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Yes the “good hitler years” were a lie and so are all the “effective dictators” And the fact that no one just assumes that is weird. In general, let’s imagine

Yes the “good hitler years” were a lie and so are all the “effective dictators” And the fact that no one just assumes that is weird. In general, let’s imagine you had a politician who took power of a country that was recovering, and then by the time they left power their country was a literal pile of rubble and they shot themselves and their family in the head in order to avoid the consequences of their own actions… you’d assume that any positive story about them is probably bullshit. But for some reason the moment it’s Hitler everyone’s got an excuse. And if someone accidentally killed 6 million of their own citizens we’d naturally all recognize them as one of the worst politicians in human history, but for some reason when they kill 6 million of their own citizens on purpose it’s not a raucous failure that deserves endless ridicule.

msgodel 1y ago
Not that Hitler is an example of one but there is actually a long history of good dictators. Remember the original dictatorships in Rome were time boxed (among other things) to overcome crises. England had a similar idea in the form of its protectorates. I don't like everything Cromwell did for example but he absolutely was a dictator in all but name.
- goopypoop 1y ago
  What things that Cromwell did do you like?
_zagj 1y ago
Lee Kuan Yew (whom the late polymath and Berkshire vice chairman Charlie Munger greatly admired) and Park Chung Hee are two examples that quickly come to mind. I distrust technocrats and dislike dictators, but pretending every dictatorship has been a disaster for its people is short-sighted.
- golem14 1y ago
  Does China today qualify as dictatorship? I think that’s an interesting question with probably no simple correct answer.
  - golem14 1y ago
    Also: originally, “dictator" was a magistrate appointed to hold sole power for a limited time during emergencies. This original, Roman sense of the word did not carry the negative connotations it has today.
    - ralfd 1y ago
      The Greek Tyrannis is often fitting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant > A tyrant (from Ancient Greek τύραννος (túrannos) 'absolute ruler'), in the modern English usage of the word, is an absolute ruler who is unrestrained by law, or one who has usurped a legitimate ruler's sovereignty. Often portrayed as cruel, tyrants may defend their positions by resorting to repressive means.[1][2] The original Greek term meant an absolute sovereign who came to power without constitutional right
  - _zagj 1y ago
    > Does China today qualify as dictatorship? It has many of the aspects of one, like authoritarianism and centralized control, which arguably could, in the right hands, yield superior outcomes. For example, being able to undertake and complete large infrastructures projects in an ambitious timeframe that would be strangled by political opposition (like NIMBYism or environmental objections) and bureaucratic red tape in the west. Munger was, unsurprisingly, also a fan of China's system. Again, I'm not a fan of these systems, but pretending they always yield inferior outcomes is dangerous for western democracies, as it could lead to an underestimation of our rivals.
somenameforme 1y ago
Search for "90s in Russia." [1] 20+ years under Putin's control brought it from that back to an undisputed superpower. Benevolent and effective dictatorship is probably the most effective form of government in terms of producing results. The problem is that when you end up with self centered, incompetent, or malicious dictators (all which somehow often go together at all at once) it's also the most effective form of government in terms of collapsing countries. The same is true all the way back to the Ancient Empires which were also usually ruled by dictators. The era of Marcus Aurelius was an absolute Golden Age in Rome. Yet the era of his son all but ensured the collapse of Rome. Of course the same is becoming increasingly true of democracies where political messaging has become effective enough to regularly make people vote in highly irrational ways. [1] - https://search.brave.com/search?q=90s+in+russia https://search.brave.com/search?q=90s+in+russia
- protocolture 1y ago
  Are these the same russians that tow their aircraft carrier around. They have a very shit time projecting power across their border, let alone across the ocean.
- kyralis 1y ago
  "Undisputed superpower"? That seems like a stretch for a description of modern Russia. Outside of having a stockpile of nukes, does anyone actually think that modern Russia is a superpower, with a failed space program, a flailing military, and rather questionable economy? It's not exactly a bastion of political power, either, beyond a rallying point for "nations who hate the US/west" or "nations who can take advantage of its power economic position to their own advantage and don't care about US opinions" (India), neither of which are really an indication of innate power for Russia. Honestly, regression to the mean is a stronger explanation here than "benevolent and effective dictatorship".
- philistine 1y ago
  It is ridiculous to state that Putin made Russia great again. Russia, by all economic metrics, is moribund. By social metrics, the birth rate is one of the worst in the world and they don't even have the privilege of dealing with the problems of massive immigration because no one wants to move there. By military metrics, it can't even fucking beat its weaker neighbour without devolving to outdated meat-grinder tactics with drones sprinkled on top. Putin does that because he's collectively punishing the military for failing the initial invasion. Russia can't even have a functioning civil society because everyone is too scared to do anything for fear of upsetting the regime. I'm flabbergasted that you look at 2025 Russia and consider the word undisputed apt. How ... narrow-minded.
immibis 1y ago
Correction: 6 million were the Jews killed in the Holocaust. Hitler killed 11 million people in the Holocaust, and another 70+ million people in the war.

