7 ms·

Why I'm Leaving NixOS After a Year?

40 points by kugurerdem 1y ago

amelius 1y ago
Working with sandboxed/containerized/nixos stuff is like eating with chopsticks, except you are holding the chopsticks with another set of chopsticks. For a brief moment it is interesting, then it becomes a nuisance, and soon it is even painful to watch others do it.
- lylejantzi3rd 1y ago
  What would make it more pleasant?
  - ChocolateGod 1y ago
    I'd say adopting JSON/YAML.
    - q3k 1y ago
      What? No! Nix-the-language certainly isn't great, but there's nothing better about JSON/YAML in this role. The whole point of Nix is that it's a programming language that allows you to build abstractions in the language itself, not just pure data.
    - koiueo 1y ago
      I rarely downvote on HN, but when I do, it must be a comment promoting JSON over any other configuration language (sorry) Nix isn't even that arcane. Its documentation simply sucks. Once you grasp the idea, it feels almost great
      - q3k 1y ago
        > Nix isn't even that arcane. It's somewhat quirky though :) https://nixos.wiki/wiki/Nix_Language_Quirks https://nixos.wiki/wiki/Nix_Language_Quirks https://md.darmstadt.ccc.de/xtNP7JuIQ5iNW1FjuhUccw https://md.darmstadt.ccc.de/xtNP7JuIQ5iNW1FjuhUccw (but then again, what language isn't...)
        lylejantzi3rd 1y ago
        Why not just use BASH or Python?
        q3k 1y ago
        The fundamental basis of Nix is that it's a purely functional programming language without side effects. The whole thing breaks apart otherwise. And with a purpose-specific programming language, there's some big quality of life things (for example, low friction multiline strings with interpolation, the ability to use dashes in identifiers for package names, ...). (and, when you can do without side effects, functional programming is really simple and productive!)
      - nerdix 1y ago
        To be fair,the Nix code in a very simple config probably looks like some weird JSON like derivative to a layman because of how brackets heavy the language is. I could see someone glancing over a tutorial and thinking "they should just use JSON instead of their own custom data format" without realizing that Nix is a functional programming language.
    - chriswarbo 1y ago
      Nix has supported JSON derivations for years, e.g. using commands like `nix derivation show` (I have Emacs configured to run that on any `/nix/store/foo.drv` file I open). It still serialises to ATerm on disk, to avoid breaking existing hashes; which I think is reasonable. If you mean the programming language used to generate those derivations, then I have no idea what that would even look like; some horrific bastardisation like https://github.com/gliese1337/json-lisp https://github.com/gliese1337/json-lisp ? PS: I I found that json-lisp project with a quick search for a LISP-like language that used JSON instead of s-expressions. I like how its README says "Due to the excessive cumbersomeness of writing code in JSON, it is expected that most applications of this library will use it for interpreting auto-generated code of some sort, or API calls, or config files.". If we used that to generate Nix derivations, then we'd want a third* language to generate the json-lisp that generates the derivations ;)
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
splitbrain 1y ago
I only got started with NixOS a couple of weeks ago and I must agree. I would never consider running Nix on my daily Desktop machine (I'm using Arch BTW). It's more work and hassle than it's worth it. OTOH I just set it up as the base for my new DIY NAS. There it is limited to just the bare minimum of bringing the system up and providing some core services (including Samba). And for this I found Nix' declarative approach quite good. I can easily restore the root system from the backed up config alone. Everything else will be handled by Docker compose stacks outside the Nix eco system (stored on the RAID). https://www.splitbrain.org/blog/2025-08/03-diy_nas_on_nixos https://www.splitbrain.org/blog/2025-08/03-diy_nas_on_nixos
- nextos 1y ago
  Can you elaborate on what were the friction points? I migrated from Arch to Nix several years back because I found maintenance to be incredibly easy and it also allows me to test things without fear. Arch and other imperative distros are still superior for some workflows, but you can always run something imperative inside Nix like FHSEnv or DistroBox. Nix is also available in Arch extra, so it's also possible to do this the other way round, with Arch as a host.
