, and the prosecutor started an investigation: > The Hind Rajab Foundation’s strategy focuses on targeting individual soldiers, especially dual nationals or those traveling to countries with universal jurisdiction provisions. Since its establishment in September 2024, the foundation has worked with legal partners to gather documentation — including videos and images taken during the soldiers’ service in Gaza — and file cases in multiple countries, including France, the Netherlands, Brazil, and the UK. I don't think it would be surprising for such evidence to be enough to warrant investigation and questioning - but perhaps not enough for holding in custody until a trial.

spwa4 1y ago
It would be surprising because the people of the foundation are terrorist supporters (for certain), or actual terrorists (not proven) The founders of the foundation, Dyab Abou Jahjah and Karim Hassoun, are known to campaign and provide material support to Hezbollah - a terrorist organization. Diab Abou Jahjah actually went to Lebanon and may have actually participated in Hezbollah operations - he declared his intent to do so in the newspaper before leaving, but was not so stupid as to confirm it afterwards. So there is no proof he actually fought for them. It IS proven that he transferred money to Hezbollah and collected money from others for Hezbollah (which is by the way a war crime, in case that convinces anyone. Knowingly supporting terrorist organizations, which he did, is a war crime) Socialists in Belgium protect especially Mr. Jahjah because he's been part of a Belgian communist party for a long time. Of course, that doesn't change what he did. But it would still be VERY surprising that any court would take any complaint about terrorism from a terrorist supporter, from a person who left for a war zone declaring his intent to become a terrorist in the newspaper, seriously. Especially given other problems with people who did that, and the fact that the Belgian police force is, and I'm putting it very mildly, not particularly well suited or interested in fighting a foreign war ... Of course, this would be pretty typical strategy for the PVDA. Making legal complaints that are so absurd there's zero chance any court will do anything, then "pointing out" how unfair the justice system is and how it will always protect the capitalists (previously usually represented by OpenVLD, but more recently by the NVA). It's probably a decade ago, but they sued a hotel chain for refusing to convert a central hotel in Antwerp into social housing for free, and then made a big fuss when the court said what amounted to "WTF?".

NomDePlum 1y ago

What would be terrible about the precedent if it was them being IDF? Being part of an organisation that has collectively carried out war crimes, genocide and ethnic cleansing arrest seems like a reasonable action.

nashashmi 1y ago

The way the US works, the entire body of IRGC staff are sanctioned. Meaning it is possible to blame everyone in the IDF as a perpetrator for the actions of some because the rest of IDF won’t be prosecuting them