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I disagree with this. High stress environment, already with an alcohol and spending problem (super high interest car loans etc) that in this case: the machines

I disagree with this. High stress environment, already with an alcohol and spending problem (super high interest car loans etc) that in this case: the machines need to go. But that also challenges a broader trend in games of chance proliferating. In some places, small businesses are pushing hard to allow them to put them in their businesses because they make money. Gambling is one of those places where I draw the line about freedom of choice and disposition. It's too easy to lose everything, and get suckered in to lose more. It needs stronger regulation because the House never loses, and people who can't control themselves suffer.

hdgvhicv 1y ago
You draw the line there. Others draw it at alcohol. Others at pornography. That’s fine. There should be limits on freedom.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  I suppose you're being ironic, but I think most scholars have (unironically) said as much. Obv. example, yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie house. In most of the cases you mentioned we all wish that people were better people — showed some self-control. (Might as well add fire-arms to your list as well.) And hoping that all people can behave with all out interests in mind, we give people those freedoms (as we do) and then the rest of us are left to endlessly grouse about how fucked up our society is because of those people and their poor choices. So how do you win? Some people have concluded that we might, as a society, actually be better off without "Thing X" as one of our freedoms. I'm willing to entertain those arguments.
  - __s 1y ago
    & it's fair to regulate these. Nobody cares about regulating free slots with no reward, or Balatro I don't want PornHub ads on billboards & commercials I was at a bar, coming out of the bathroom I walked into a wall. They stopped serving me alcohol. I went to the liquor store after & they refused to sell me a bottle of jaeger since I wasn't walking straight. The casino won't stop serving you games until you're broke or winning
    - hdgvhicv 1y ago
      I do t want alcohol adverts on billboards. I do t want adverts for cars either.
- lupusreal 1y ago
  The individual liberty argument for gambling being legal might have some merit, maybe. Personally I don't buy it, but I don't think people who disagree with me are necessarily unreasonable. What's completely beyond the pale for me is the government actually promoting it. Unconscionable evil.
doublerabbit 1y ago
"When the fun stops, stop" That was the UK gambling advertisement reaching out to addicts. There is no fun when you're addict.
- busssard 1y ago
  this carries value into many regions of life, from relationships, work and video games.
- butlike 1y ago
  Which, ironically, is when it's at the threshold of 'not possible to stop.'
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
grues-dinner 1y ago
Gambling is an evil business and everyone willingly involved in peddling it should be exiled from society one way or the other. FOBTs are especially streamlined. Everyone in the business knows exactly what they are doing. That said, the same applies to lots of things: drugs almost literally, but also porn and porn-adjacent services are obvious brain-hacks, but also food, drink and even shopping are frequently structured in such a way to capture business through non-consensual manipulation of the human mind. None of it is new: people have been losing their shirts, homes, families and lives to most of the above since before money existed, but technology-wielding capital isn't exactly freeing us from it, but instead has optimised it. Sure, it's freedom, but it's freedom of both predator and prey.
- butlike 1y ago
  Gambling is the only vice where the store conceivably never closes; you can make a bet out of _anything_.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
__s 1y ago
In the Year 2525 hypnotism has been confirmed. Brain protheics have amplified the effect for anyone who can afford it. With a healthy diet & conscious focus the effects can be warded off, so regulators want to wait & see if the market can solve hypnotism abuse For the past 6 weeks I have stayed in & meditated, as last time I went out I broke my focus between taking a sip of beer & getting distracted hearing Heart of Glass, & in a moment of weakness someone in the crowd convinced me to buy everyone a round & leave a fat tip. Next time I'll have to try harder to stay focused
immibis 1y ago
Hot take: Gambling is fine. Gambling with important money isn't. If people were somehow limited to gambling up to $10 per day, it wouldn't be a problem. Or if people were gambling with RuneScape gold coins (and not trading real money for gold coins).

hdgvhicv 1y ago

You draw the line there. Others draw it at alcohol. Others at pornography. That’s fine. There should be limits on freedom.

JKCalhoun 1y ago
I suppose you're being ironic, but I think most scholars have (unironically) said as much. Obv. example, yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie house. In most of the cases you mentioned we all wish that people were better people — showed some self-control. (Might as well add fire-arms to your list as well.) And hoping that all people can behave with all out interests in mind, we give people those freedoms (as we do) and then the rest of us are left to endlessly grouse about how fucked up our society is because of those people and their poor choices. So how do you win? Some people have concluded that we might, as a society, actually be better off without "Thing X" as one of our freedoms. I'm willing to entertain those arguments.
- __s 1y ago
  & it's fair to regulate these. Nobody cares about regulating free slots with no reward, or Balatro I don't want PornHub ads on billboards & commercials I was at a bar, coming out of the bathroom I walked into a wall. They stopped serving me alcohol. I went to the liquor store after & they refused to sell me a bottle of jaeger since I wasn't walking straight. The casino won't stop serving you games until you're broke or winning
  - hdgvhicv 1y ago
    I do t want alcohol adverts on billboards. I do t want adverts for cars either.
lupusreal 1y ago
The individual liberty argument for gambling being legal might have some merit, maybe. Personally I don't buy it, but I don't think people who disagree with me are necessarily unreasonable. What's completely beyond the pale for me is the government actually promoting it. Unconscionable evil.

doublerabbit 1y ago

"When the fun stops, stop" That was the UK gambling advertisement reaching out to addicts. There is no fun when you're addict.

busssard 1y ago
this carries value into many regions of life, from relationships, work and video games.
butlike 1y ago
Which, ironically, is when it's at the threshold of 'not possible to stop.'
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

grues-dinner 1y ago

Gambling is an evil business and everyone willingly involved in peddling it should be exiled from society one way or the other. FOBTs are especially streamlined. Everyone in the business knows exactly what they are doing. That said, the same applies to lots of things: drugs almost literally, but also porn and porn-adjacent services are obvious brain-hacks, but also food, drink and even shopping are frequently structured in such a way to capture business through non-consensual manipulation of the human mind. None of it is new: people have been losing their shirts, homes, families and lives to most of the above since before money existed, but technology-wielding capital isn't exactly freeing us from it, but instead has optimised it. Sure, it's freedom, but it's freedom of both predator and prey.

butlike 1y ago
Gambling is the only vice where the store conceivably never closes; you can make a bet out of _anything_.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

__s 1y ago

In the Year 2525 hypnotism has been confirmed. Brain protheics have amplified the effect for anyone who can afford it. With a healthy diet & conscious focus the effects can be warded off, so regulators want to wait & see if the market can solve hypnotism abuse For the past 6 weeks I have stayed in & meditated, as last time I went out I broke my focus between taking a sip of beer & getting distracted hearing Heart of Glass, & in a moment of weakness someone in the crowd convinced me to buy everyone a round & leave a fat tip. Next time I'll have to try harder to stay focused

immibis 1y ago

Hot take: Gambling is fine. Gambling with important money isn't. If people were somehow limited to gambling up to $10 per day, it wouldn't be a problem. Or if people were gambling with RuneScape gold coins (and not trading real money for gold coins).