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    For me (recent NixOS user), it's mainly two things: - for every configuration item in the software I use, I basically need to learn the way to NixOS-configure it (assuming I don't want to raw-configure everything) - experimentation is onerous (unless there are workflows I don't know), for example: messing with my sway config requires rebuild switches I'm not bailing (yet?) but the "ergonomics", well, don't feel ergonomic.
    - rkomorn 1y ago
      Oh, and the NixOS / HomeManager split feels very funky, but NixOS life without HomeManager seems unreasonable for a daily driver laptop.
      - 1y ago
papascrubs 1y ago
Better fix your about page ;) I've dabbled in NixOS and come to many of the same conclusions. The learning and troubleshooting overhead just isn't there yet (for me). I appreciate the concept and I do think declarative configurations do have a place in the near future, especially in corporate environments. I'll probably give it another go in a year or so to see if it's gained any more polish.
- kugurerdem 1y ago
  Oh! Thanks for reminding me that :)
alyandon 1y ago
I had a similar experience with NixOS and eventually gave up. I liked the idea of NixOS but I do lots of weird things off the beaten path and was constantly troubleshooting why things wouldn't work. For me, building/running environments in containers is the least amount of friction.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Ericson2314 1y ago
The leaky abstraction argument is itself leakly. Yes, it would be nice if we weren't putting lipstick on a Unix pig, but Nix never promised the underlying thing wasn't Unix. It sounds to me like he is moving the goalposts. If he wanted to run a bunch of shitty precompiled binaries from NPM for work, I would simply create a normie Ubuntu container or whatever and use that. There is no reason one's personal configuration should have to kowtow to such work things — it's probably better to have that sort of work-life separation anyways.
- q3k 1y ago
  Right, the problem is that this leaky abstraction effectively now requires you're both good at Nix and good at fixing whatever tool it is that is refusing to work with Nix. That usually means diving deep into build systems, code that makes wrong assumptions, and probably other hairy topics. In return you do get a state of the art system, but you very often need to put in work you otherwise wouldn't need to. I don't mind that because that's how my brain is wired, but there's plenty of people who don't give a shit and Just Want Things To Work Out Of The Box. Nix(OS) is certainly not for everyone.
  - soraminazuki 1y ago
    I don't see what the problem is. What Nix is doing is far more transparent than the article's preferred solution of Docker images. While Docker images are entire distros crammed into a binary blob, Nix derivations are inspectable and customizable. Nix uses standard mechanisms to configure software, like config files and environment variables. It really isn't black magic. Also contrary to popular opinion, Nix configs are actually easier to comprehend and maintain than configs written in Chef, Ansible, or Kubernetes. Having a proper language for describing large and complex pure data helps.
dmart 1y ago
I like Nix but I think the current model of reinventing a new set of declarative configuration settings for each package is fundamentally misguided and will not scale in the long term (look at the number of program-specific options in Home Manager for example). The nice thing about container-based systems is that all the existing documentation for configuring a given program continues to apply as expected. Of course the tricky part is figuring out how to compose them together.
- koiueo 1y ago
  > will not scale in the long term I first learned about Nix about 10 years ago. And back then I thought exactly this – it can't scale. But I'm pleased to be proven wrong.
koiueo 1y ago
There once was a post "The curse of Nix", or something like that, with the main idea that Nix isn't perfect, but once you tried it, everything else seems even worse. For the first six months of using NixOS I couldn't run anything but a browser (I'm exaggerating a bit), yet all attempts to get back to Arch failed for me. Now it's been over 4 years of having NixOS on all my computers, from Laptops to ARM SoCs driving my speakers. And so far I've no desire to try anything else. Moreover, when I was looking for new a NAS, I specifically picked a model allowing me to run an OS of my choice – so alien and unappealing seemed to me the concept of configuring things not through Nix. To each their own. But the curse of Nix is a real thing. And if the OP doesn't try at least running Nix on Arch, I'd say, he just doesn't appreciate Nix benefits in the first place.
