4 ms·

That's what's so incredibly stupid about the tariffs, immigration crackdowns, etc. Life is not a zero-sum game, and treating it like it is just makes it worse f

That's what's so incredibly stupid about the tariffs, immigration crackdowns, etc. Life is not a zero-sum game, and treating it like it is just makes it worse for everyone - unless you're the sort of person who really gets off on having other suffer worse than you.

AyyWS 1y ago
What society or culture survived by taking the high road? I'm reminded of Princess Leia's quote: No! Alderaan is peaceful, we have no weapons.
- mejutoco 1y ago
  Norway s sovereign fund seems like one instance.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  Life isn't a sci-fi movie.
- ben_w 1y ago
  The high (moral) road doesn't preclude self-defence, it precludes sadism and zero-sum thinking.
- throwawayoldie 1y ago
  Switzerland.
- rightbyte 1y ago
  Well weapons wouldn't have helped them either.
munificent 1y ago
A group of people who all agree that life is not a zero-sum game and cooperate effectively based on that premise will be very efficient, productive, and outcompete other groups. They are also a honeypot begging to be exploited by bad actors for whom life is a zero-sum game. Once a critical mass of those asshats show up, all of the trust that led to the greater efficiency and productivity breaks down. Greater trust between good actors is efficient but opens the door to free riders. Lower trust is inefficient but handles bad actors. I think basically all of human history is a meandering line around this unstable equilibrium of trust.
- QuercusMax 1y ago
  Basically: assholes ruin things for everyone.
  - throwawayoldie 1y ago
    I think you just wrote the epitaph for the human race.
    - nehal3m 1y ago
      Maybe we should have written that on the Voyager Golden Record, although anyone capable of picking it up and deciphering it would have probably already avoided the scenario that doomed us.
      - throwawayoldie 1y ago
        "Third planet of this Class G star dominated by psychotic tool-using apes. Stay away."
Terr_ 1y ago
It's less that they "get off on" suffering (though I'm sure some do) and more that they believe some conclusions: 1. The universe simply does not permit an arrangement of humans that isn't a hierarchy of exploitation and suffering. 2. There is a "natural" hierarchy which is also a just one, where good people deserve to exploit and bad people deserve to suffer, and of course I'm not one of the bad people. ("Just-world fallacy.") 3. Anyone who says don't need to build a Torment Nexus for anyone is a sneaky liar trying to trick their way upwards into a layer in the hierarchy they don't "deserve." So it's not as simple as sadism or greed, they'll tolerate some being stepped-on as long as they've been convinced that the "right people" doing the stepping and the bad people are getting stepped on more. A relevant free ebook from 2006: https://theauthoritarians.org https://theauthoritarians.org
- rightbyte 1y ago
  Sure but there is some sort of grayscale.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

AyyWS 1y ago

What society or culture survived by taking the high road? I'm reminded of Princess Leia's quote: No! Alderaan is peaceful, we have no weapons.

mejutoco 1y ago
Norway s sovereign fund seems like one instance.
alistairSH 1y ago
Life isn't a sci-fi movie.
ben_w 1y ago
The high (moral) road doesn't preclude self-defence, it precludes sadism and zero-sum thinking.
throwawayoldie 1y ago
Switzerland.
rightbyte 1y ago
Well weapons wouldn't have helped them either.

munificent 1y ago

A group of people who all agree that life is not a zero-sum game and cooperate effectively based on that premise will be very efficient, productive, and outcompete other groups. They are also a honeypot begging to be exploited by bad actors for whom life is a zero-sum game. Once a critical mass of those asshats show up, all of the trust that led to the greater efficiency and productivity breaks down. Greater trust between good actors is efficient but opens the door to free riders. Lower trust is inefficient but handles bad actors. I think basically all of human history is a meandering line around this unstable equilibrium of trust.

QuercusMax 1y ago
Basically: assholes ruin things for everyone.
- throwawayoldie 1y ago
  I think you just wrote the epitaph for the human race.
  - nehal3m 1y ago
    Maybe we should have written that on the Voyager Golden Record, although anyone capable of picking it up and deciphering it would have probably already avoided the scenario that doomed us.
    - throwawayoldie 1y ago
      "Third planet of this Class G star dominated by psychotic tool-using apes. Stay away."

Terr_ 1y ago

It's less that they "get off on" suffering (though I'm sure some do) and more that they believe some conclusions: 1. The universe simply does not permit an arrangement of humans that isn't a hierarchy of exploitation and suffering. 2. There is a "natural" hierarchy which is also a just one, where good people deserve to exploit and bad people deserve to suffer, and of course I'm not one of the bad people. ("Just-world fallacy.") 3. Anyone who says don't need to build a Torment Nexus for anyone is a sneaky liar trying to trick their way upwards into a layer in the hierarchy they don't "deserve." So it's not as simple as sadism or greed, they'll tolerate some being stepped-on as long as they've been convinced that the "right people" doing the stepping and the bad people are getting stepped on more. A relevant free ebook from 2006: https://theauthoritarians.org https://theauthoritarians.org

rightbyte 1y ago
Sure but there is some sort of grayscale.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]