msgodel 1y ago

Not that Hitler is an example of one but there is actually a long history of good dictators. Remember the original dictatorships in Rome were time boxed (among other things) to overcome crises. England had a similar idea in the form of its protectorates. I don't like everything Cromwell did for example but he absolutely was a dictator in all but name.

goopypoop 1y ago
What things that Cromwell did do you like?

_zagj 1y ago

Lee Kuan Yew (whom the late polymath and Berkshire vice chairman Charlie Munger greatly admired) and Park Chung Hee are two examples that quickly come to mind. I distrust technocrats and dislike dictators, but pretending every dictatorship has been a disaster for its people is short-sighted.

golem14 1y ago
Does China today qualify as dictatorship? I think that’s an interesting question with probably no simple correct answer.
- golem14 1y ago
  Also: originally, “dictator" was a magistrate appointed to hold sole power for a limited time during emergencies. This original, Roman sense of the word did not carry the negative connotations it has today.
  - ralfd 1y ago
    The Greek Tyrannis is often fitting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant > A tyrant (from Ancient Greek τύραννος (túrannos) 'absolute ruler'), in the modern English usage of the word, is an absolute ruler who is unrestrained by law, or one who has usurped a legitimate ruler's sovereignty. Often portrayed as cruel, tyrants may defend their positions by resorting to repressive means.[1][2] The original Greek term meant an absolute sovereign who came to power without constitutional right
- _zagj 1y ago
  > Does China today qualify as dictatorship? It has many of the aspects of one, like authoritarianism and centralized control, which arguably could, in the right hands, yield superior outcomes. For example, being able to undertake and complete large infrastructures projects in an ambitious timeframe that would be strangled by political opposition (like NIMBYism or environmental objections) and bureaucratic red tape in the west. Munger was, unsurprisingly, also a fan of China's system. Again, I'm not a fan of these systems, but pretending they always yield inferior outcomes is dangerous for western democracies, as it could lead to an underestimation of our rivals.

somenameforme 1y ago

Search for "90s in Russia." [1] 20+ years under Putin's control brought it from that back to an undisputed superpower. Benevolent and effective dictatorship is probably the most effective form of government in terms of producing results. The problem is that when you end up with self centered, incompetent, or malicious dictators (all which somehow often go together at all at once) it's also the most effective form of government in terms of collapsing countries. The same is true all the way back to the Ancient Empires which were also usually ruled by dictators. The era of Marcus Aurelius was an absolute Golden Age in Rome. Yet the era of his son all but ensured the collapse of Rome. Of course the same is becoming increasingly true of democracies where political messaging has become effective enough to regularly make people vote in highly irrational ways. [1] - https://search.brave.com/search?q=90s+in+russia https://search.brave.com/search?q=90s+in+russia

protocolture 1y ago
Are these the same russians that tow their aircraft carrier around. They have a very shit time projecting power across their border, let alone across the ocean.
kyralis 1y ago
"Undisputed superpower"? That seems like a stretch for a description of modern Russia. Outside of having a stockpile of nukes, does anyone actually think that modern Russia is a superpower, with a failed space program, a flailing military, and rather questionable economy? It's not exactly a bastion of political power, either, beyond a rallying point for "nations who hate the US/west" or "nations who can take advantage of its power economic position to their own advantage and don't care about US opinions" (India), neither of which are really an indication of innate power for Russia. Honestly, regression to the mean is a stronger explanation here than "benevolent and effective dictatorship".
philistine 1y ago
It is ridiculous to state that Putin made Russia great again. Russia, by all economic metrics, is moribund. By social metrics, the birth rate is one of the worst in the world and they don't even have the privilege of dealing with the problems of massive immigration because no one wants to move there. By military metrics, it can't even fucking beat its weaker neighbour without devolving to outdated meat-grinder tactics with drones sprinkled on top. Putin does that because he's collectively punishing the military for failing the initial invasion. Russia can't even have a functioning civil society because everyone is too scared to do anything for fear of upsetting the regime. I'm flabbergasted that you look at 2025 Russia and consider the word undisputed apt. How ... narrow-minded.

immibis 1y ago

Correction: 6 million were the Jews killed in the Holocaust. Hitler killed 11 million people in the Holocaust, and another 70+ million people in the war.