- woleium 1y ago
  which nas did you pick?
  - koiueo 1y ago
    Some recent Asustor model with 2×3.5" bays and 4×nvme slots. Probably 6702, but can't verify right now.
    - woleium 1y ago
      ty!
photios 1y ago
NixOS is amazing on a server and utterly terrible on the desktop. I learned the latter the hard way too.
- q3k 1y ago
  To each their own, I'm quite happy running NixOS on all my desktop/laptop machines (for probably 7 years now?) - and I know I'm not the only one.
- tylergetsay 1y ago
  I killed my laptop, since my config is all nix I was back online in less than an hour on a new machine
CapsAdmin 1y ago
I've been using it for a few years now and I still feel a little confused, but asking llms explain nixos has been immensely helpful. If I'm feeling really lazy, I just ask claude to generate the specific nix code for whatever I need that doesn't work or exist in nixpkgs.
- woleium 1y ago
  Yes, nix + LLM solves all the issues i had with it.
Cu3PO42 1y ago
For me, my computer is a tool that I need to just work. Therefore I understand the frustration of occasionally fighting Nix to get things to work right. For the same reason, I don't think I will ever move off of Nix again. Once something works, it works reproducibly. I can always go back to a known-good state if I break something. This gives me freedom to experiment that I would otherwise not permit myself for fear of breaking an important workflow.
yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
When I started using NixOS, I intended to ease into it very gently by running just the barest nix config on the host but actually doing all of my meaningful work in distrobox containers. Hilariously, in my case I ended up accidentally going whole hog and putting almost everything directly in the host NixOS system, but I still fully endorse my original plan: NixOS host and system configuration, but every application you can goes in flatpak and all dev work is in distrobox. Best of both worlds.
sbt567 1y ago
I'm just starting my second attempt at using NixOS last week because suddenly, my SSD failed and I have limited amount of time to configure my second laptop to get to work. This time I don't think that installing Arch will be the best choice to get to the last state of my laptop as fast as possible (I'm using dotfiles management, but not all things can be automated). And I'm ready to try NixOS again. The only thing that makes me confident this time, is that I can use LLM to help me. There is absolutely no way I could try Nix again without using LLM. The first attempt at using it just makes me anxious because of docs alone. And what makes me stick using it? Nix-ld. I think embracing impureness and doing things incrementally will help alleviate the vertical learning curve that is Nix. After all of this learning curve? I finally can see the rainbow that I can only dreamed of in the past.
happens 1y ago
I daily drive NixOS, and while I initially had the same experience I've settled on some workflows that basically allow me to run anything with minimal maintenance. I think it's a problem that many tutorials and example configs you find online are very verbose and propose complex patterns, when you don't really need that much for it to be useful. There is still a learning curve, but you don't need to write a modularized configuration framework if you just want some machines with synced config and apps. I've written about my workflow here [1], but haven't published it anywhere yet. Not sure how useful this is to other people. [1] https://happens.lol/blog/how-to-nixos-insane/ https://happens.lol/blog/how-to-nixos-insane/
arvigeus 1y ago
I keep wondering why NixOS and few exotic distributions are the only ones that offer declarative configurations. Something like Ansible, but more like Nix.
pablo1107 1y ago
Late to the party but just read your article and I share a lot of the struggle you said. I don't know if I can fix that by just going back to Arch. I've tried, with different levels of success, a mix between Arch and Nix, but that adds another issue of inter-compatibility of system packages between Arch and Nix which often it's a no-go. The thing I enjoy the most on NixOS is the ability to make something, then remove it if I don't need it and don't have to worry about config files that are in an unknown-to-me path. But then there is the stateful aspect of the programs I used that I have to keep track of...

40 points by kugurerdem 1y ago

Working with sandboxed/containerized/nixos stuff is like eating with chopsticks, except you are holding the chopsticks with another set of chopsticks. For a brief moment it is interesting, then it becomes a nuisance, and soon it is even painful to watch others do it.

lylejantzi3rd 1y ago
What would make it more pleasant?
- ChocolateGod 1y ago
  I'd say adopting JSON/YAML.
  - q3k 1y ago
    What? No! Nix-the-language certainly isn't great, but there's nothing better about JSON/YAML in this role. The whole point of Nix is that it's a programming language that allows you to build abstractions in the language itself, not just pure data.
  - koiueo 1y ago
    I rarely downvote on HN, but when I do, it must be a comment promoting JSON over any other configuration language (sorry) Nix isn't even that arcane. Its documentation simply sucks. Once you grasp the idea, it feels almost great
    - q3k 1y ago
      > Nix isn't even that arcane. It's somewhat quirky though :) https://nixos.wiki/wiki/Nix_Language_Quirks https://nixos.wiki/wiki/Nix_Language_Quirks https://md.darmstadt.ccc.de/xtNP7JuIQ5iNW1FjuhUccw https://md.darmstadt.ccc.de/xtNP7JuIQ5iNW1FjuhUccw (but then again, what language isn't...)
      - lylejantzi3rd 1y ago
        Why not just use BASH or Python?
        q3k 1y ago
        The fundamental basis of Nix is that it's a purely functional programming language without side effects. The whole thing breaks apart otherwise. And with a purpose-specific programming language, there's some big quality of life things (for example, low friction multiline strings with interpolation, the ability to use dashes in identifiers for package names, ...). (and, when you can do without side effects, functional programming is really simple and productive!)
    - nerdix 1y ago
      To be fair,the Nix code in a very simple config probably looks like some weird JSON like derivative to a layman because of how brackets heavy the language is. I could see someone glancing over a tutorial and thinking "they should just use JSON instead of their own custom data format" without realizing that Nix is a functional programming language.
  - chriswarbo 1y ago
    Nix has supported JSON derivations for years, e.g. using commands like `nix derivation show` (I have Emacs configured to run that on any `/nix/store/foo.drv` file I open). It still serialises to ATerm on disk, to avoid breaking existing hashes; which I think is reasonable. If you mean the programming language used to generate those derivations, then I have no idea what that would even look like; some horrific bastardisation like https://github.com/gliese1337/json-lisp https://github.com/gliese1337/json-lisp ? PS: I I found that json-lisp project with a quick search for a LISP-like language that used JSON instead of s-expressions. I like how its README says "Due to the excessive cumbersomeness of writing code in JSON, it is expected that most applications of this library will use it for interpreting auto-generated code of some sort, or API calls, or config files.". If we used that to generate Nix derivations, then we'd want a third* language to generate the json-lisp that generates the derivations ;)
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

splitbrain 1y ago

I only got started with NixOS a couple of weeks ago and I must agree. I would never consider running Nix on my daily Desktop machine (I'm using Arch BTW). It's more work and hassle than it's worth it. OTOH I just set it up as the base for my new DIY NAS. There it is limited to just the bare minimum of bringing the system up and providing some core services (including Samba). And for this I found Nix' declarative approach quite good. I can easily restore the root system from the backed up config alone. Everything else will be handled by Docker compose stacks outside the Nix eco system (stored on the RAID). https://www.splitbrain.org/blog/2025-08/03-diy_nas_on_nixos https://www.splitbrain.org/blog/2025-08/03-diy_nas_on_nixos

nextos 1y ago
Can you elaborate on what were the friction points? I migrated from Arch to Nix several years back because I found maintenance to be incredibly easy and it also allows me to test things without fear. Arch and other imperative distros are still superior for some workflows, but you can always run something imperative inside Nix like FHSEnv or DistroBox. Nix is also available in Arch extra, so it's also possible to do this the other way round, with Arch as a host.
- rkomorn 1y ago
  For me (recent NixOS user), it's mainly two things: - for every configuration item in the software I use, I basically need to learn the way to NixOS-configure it (assuming I don't want to raw-configure everything) - experimentation is onerous (unless there are workflows I don't know), for example: messing with my sway config requires rebuild switches I'm not bailing (yet?) but the "ergonomics", well, don't feel ergonomic.
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    Oh, and the NixOS / HomeManager split feels very funky, but NixOS life without HomeManager seems unreasonable for a daily driver laptop.
    - 1y ago

papascrubs 1y ago

Better fix your about page ;) I've dabbled in NixOS and come to many of the same conclusions. The learning and troubleshooting overhead just isn't there yet (for me). I appreciate the concept and I do think declarative configurations do have a place in the near future, especially in corporate environments. I'll probably give it another go in a year or so to see if it's gained any more polish.

kugurerdem 1y ago
Oh! Thanks for reminding me that :)

alyandon 1y ago

I had a similar experience with NixOS and eventually gave up. I liked the idea of NixOS but I do lots of weird things off the beaten path and was constantly troubleshooting why things wouldn't work. For me, building/running environments in containers is the least amount of friction.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

Ericson2314 1y ago

The leaky abstraction argument is itself leakly. Yes, it would be nice if we weren't putting lipstick on a Unix pig, but Nix never promised the underlying thing wasn't Unix. It sounds to me like he is moving the goalposts. If he wanted to run a bunch of shitty precompiled binaries from NPM for work, I would simply create a normie Ubuntu container or whatever and use that. There is no reason one's personal configuration should have to kowtow to such work things — it's probably better to have that sort of work-life separation anyways.

q3k 1y ago
Right, the problem is that this leaky abstraction effectively now requires you're both good at Nix and good at fixing whatever tool it is that is refusing to work with Nix. That usually means diving deep into build systems, code that makes wrong assumptions, and probably other hairy topics. In return you do get a state of the art system, but you very often need to put in work you otherwise wouldn't need to. I don't mind that because that's how my brain is wired, but there's plenty of people who don't give a shit and Just Want Things To Work Out Of The Box. Nix(OS) is certainly not for everyone.
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  I don't see what the problem is. What Nix is doing is far more transparent than the article's preferred solution of Docker images. While Docker images are entire distros crammed into a binary blob, Nix derivations are inspectable and customizable. Nix uses standard mechanisms to configure software, like config files and environment variables. It really isn't black magic. Also contrary to popular opinion, Nix configs are actually easier to comprehend and maintain than configs written in Chef, Ansible, or Kubernetes. Having a proper language for describing large and complex pure data helps.

dmart 1y ago

I like Nix but I think the current model of reinventing a new set of declarative configuration settings for each package is fundamentally misguided and will not scale in the long term (look at the number of program-specific options in Home Manager for example). The nice thing about container-based systems is that all the existing documentation for configuring a given program continues to apply as expected. Of course the tricky part is figuring out how to compose them together.

koiueo 1y ago
> will not scale in the long term I first learned about Nix about 10 years ago. And back then I thought exactly this – it can't scale. But I'm pleased to be proven wrong.

koiueo 1y ago

There once was a post "The curse of Nix", or something like that, with the main idea that Nix isn't perfect, but once you tried it, everything else seems even worse. For the first six months of using NixOS I couldn't run anything but a browser (I'm exaggerating a bit), yet all attempts to get back to Arch failed for me. Now it's been over 4 years of having NixOS on all my computers, from Laptops to ARM SoCs driving my speakers. And so far I've no desire to try anything else. Moreover, when I was looking for new a NAS, I specifically picked a model allowing me to run an OS of my choice – so alien and unappealing seemed to me the concept of configuring things not through Nix. To each their own. But the curse of Nix is a real thing. And if the OP doesn't try at least running Nix on Arch, I'd say, he just doesn't appreciate Nix benefits in the first place.

woleium 1y ago
which nas did you pick?
- koiueo 1y ago
  Some recent Asustor model with 2×3.5" bays and 4×nvme slots. Probably 6702, but can't verify right now.
  - woleium 1y ago
    ty!

photios 1y ago

NixOS is amazing on a server and utterly terrible on the desktop. I learned the latter the hard way too.

q3k 1y ago
To each their own, I'm quite happy running NixOS on all my desktop/laptop machines (for probably 7 years now?) - and I know I'm not the only one.
tylergetsay 1y ago
I killed my laptop, since my config is all nix I was back online in less than an hour on a new machine

CapsAdmin 1y ago

I've been using it for a few years now and I still feel a little confused, but asking llms explain nixos has been immensely helpful. If I'm feeling really lazy, I just ask claude to generate the specific nix code for whatever I need that doesn't work or exist in nixpkgs.

woleium 1y ago
Yes, nix + LLM solves all the issues i had with it.

Cu3PO42 1y ago

For me, my computer is a tool that I need to just work. Therefore I understand the frustration of occasionally fighting Nix to get things to work right. For the same reason, I don't think I will ever move off of Nix again. Once something works, it works reproducibly. I can always go back to a known-good state if I break something. This gives me freedom to experiment that I would otherwise not permit myself for fear of breaking an important workflow.

yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago

When I started using NixOS, I intended to ease into it very gently by running just the barest nix config on the host but actually doing all of my meaningful work in distrobox containers. Hilariously, in my case I ended up accidentally going whole hog and putting almost everything directly in the host NixOS system, but I still fully endorse my original plan: NixOS host and system configuration, but every application you can goes in flatpak and all dev work is in distrobox. Best of both worlds.

sbt567 1y ago

I'm just starting my second attempt at using NixOS last week because suddenly, my SSD failed and I have limited amount of time to configure my second laptop to get to work. This time I don't think that installing Arch will be the best choice to get to the last state of my laptop as fast as possible (I'm using dotfiles management, but not all things can be automated). And I'm ready to try NixOS again. The only thing that makes me confident this time, is that I can use LLM to help me. There is absolutely no way I could try Nix again without using LLM. The first attempt at using it just makes me anxious because of docs alone. And what makes me stick using it? Nix-ld. I think embracing impureness and doing things incrementally will help alleviate the vertical learning curve that is Nix. After all of this learning curve? I finally can see the rainbow that I can only dreamed of in the past.

happens 1y ago

I daily drive NixOS, and while I initially had the same experience I've settled on some workflows that basically allow me to run anything with minimal maintenance. I think it's a problem that many tutorials and example configs you find online are very verbose and propose complex patterns, when you don't really need that much for it to be useful. There is still a learning curve, but you don't need to write a modularized configuration framework if you just want some machines with synced config and apps. I've written about my workflow here [1], but haven't published it anywhere yet. Not sure how useful this is to other people. [1] https://happens.lol/blog/how-to-nixos-insane/ https://happens.lol/blog/how-to-nixos-insane/

arvigeus 1y ago

I keep wondering why NixOS and few exotic distributions are the only ones that offer declarative configurations. Something like Ansible, but more like Nix.

pablo1107 1y ago

Late to the party but just read your article and I share a lot of the struggle you said. I don't know if I can fix that by just going back to Arch. I've tried, with different levels of success, a mix between Arch and Nix, but that adds another issue of inter-compatibility of system packages between Arch and Nix which often it's a no-go. The thing I enjoy the most on NixOS is the ability to make something, then remove it if I don't need it and don't have to worry about config files that are in an unknown-to-me path. But then there is the stateful aspect of the programs I used that I have to keep track of...